Ummm well you do in Oblivion. And he attacked Morrowind too thousands of years ago, but Sotha Sil fought him off as I recall

That was only his aspect. The Daedric Princes can change their material forms whenever they want (most of the time.) Their real form has not been seen, so their personality is described as a a sphere.

Hence why the loading screens say "The oblivion crisis occurred 200 years ago, when Mehrunes Dagon tried to enter tamriel in his true, terrible, form."

They can change their form into whatever they want, yes. What I was saying is that we saw his main, physical form on Tamriel in Oblivion, and another time through an in-game book. That's all I meant. The ideal masters are apperently beyond corporeal manifestations altogether, but "communicate" through those gems. They may even just BE the soul cairn.

Fine, I'll change it to Sanguine. You've never seen him attack anything in his true, terrible form.

His true form isn't terrible, its fantastic.

I love how things get derailed... Haha but I have learned some interesting theories about the Ideal Masters... Thank you all who contributed...

Here's what my thoughts are after reading everyone's theories. The Ideal Masters are a different form of spiritual being, neither Aedra nor Daedra. So far we have seen no physical representation of them even in the Soul Cairne, but the giant gems in SC seem to be a link between the Ideal Masters and the plane. These gems had also appeared in Battlespire before so there is a connection between the gems and the Ideal Masters. The only thing left for debate is whether or not they are floating gems or if the gems are avatars or some form of physical connection to them.

They can't be that strong if they can't even take dragon souls. Wait dose thy mean they can't take your soul?

Dragons are the spiritual sons of Akatosh / Auri-El. Taking their souls would likely break some fundamental laws of the universe. Only a Dova can absorb another dova's soul. Not even the ideal masters can fully break this law.

Since you have a dragon's soul, the same rule likely applies. When the crystals use "soul drain" they're likely trying to steal your soul, but you probably just die like you would normally. The ideal masters can't "take" your soul either. This is of course speculation but it makes sense given the info we have.

I heard that the giant health-drainining gem things were just "conduits" that the truely formless Masters use to feed off souls and communicate with people.

One NPC (I think one of the souls) told me that the orbs that float around the Soul Carin are the Ideal Masters, and if you notice bonemen and wrathmen will always attack them as well.

That they could trap a Dov would make me think that they're pretty powerful.

I agree. it would make destroying them all the sweeter, if possible.

Sanguine never attacks anyone. He just pranks mortals.

I enjoyed both his Oblivion and Skyrim quests.

http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/tsobs_part03image13.jpg

This is what they looked like in Battlespire. I have the PC version so I have no idea about Dawnguard.

Have you seen him in Fellglow Keep? He's actually quite proficient at it.

Well since he's the daedric prince of hedonism, dark impulses, debauchery, addiction, and all that wonderful stuff, I'd say he's done his fair share of damage haha

The Ideal Masters are some sort of gem-like-beings that controls the Soul Cairn. (Don't know if they created it or not). In their eyes, they believe they are helping the lost souls, which are from Used Soul Gems, by placing them in the Soul Cairn and controlling them to a certain degree that they will not have to worry about duties, needs, and other stuff like that.. However, this truly tormented the souls instead of giving them peace. Like mentioned, they do dealings with souls and will end up tricking those they deal-with. They do like using the Undead as servants and guardians in the Soul Cairn, just in-case the place ever gets attacked. Lastly, The Ideal Masters has some sort of machine in the Soul Cairn that will teleport the user into any other realm/plane/etc BUT the user must know the name of that place!

That all I got from Battlespire and a bit from what I've seen in Dawnguard.

I assume there's some true name going on there - you have to say the exact "true" name of the place, you couldn't just say "Dagon's Deadlands" or "Shivering Isles" right?

I believe the Shivering Isles will work, actually. But I don't think Dagon's Deadlands will work.. I never rly played Battlespire so I never rly checked that little machine out.

Can you actually see them as gems in Soul Cairn ?

well we see awkward looking gems, if that counts =)

Floating or something ?

The ideal masters are bethesda

+1 LOL