For those who may have entered into the Soul Cairne during this expansion (I wouldn't call it a spoiler, as it was in the trailer even), I was wondering if anyone could help me collect a bit of lore... I have scoured all of the books I have found in Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind (I still play all three) and have not found any reference to the Ideal Masters mentioned in the Soul Cairne. Could somebody help me out here?

Some believe that the Ideal Masters are the structure thingies that absorb your power when you get near them are the Ideal Masters.

They were present in SC during the Events of Battlespire, they looked like "SimsGems", did they appear in Dawnguard, or are only mentioned ?

I join the question.

Gonna use spoilers so I don't get yelled at.



They seem pretty cool, kind of like sub-daedric lords.

They're the entities that rule The Soul Cairn. A pocket of Oblivion, considering the fact that literally have their own realm they must be considerably powerful, people commonly give them souls in exchange for power and they usually trick them in the end.

That about all we know.

Well, there's a couple of large Soul Gem looking things that drain your health when you get close.

They have a habit of chating with potential victim, so maybe thet little glowy things you mentioned aren't "Ideal" ? Ohhh to many lore speculation...

It's really all we can do unless it was some sort of foreshadowing to be expanded on in later DLC.

So what I am gathering from this is that there are theories but nobody knows for sure... Hmmm... Well as somebody who plays a Necromancer as his main character, this makes it a little difficult haha.

So my theory is:
That "things" are "Ideal Masters" but lesser type, not sentient, however that borns another question (that in the topic) What the Ideal Masters truely are ? I bet that they are some more powerfull Daedra (but not as powerfull as Daedric Prince) which were bound to this realm in smilar way like Durnhveiir (or something like that). But that is just my theory.

Nasty beings, that I hope sometime from now on will be obliterated.

In UESP it is said that you can see them in the DLC..

The ideal masters first appeared in Battlespire, as did the soul cairn. They dwell in oblivion, but likely aren't daedra. Remember that oblivion refers to all the space around Mundus, so there are likely tons of spirits and supernatural beings floating around there. These ones in particular seem incredibly powerful and advanced, but they have no motivation, goals, desires, bloodlust, or anything. All they want, all they think about, all that satisfies them is souls. It is very possible that they are somehow connected to black soul gems.

Can you see them in the game ?

Why... Nazi's of course.

I lol'd.

I shouted at that thing after retreating to a safe distance. I think if it was an Ideal Master I would've gotten at least a spanking for that insubordination.

the ideal masters are obviously the chickens in skyrim, it would explain why the nords get so angry when you attack them

Also lol worthy. Conspiracy? Maybe...

Would the Ideal Masters make me a Dovahbear?

I like to believe the Ideal masters is just another name for the 18th Daedric prince or the daedric prince of the undead.

Ideal masters are not singular beings they are in fact the plane of soul cairn.

That's a good point. Everything in the Elder Scrolls has at least 3 different names so that's a decent theory.

Daedric lords do have a physical appearance though, so the guy who said before that Ideal Masters in SC look like crystals might ruin that idea.

Smart idea, but life and death are the sphere of Arkay, undeath is the sphere of Molag Bal (for the sheer purpose of spiting Arkay). Daedra are also known to be very curious about mortals and love to meddle with them. If the ideal masters were daedra, they'd likely be far
more active in the lives of mortals. They also dont have any daedra as servants. I think the ideal masters are simply another spiritual entity. They're powerful, perhaps more powerful than daedra, but they desire nothing, and understand little beyond their insAtiable desire for souls.

And the giant soul gems are actually the physical link between motals and the ideal masters. Thats what Serana's mother says at least, and why the "attack" those gems use is called "soul drain"

I beleive that the giant floating soul gems are just the aspects of the Ideal Masters. Like the whole situation with the Daedric Princes. You never see the real form of Mehurenes Dagon Sanguine, just his aspect.