It's just ridicioulous to see how consoles are taking more and more (mostily negative) effect on games

[quote][quote]

[quote]The decision to go with 6 vs. 6 was made a long time ago, it was a product of multiple meetings, development ideas and strategies on a game design level. These people have years and years of Games Industry experience behind them, this qualifies them to uniquely decide game balance issues and what is best for our community. Once you play Crysis 2 MP, you will see that it isn't a matter of the quantity of players, more so the quality. The action is fast paced, frantic and furious. You will never be short of a target to lay a whole clip into. If that's your idea of sharp shooting

To those that feel let down by our decision to make Crysis 2 multi-platform, all I can say is that at no point will we 'water down' the quality that you would expect from Crytek or the games we make. As a primarily PC gamer I can honestly understand that you feel as if we would be releasing 'console ports', yet this simply isn't the case. If anything, the PC community will get the very best version simply by enabling users to customize their graphical experience. Both the Xbox360 and PS3 will run at 720p, whereas the PC version should support much larger resolutions. The game-play and visual quality of Crysis 2 will blow everyone away, this same quality will be continued throughout all versions on all platforms.[/quote]

I'm worried about there being no usable vehicles. That's a deal breaker for me, and I won't be buying Crysis 2 unless I can use the same vehicles in it's multiplayer as there are in Crysis Wars. Tanks, VTOL's, Choppers, and Jeeps are a must for me, without those this game is a no go. Also need to be able to edit the PC version to house 32 players, and need some huge maps as seen in Crysis Wars, if these are also not present this game is a no go.[/quote]

I never realized why someone would want vtols and stuff, could someone explain?[/quote]

When vehicles are properly balanced, they can GREATLY improve gameplay experience.

Thanks for the hearted responses Lee.

However no matter how much you say 6on6 and no vehicles is great, it's simply NOT what Crysis is.

Some of us don't just want to empty .50 cals into people, some of us also want the tank shells and bombing raids dropping onto a decemated city. Imagine a bombing run on a city with procedural destruction! Unrealistic at todays hardware, but one can dream.

Anyway Lee, I look forward to seeing how 6on6 works on the beta. I still think that just 8on8 would make it better without too much developer work needed.

[quote]The decision to go with 6 vs. 6 was made a long time ago, it was a product of multiple meetings, development ideas and strategies on a game design level. These people have years and years of Games Industry experience behind them, this qualifies them to uniquely decide game balance issues and what is best for our community. Once you play Crysis 2 MP, you will see that it isn't a matter of the quantity of players, more so the quality. The action is fast paced, frantic and furious. You will never be short of a target to lay a whole clip into. If that's your idea of sharp shooting

To those that feel let down by our decision to make Crysis 2 multi-platform, all I can say is that at no point will we 'water down' the quality that you would expect from Crytek or the games we make. As a primarily PC gamer I can honestly understand that you feel as if we would be releasing 'console ports', yet this simply isn't the case. If anything, the PC community will get the very best version simply by enabling users to customize their graphical experience. Both the Xbox360 and PS3 will run at 720p, whereas the PC version should support much larger resolutions. The game-play and visual quality of Crysis 2 will blow everyone away, this same quality will be continued throughout all versions on all platforms.[/quote]

I certainly appreciate the input, but to me this reads "months ago we decided to make concessions for the consoles also reflect on the PC, sorry guys. I'm a PC gamer too, so if I was in your shoes I'd be freaking out too BUT THE PC VERSION WILL STILL LOOK THE BEST, THAT ALL WE'D LIKE TO THINK YOU WORRY ABOUT"

1) Of course the PC version looks the best, even if you made no effort to change the graphic fidelity/options there would be hardware/community there to do it for you
2) 12 man cap assumedly exists because
a) limitations of a console or
b) you guys have terrible net code
Obviously we already know the answer to this, and we understand the console people are okay with it, thats fine. the fact remains is that PC servers have been CAPABLE of running 30+ clients on a server as a standard, and now it's being taken out.

Finally, to the console people out there, the only reason people feel animosity towards it being sent to consoles is because a lot of features are being taken out to allow for that.
Fake/fantastical example: they are releasing a new Halo for PS3/360 and Wii. YAy right? well, they want to cater to every system, they just want a one size fits all and just figured they put the Wii version out on PS3 and 360, even though they are far more capable systems, GRAPHICALLY IT WILL LOOK THE BEST, but when it comes to things like Enemy AI, number of 'characters' on the screen, level size, number of people in a multiplayer game, etc. you suffer the Wii limitations. Now pretend your 360/ps3 is the Wii and the PC is the higher end console...

If you were in that situation don't tell me you wouldn't be disappointed.

cry lee rules!!!!

[quote]The decision to go with 6 vs. 6 was made a long time ago, it was a product of multiple meetings, development ideas and strategies on a game design level. These people have years and years of Games Industry experience behind them, this qualifies them to uniquely decide game balance issues and what is best for our community. Once you play Crysis 2 MP, you will see that it isn't a matter of the quantity of players, more so the quality. The action is fast paced, frantic and furious. You will never be short of a target to lay a whole clip into. If that's your idea of sharp shooting

To those that feel let down by our decision to make Crysis 2 multi-platform, all I can say is that at no point will we 'water down' the quality that you would expect from Crytek or the games we make. As a primarily PC gamer I can honestly understand that you feel as if we would be releasing 'console ports', yet this simply isn't the case. If anything, the PC community will get the very best version simply by enabling users to customize their graphical experience. Both the Xbox360 and PS3 will run at 720p, whereas the PC version should support much larger resolutions. The game-play and visual quality of Crysis 2 will blow everyone away, this same quality will be continued throughout all versions on all platforms.[/quote]

Okay.. But even if the gameplay is good, how can you bring back all those players who have decided nit to buy the game? Even if the gameplay's good, it won't be fun if there is no one to play with.

I mean, look at the size of the forum community. It is TINY. Please respond, I am getting pretty tired of Crytek's unresponsiveness.

^Look The game community is going to be bigger then that of Crysis and Crysis Wars. People looking for a great overall FPS game will go to it. I already know a lot of people who will buy this on Xbox and Ps3 who want to experience this game.

As a whole I say the graphics on a console with Crysis 2 is the best if not one of the best.
I think this will be a big game. Choosing to go on consoles will boost the community for the game and in the end, I think it will make this series alot whole as a community of PC, PS3 and Xbox gamers.

Just wait closer to launch and brows will be raised and games will be preordered. I know it.

Also that Dog Tag idea has alot of my buddies already loving it, ingenious.

[quote]
As a whole I say the graphics on a console with Crysis 2 is the best if not one of the best.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is arguing it won't look great on consoles, and as lee said it will look better on PC's (provided said PC can support it)

And yes, of course they want to bring it to consoles to expand the community/customer/fan base, that's the whole idea!
A lot of PC users are just concerned because they don't want to lose out on things that were in previous versions because of it.

I dont care about increasing the community...
The price, pc players have to pay for it is just too high.

Consoles are babytoys compared to what PCs can do.

And that is what Crysis 2 will be. Reduced for consolescasualgamers.

Consoleshooters just svck.,. ive played nearly all that were called the best. From Resistance 1,2 to Killzone 2..etc... its just boring crap for me.
Theyre more linear and scriptet than a book!

Crysis 1 will always be the superior game. Never releaseablle on actual consoles. Crysis 2 will be casual standard console junk compared to the original. Dont call it Crysis only because of a cheap version of the nanosuit thats in it. Because it has almost nothing to do with his predecessor.

And dont blame me for having my own opinion.

[quote]I dont care about increasing the community...
The price, pc players have to pay for it is just too high.

Consoles are babytoys compared to what PCs can do.

And that is what Crysis 2 will be. Reduced for consolescasualgamers.

Consoleshooters just svck.,. ive played nearly all that were called the best. From Resistance 1,2 to Killzone 2..etc... its just boring crap for me.
Theyre more linear and scriptet than a book!

Crysis 1 will always be the superior game. Never releaseablle on actual consoles. Crysis 2 will be casual standard console junk compared to the original. Dont call it Crysis only because of a cheap version of the nanosuit thats in it. Because it has almost nothing to do with his predecessor.

And dont blame me for having my own opinion.[/quote]

Agreed

[quote]And dont blame me for having my own opinion.[/quote]

No problems here. That's an acceptable approach to getting your thoughts across. I can appreciate your passion towards your thoughts and the self control to put it across in a decent fashion

To respond to some points, however, Crytek care greatly about increasing the community, reaching new people and exposing their game to a ten-fold larger audience.

Consider for a moment that although MP may have been refined/streamlined compared to the original, the SP is still very strong, even stronger than it's predecessor and the SP is a huge part in the grand scheme of things.

[quote][quote]And dont blame me for having my own opinion.[/quote]

No problems here. That's an acceptable approach to getting your thoughts across. I can appreciate your passion towards your thoughts and the self control to put it across in a decent fashion

To respond to some points, however, Crytek care greatly about increasing the community, reaching new people and exposing their game to a ten-fold larger audience.

Consider for a moment that although MP may have been refined/streamlined compared to the original, the SP is still very strong, even stronger than it's predecessor and the SP is a huge part in the grand scheme of things.[/quote]

^This. Your judging the whole game of its mp. We've hardly seen anything of the sp yet other than about 5 mins of alpha gameplay.

Well... Can you think about atleast raising the player count to 8on8 and then add some humvees on the larger maps? And make the class system more unique? Its a complete ripoff from Call of Duty. =/

And yes, the Singleplayer looks good, but the multiplayer needs some major work.

[quote]^This. Your judging the whole game of its mp. We've hardly seen anything of the sp yet other than about 5 mins of alpha gameplay.[/quote]

That's because no one is really concerned with the SP, and the SP being a single player experience, only has so much replay value. For a game like this, I consider it's staying power is in the multi-player experience, and that's why a lot of people have concerns in regards to it.
Some people care mostly about the SP experience, some care more about the MP experience, so of course they are going to address their concerns accordingly.

Personally, I have no concerns about the SP experience, I expect it to be relatively similar to what we've had in the past, the concerns are regarding the MP game, and how thats being heavily modified. Of course, these are just general statements there are certainly other people concerned (or not concerned at all, for that matter.) about other things in the community

Obviously different people apply different weights to different factors in purchase decisions. The only thing that strikes me as odd is that people seem to want a clone of Crysis Warhead and Wars, instead of Crysis 2, which by nature SHOULD be a new experience. Obviously, if you just can't fathom playing small tactical multiplayer, then that may be a turnoff, but it doesn't make it a bad format by nature. Merely different than the current format. Worst case, wait til a friend buys the game, and try it on their machine/console. Seems to me that Crytek wouldn't just intentionally release a bad product that noone wants. The stockholders wouldn't allow this. Basically, it boils down to either trusting or not trusting a studio that so far has done nothing but amazing things. If they find a format that keeps people interested, or increases the CryEngine market share, obviously, they'll go with it.

TL:DR Don't ask for a sequel to be a clone with a new engine, play it or wait for footage before judging it, and expect Crytek not to svck.

[quote]TL:DR Don't ask for a sequel to be a clone with a new engine, play it or wait for footage before judging it, and expect Crytek not to svck.[/quote]

I don't think people are necessarily arguing for a clone, no one is sitting here complaining about stealth kills or armor customization or anything like that, in this specific thread/instance its in regards to the amount of people in a multiplayer game
The complaints stem from things being removed from the game, which appear to only to be changed or remove to accomodate consoles. for example, for an FPS putting a cap of 12 players in a multiplayer game seems alien and silly. Having PC gamers suffer the shortcomings of the PC just doesnt seem fair. console players may be used to these lower standards, some of us aren't

You could argue 'well not everyone would be able to handle more than 12 people in a game w/ their computer'
Great, thats why there is a huge list of dedicated server to choose from of varying sizes and rules!

Personally, I'm not saying they need to cater their maps and mutliplayer to more people, if all they wanna do is make 12 person maps they are welcome to be my guest, but the option should be there for more players to be in the game if one desires.
(one of the reasons being custom maps, which won't be catered to consoles, if thats even going to be an option.)

Well, if they release the new sandbox, custom content may well be possible for the other systems, seeing as they've made sandbox a cross platform 1 size dev tool.

As to player limits, sure it could be frustrating, but until we actually play the maps, how do you know if it will affect pace? Frankly, I think any MP match over about 16 people with less than 3 teams is cluttered, regardless of maps.

And lack of vehicles... well, if you expect to see a hummer parked in the Rooftop Gardens map (note the word Rooftop)... wellll guess what. That makes no sense. Until we see all the maps and gamestyles, whining makes no sense. And if the maps are all laid out in a manner you don't NEED vehicles, then adding them screws balance.

Edit as best I can: Basically, if you want a vehicle combat game, play a vehicle combat game.

If you want a driving game, buy a driving game.

If you want a supersuit and machine guns, buy Crysis 2.

Vehicles take away from the Nanosuit by being a cooler toy. You shouldn't have a cooler toy than the primary gameplay mechanic as a major, constant feature, it detracts from the intended gameplay.

[quote] Frankly, I think any MP match over about 16 people with less than 3 teams is cluttered, regardless of maps.

And lack of vehicles...[/quote]

I'm sorry you haven't been able to enjoy 2 team maps with over 16 people, there are a lot of games that offer this, and do it well, and games have been doing it well since QuakeWorld (over 12 years ago), so while you personally can't find enjoyment there, there are a large number of games and people that show they enjoy it, and the communities/games involved are always running large servers. We shouldn't have to suffer these constraints just because they exist on the console, if the tech is there to support it, which it is, then it should be there, just like it was in previous versions. If around 12 players per server was the rule and not the exception then obviously we'd hear less stink about it.
Map size has everything to do with how cluttered something can become, to say it otherwise is just factually untrue, just like how you make bigger buildings in reality to house more people, the same reasoning works in virtual space.

I don't mean to imply I wouldn't enjoy a smaller game either, I'm just merely stating that to go out of the way to make constraints when none are needed for PC seems silly, and the options for larger games should be there.

Personally, I've never cared about vehicles, I can take em or leave em and generally speaking if there are vehicles I let someone else worry about them. What I do care about is constraints being placed on a game when they don't need to be.
Calling vehicles a cooler toy than the nano suit is just plain wrong, especially now that you can customize it.

As to the large games, thats a personal opinion thing, not something I expect everyone else to agree with. Consider this though. If the map was, on the X and Y axes, the same size as say... a medium map in crysis, in New York City (which IS where the game is based remember), then we would be looking at an entire city block. This is a HUGE chunk of space in a large downtown metro environment when you carry it into multiple floors of buildings, and the actual number of people needed to make a game flow at all would move quickly towards the hundreds.

As to the Nanosuit vs Vehicles thing, I say "Cooler" in that in Crysis Wars, on the maps with the serious vehicles, they quickly become the rule, rather than the exception, and on the medium maps with one or two trucks, theyre a purely unnecesary gimmick, given speed mode. I only answer these two together because most people that seem to want large maps also want vehicles, which implies they prefer the vehicle mechanic to the nanosuit mechanic.

Mostly, while I understand people don't like the IDEA of the limit, most of them haven't experienced the implementation of the limit. A small game just means a more personal experience, instead of a giant impersonal heavy-weapon spamfest. While there is nothing wrong with the style of gameplay, I find it ridiculous to expect that gameplay out of a tactical shooter in an urban environment.

Basically, it boils down to this: I have no issue with anyone elses opinion on what makes good gameplay, but when you expect the Multiplayer to be unrelated to the singleplayer, maybe you should consider a different game. They've already hinted that they don't intend to screw the mod community, so expect to be able to have that kind of fun on modded servers. But noone should complain about the Multiplayer that comes out of the box actually resembling the singleplayer gameplay it comes from.

[quote]noone should complain about the Multiplayer that comes out of the box actually resembling the singleplayer gameplay it comes from.[/quote]

I guess my point mainly is why take away what already exists? Would it hinder the game at all? If it needs to be done to make MP workable on consoles why extend that to PC.
If the game is best with 12 people then it stands to reason most people would run servers at that player limit.
To add, while I don't care about them, I fully expect to see vehicles in the single player, as I also expect to see more than 11 AI on the screen at the same time. the single player experience in certain regards will be nothing like the multiplayer experience, and I'm okay with that as it's not supposed to be a 1:1 copy, I just don't see why a cap would need to be imposed on the PC player limit.
As for modding, it would be a 'wait and see' to see what the SDK would contain as to whether or not it would be to expand the player limit.

Vehicles don't become the rule, there guys who don't fly or drive vehicles at all because they are either not good at it, or they prefer to snipe/man to man combat. Vehicles merely become a tool and a mission within a mission.

While you're trying to get to a VTOL or a chopper, so are your enemies, you need to use your suit wisely to not be seen going to or near the vehicle, or to ambush another player going for the vehicle. Vehicles add another dimension to the game, they not only help accomplish a mission, but they add yet another level of excitement to the game, and as long as they are missing from Crysis 2, there is going to be a big void there that can't be filled by anything else the game has to offer.

Vehicles are a must.. I don't know about you, but the vehicles don't take anything away from my nano suit, it gets used non stop all game long.

So essentially, you expect Crytek to develop tons of extra maps that cater exclusively to the PC players even though they would offend the console players (who pay more for their copy) by doing so? Seems a vaguely silly notion. Also, lets take the minimum amount of ground in an urban environment for vehicles to really fit on the map. Roughly 2 city blocks at LEAST. In that amount of space, with tightly packed buildings, alleys, anywhere from 60-100 indoor rooms assuming mostly 1-2 story buildings, parking garages, and everything else, you would have a map roughly the same size as Quarry from Crysis Wars needing somewhere between 70-100 players to EVER encounter the other team.

Not exactly edited: Basically, its tons of extra man-hours and development money, all to make maps that take such an obscenely huge number of players that only a portion of servers would actually run the maps, with both consoles never even seeing it. Doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

[quote]So essentially, you expect Crytek to develop tons of extra maps that cater exclusively to the PC players even though they would offend the console players (who pay more for their copy) by doing so? Seems a vaguely silly notion. Also, lets take the minimum amount of ground in an urban environment for vehicles to really fit on the map. Roughly 2 city blocks at LEAST. In that amount of space, with tightly packed buildings, alleys, anywhere from 60-100 indoor rooms assuming mostly 1-2 story buildings, parking garages, and everything else, you would have a map roughly the same size as Quarry from Crysis Wars needing somewhere between 70-100 players to EVER encounter the other team.[/quote]

Who said it would only be for the PC?

I don't see why we couldn't atleast drive around some humvees, and maybe hang glider across the buildings if we wanted to. I think that would be pretty sick. Tanks and stuff would be hard to do though without a really large map, and the consoles don't have enough RAM to support large maps. Heck, the map Mesa takes up 1100MB of Ram, and the Windows OS takes another 1000MB, which totals around 2GB of RAM. The consoles only have 512MB for the entire system, which is why large maps are impossible to do.