I would roll a Malkavian just to see if they have a good representation of the Malkavian Madness Network. The hijinks that could be pulled with a hivemind like that could be limitless.

Hehe, I wouldn't mind if you were though. You'd probably go the way of Troika rather quickly, but before that you might make some really good games. I'm all for more P&P mechanics and lore, as long as that part of the game is in order there'll always be some unofficial fan patch to take care of the bugs.

Not in oWoD. Auspex discipline is used to determine who's real vampire, and a Tremere rite is used to determine exact generation of a subject vampire. Potency is a new stat in Requiem.

Griefers are basically the lowest possible rung of people in an online game, who go out of their way to deliberately ruin the experience for other players. I remember playing in a beta years ago, there was a whole in-game guild of people who shared each other's account info and scheduled leveling, basically so that somebody was grinding the character 24/7, and not surprisingly they tended to have more high-level characters faster than anyone else. They did not participate in events, boss hunts, or other high-level game content. They used their advantage to bother other players, camping at the borders of PvP zones to kill anyone of any faction who was just passing through, and ran around using large area-effect abilities to wipe out all the enemies in low-level grinding areas. The enemies were too weak to provide them any benefit at all; they were just going out of their way to keep any new players from being able to actually play. Griefing appears in any multiplayer game, like Left 4 Dead, which revolves around a small team of 4 who rely on each other. Sometimes people will join the game and immediately kill teammates or themselves, leaving that game pretty much dead in the water and forcing players to try and join a new one. That's griefing, playing the game with the sole intent of making it less fun for others.

EVE Online's player-centric setup has advantages unique from other MMO's, but its weakness is that it's subsequently far more vulnerable to griefing. In EVE, players are behind pretty much everything; if you buy something in a store, it was likely made by a player, who probably made it from materials mined by other players. Enormous factions control equally enormous territories in space, own and built the space stations you visit, control security in the area, etc. Griefers are everywhere, though, because of the fact that players have relatively free reign to do whatever they want. So you constantly have to deal with people camping warp gates and indiscriminately targeting everyone, entering low-grade systems with high-end ships and strip mining them, despite this being far less profitable than other systems, just so that the weaker players have to wait for respawn, only to likely have it stolen again.

That's the fear with the player-centric system that CCP is aiming for with WoD. As soon as the players are given power, griefers are going to abuse it.

I haven't played EVE, it sounds like good game, but if there's a story, I couldn't find any. WoD is about intense storytelling, not intense pvping. I hope the dev understand that the same formula on EVE would not work on WoD, hell I can even asure you those who supported permadeath will soon start whining about griefers killing their long planned characters, then shift the blame to CCP for not regulating with GMs.

You voted a perilish path. You turned a WWS into EVE, not a name of its own.

Griefers don't just exist in MMOs. Back in 1999 when I played in New Bremen, WWS's official rp chatroom with 10s of storytellers regulating, we still had people who got sanctioned and started some meaningless combat with all excuses possible on others just for the sake of showing off his badass one shot combos. Under ST regulation, these stupid scenes could be nulled, but in a massive world like what CCP is doing, I don't see how I can enjoy it as WoD instead of EVE.

I understand using the word simple minded in my last post was the wrong word to use. Griefing more or less weeds out careless or younger audiances that are two trust worthy. EVE was never suposed to be a my little pony gane were you log on expected a day of care free enjoyment ,its a game af risks were you can lose everything, everyday. Its what also makes it so enjoyable to those who play it, knowing that thr choices you make could ruin someones elses day or yours truely gives you a "rush" either if the engagement was a fair fight or unfair. The previously mention griefing methods are mild to what happens in game. People attack miners in cheep high dps ships to suicide gank them, just for enjoyedment and sonetimes even contests. Jita the main market hub is always camped by suicide ganks and the destroy and steal billions of in game currancy everday from other players who are just trying to make a living moving stuff. Goons are well know to invite careless players into thier corp for 500 ill take em out into thier space kill them and steal everything. At first it sounds cruel, but as you spend more time in the universe you come accustomed to doing background checks on everyone you deal with in game. And believe it or not roleplays thrived in this game. Players formed corpirations gor each faction. Some play the anti pirate role figjting griefers labeling them as mentally unstable and enemies of thier gods. Some of them even became the largest forces in game.

ugh once again I appoligize for the grammar mistakes, my phone makesbit really hard to type.

Will WoD be the same? Will it encourage as much as eve remains be to be seen. But I can promise that CCP wouldnt make a game with darkness in its name and design it around the Hello Kitty MMOs out there.

I'd much rather play a Hello Kitty Pony mmo than a game where things like suicide griefing as you describe it are common. I don't think that even the WoD setting could keep me interested in a game like that.

Are you sure... ? Maybe I'm wrong.


Describe it however you want, it's just internet bullying, really, and it's even less justifiable in a gaming circumstance than it is IRL.


The WoD setting strictly discourages this kind of play via in-world rules that the Camarilla has set up. Unless CCP goes out of their way to make WoD, not WoD, I can't see these kinds of problems being nearly as prevalent as they are in EVE, exactly because of the rules that all vampires are supposed to follow.

I dont think that the freedom in EVE will work in WoD. But I think overall roleplayers will trump over griefers, in EVE though roleplayers have and they make up a small 10% of the community. But Ill be very surprised that if you are careless in WoD you wont be punished by other players. Hopefully people will learn from these mistakes and seek revenge.

I have been griefed in EVE, I lost 500 mill in one day from some random people was let in our corp. The CEO didnt do a background check and I payef for his mistake. However a year later when I was flying with a better group we came across the guy and we destroyed him in a ship that cost twice as much that he took from me. The best part was is that I did it lawfully and when he could actually defend himself. So I understand how painful griefing is, but I also stand how it adds another level to games that can actually increase the experience you get when you kill the "villian" thats a real human and not some AI.



Of course as I stated before WoD will be much different but you shouldnt fear griefers.

I'm pretty sure that that's the way it was explained in Bloodlines. I distinctly remember Auspex working like that for the player as well, the auras of supernatural creatures showing in a different colour from those of mortals. They may have changed that with the new P&P ruleset, but from what I've read about it on the White Wolf Wiki I very much prefer oWoD in pretty much everything, so for me that's the canon version. I may remember this incorrectly, as it's been a while since I've been reading about this and I probably didn't understand it back then either, but didn't they get rid of most of the clans in Vampire: The Requiem as well? No fun at all.

As for vampires in general recognizing each other, I always assumed that they do so by the pale skin and the pointy teeth, while both features are still inconspicuous enough to avoid drawing attention from the oblivious mortals. The Masquerade is a beautiful thing.

That is a very good, and reassuring point. Unless the game takes place in Sabbat territory of course.

I think the most common misconception is that people who enjoy WoD are those who enjoy the hardcoe pvp aspect of EVE. V:TM has a label at the back: for mature minds only. Griefing is definitely not within this category. You have stated well how EVE made itself a unique competitive environment to encourage player involvement through real social interactions instead of scripted narrations. It is in itself a very enjoyable form of gameplay, but know this, in any table top RPG books, the spirit of them is to have fun together, not through expense of others. Call it carebear or whatever you like, it's a mature theme of friends and family social game, not a badass game designed for [censored].

So you could see a powerful Prince who employs all sorts of ruthless method to eradicate his enemies, contracting assassinations, bringing down stock price of rival elder through deceptions and seductions. In the end he's just a loving mother with 2 kids and a happy family participating social works for her community.

I think I got a bit sidetracked. What I want to bring out is, character or player? Would player be penalized and discouraged by permadeath because she's unfamiliar with how to keyboard her way to pull out supercombos? Even though she pulled out incredible political influence and actions through character roleplay.

I wouldn't rule out the potential of the EVE play style, the result is still yet to be seen, perhap I might end up enjoying it a lot. It's only a concern. They are still in drawing board and I wouldn't expect more news before 2013. The EU finiancial difficulty (esp Iceland) might have impact on their progress.


Very much It is impolite to ask for generation of the vampire. It is also easy to notice the vampire's generation through their behaviours. There is also an interesting way to tell a youngling. If it is a Caitiff of thin blood, there is a possibility for him to develop unique disciplines of his own, meaning you could see powers unseen of. Camarilla calls it abomination, Sabbat calls it the sign of Gehenna, in either case these Caitiffs are likely hunted down, as pawns or simply as cannon fodders.

I can see how EVE play can be enjoyable, but I don't think the people who play WoD are going to be the people who play EVE. And it would be kind of dumb of CCP to cannibalise their own base to leverage a new product.


Ya, they threw out a lot of stuff, or shunted a lot of it to the background. Malkavians are just a footnote, for instance. The rules are a lot better, though. If I were in charge of making a WoD MMO, I'd use oWoD for the setting, and nWoD for the rules.





Exactly. And I'd be very surprised if they decided to ignore the P&P fanbase.

Only 5 clans left Daeva, Malkavian(spelling? It's different in nWoD), Nosferatu, Ventrue and Gangrel. They are pretty much just like 5 classes for you to choose from. They initially said the design philosophy was to balance out the powers of each clan, so they don't get cannoned into particular stereotypes and more freedom to define your character as who he/she is instead of what he/she is. They even ruled out the possibility of clanbooks, but in the end they published clanbooks for each of the clans anyway.


In the core book, they didn't emphasize appearance recognition. If appearance is that easy to spot out then every vampire is a masquerade breach first step you made into the street. There are however merits and flaws that could lead to easy recognition of your immortality, and of course the supernatural hideous outlook of Nosferatu. There is a skill in Guide to Camarilla that gave you a skill to represent how well you keep the masquerade. I personally find it a rather redundant. Just spend some blood points to play human. No dicerolling excuses.

Sabbat were nutjobs before Guide to Sabbat came out. That book defines Sabbat with more in depth structure for the sect. So in essense they'd became a "revolutionist" Camarilla, with far "less" elder manipulations. Sect memebers are somewhat more tied because of the Vinculum rite each and every of them have to go through (a literal blood bound to a coterie of vampires). There is no offiical masquerade for Sabbat, but they all understand if they would bear fangs to every camera they encountered, it only ends their unlives faster than the Camarilla.

Not that they don't believe in elders, in fact Sabbat consists of the two major elder clans the Lasombra and Tzimisce as major backbone among their powerplayers. It's just that, these elders know of the Gehenna and they do not hide it from their fredglings. They prepare their new bloods for the coming apocalpyse far more readily than the Camarilla, whom either disbelieve or dismiss any claims of the endtime.

I don't think this will be exactly like EVE. It wouldn't be world of darkness. I have no doubt i twill be player driven, but vastly different than EVE. There are some serious consequences to breaking the masquerade.

1. All vampires can and will basically track you down.
2. This means no support.
3. Hunters will find you much easier.
4. Now you have Vampires and Hunters after you.
5. Harder to recover and feed since your on the run.

Griefers would be akin to outlaws, only the most adaptable would survive. And even then its just a matter of time.

This seems interesting. CCP, the developer of EVE, one of the most infamously difficult to get into MMOs out there, are developing an MMO based on vampires (and from what I gather, the ever famous Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines?). Interesting indeed.

Edit: just as long as it doesn't effect my EVE.

Two different project teams, it shouldn't

Toreador-ish...


Without the crazy. That's not Malkavian.


Pretty much the same as they were in oWoD.


Basically as they were in oWoD.


Basically the same as in oWoD.

oWoD has the better flavour. It's not that I dislike nWoD. It's just that there are less options for the player to choose from. From this perspective, I'm glad they chose oWoD.

... I wonder how far out completion is?

Interesting stuff. I knew most of that about the Sabbat, but my first instinct is still to think of them as they are initially portrayed in Bloodlines, as a bunch of bloodthirsty hooligans. I didn't fully grasp Andrei's ideas on my first playthrough, maybe because I didn't know anything about the background lore. That's one of the things I liked about Redemption, you actually got to work with some Sabbat vampires.

The appearance recognition thing is interesting. Makes the world a lot more believable as well. It was very easy to tell Kine and Kindred apart based on appearances in Bloodlines.

My bet in 2014 for release.

Interesting fact, Sabbat didn't form until around 200 years before 1999. Camarilla was formed around Renassiance, and Sabbat came in just after Victorian Age. The book Victorian Age: Vampire details the intrigues Camarilla wished to hide while renegade vampires decided it's time to form the Sabbat.

In Dark Age: Vampire, both Lasombra and Tzimisce were high clans, the lords and nobles among the undeads. Each clan went on their own, each vampire was pretty much solitary monster just like classic Dracula. Common folks were supceptible to myths and superstition was so predominant, that Masquerade was rather unnecessary. The witch hunt occurred in Renassiance made them realize it's about time for them to lay low.

Oh. CCP is just producing then?

I think it's CCP NA that's developing WoD MMO, while CCP Iceland are developing Dust 514 and EVE. But I'm not too into CCP news so don't count on that.

I just read out White Wolf's merging with CCP. That certainly sounds interesting and promising for both companies. Still didn't really shed light on who's doing the developing though.

Wow that sounds very awesome, it'll create a good villian systrm in a way in which you are always on the run.

Did you guys hear about how they hired fashion designers for the costums? Thats going to craete some amazing cloths.



and yeah the NA team is making WoD, the EVE team is in iceland and the Dust team is in China.

As for release date I've heard 2014 dropped as a likely year. Though no really official word. Just speculation.