I've not finished the game, but I just became Archmage. I have to say I am a bit disappointed by it. Everything is the same as it was before. The hints that some members to experiments on people? Can't do anything about that or the black market there. The College's relationship with Winterhold and the rest of Skyrim? Nothing to be done there either. Heck, the only benefits I see are people say nice things about me at the college and I can use and grab stuff from the Archmage's quarters. Doesn't seem that impressive to me.

Also, it feels a bit funny that I was made Archmage. Just because some random dude from the Psyjic order said so and Tolfdir agreed? Seems a bit weak. I would have liked to have seen some sort of vote or something (perhaps with quests to win favor or the like from the heads of the various schools). Seems like you can become archmage with very little magical skill as well (though admittedly I had high levels generall, over 90 in conjuration and destruction and over 60 for the others). That seems a bit odd.

I know this isn't anything new for an Elder Scroll's game -- heck, or games in general -- but I still wish being the leader of the mages meant you could...you know...make some decisions about how they handle things. Even a few simple options would have been wonderful such as setting in motion better relations between Winterhold and the College (or the other way around depending on how you go). Mods can work with this sort of thing too, but they aren't going to have the same voice actors to work with.


Gotta say I am a little miffed about how people in general seem to not care about me being a dragonborn either. The mages don't find anything of much note about my shouts, guards somehow know more about my lockpicking skill than the fact I absorb the souls of dragons (you get one guess as to which has more witnessess), and even if I help out the city guards kill a dragon and absorb its soul, the Jarl doesn't seem to care. It makes it feel like dragonborns are pretty common at times -- I am sure during parts of the main quests that will be different, but that's just emphasizes the disconnect.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game overall. Only a few aspects bother me.

I dont know what experiments on people you are talking about.

Black Market? what black market?

Nords have hated magic for AGES, you cant expect yourself to just undo it with the wave of a hand.

The Psijjic order is the OLDEST monastic order on Tamriel, they are some of the oldest and most respected mages that have ever lived, they can make enitre islands dissapear. OFC Tolfdir would agree with them.

Also you could become arch mage in both Morrowind and Oblivion with little to none magic skill.

I agree the mages questline is very weak with you becoming archmage. So weak i regret acquiring the title and wish that one lady who was second to the arch mage didnt die and took over instead of me.

Heh. Mirabelle the Breton.... who basically told Ancano to sit on it and rotate when my toons first happened upon her. Yup, you go girl!

Same here. However, the Psijiics want a puppet they can easily control in charge of the Winterhold Mage's Guild, because they're elves like that.

The Psijjics dont really care what the mages do.

The mage who will arrange things for people even if they are against the rules. He specifically comments on working with "live specimens" (and since working with dogs would presumably be ok, I imagine he's talking about people...that's the implication). Edit: His name is Enthir.


Well, actually, it is stated more than once that the College used to be more respected and a bigger part of Skyrim in general. It was the Oblivion Crises and the sinking of most of Winterhold that caused the Nords to unjustly dislike mages. Not say they didn't always like warriors a lot more, mind you, but the lore clearly indicates that the relationship between the College and Skyrim is pretty close to the record low, so there's certainly room for improvement.


I'm not surprised Tolfdir agreed with them. On the other hand, it isn't Tolfdir's decision who is Archmage, now is it? Unless there's some secret "guy with the biggest and greyest beard decides who gets what job". I like the Psijic order too. That doesn't mean I think it makes sense exactly how becoming an archmage plays out. Especially since they basically just decided to grab the most powerful artifact on the planet -- might make some people in charge at Winterhold angry.


I know some of this stuff isn't new. That doesn't mean it is good or it couldn't be one of the things they improved this time around.

Typical of becoming a leader. We always have some number two to keep hold of everything while we get a few rewards. Before Tolfdir there was Pollus

We really dont have idea on what is allowed or not, live specimenas oculd refer to dogs, the only implication is your imaged one


Respected more =/= they were overly liked.


Tolfdir at the time was the higest ranking mage left, yes it was his decision.

They eat animals. They don't have a problem raising undead. Why exactly would animal experimentation be a problem? Doesn't really make any sense. On the other hand, there's a lot of talk about how almost anything short of killing other students used to be OK (and killing other students was only frowned upon). It's pretty clear he's talking about human experiments, especially given the context of the game in general (people who do experiments on sentients merely get kicked out of the college and do their work elsewhere).


Which is all the more reason why what they say could well be disregarded.


Technically, he AT BEST only had seniority. He's rank was the same as the heads of the other schools of magic. It is admittedly a bit unclear how things are run, but it seems odd that it would be "oldest guy makes all the rules".

Yeah, I wish she had lived too. Tolfdir and her were definitely two of my favorite people at the College.

For the same reason why humans eat animals yet doing andom experimanets on them is usally frowned upon.


What point are you trying to make, you seemed to have changed it.


Many old societies run on senioirty.

It isnt odd at all.

As far as I can tell, being archmage means getting the robe. Yes just that. Because there are no perks, no discounts, no hidden arcane secrets passed down from archmage to archmage, no decisions to make, no new students to enroll, no classes to teach and so on.

Infact, your room now respawns so slowly that NOT been the archmage serves you better in terms of getting ingredients and soul gems.

The archmage in Oblivion and Morrowind didnt get any real perks besides a room, no discouts, no secrets, no decisions to make, no new students to enroll, and no classes to teach.


Also as far as we know there is archamge secrets passed down, the only problem is that the archmage was killed before he oculd tell you.

I so wanted to loot savos aren's body but I couldn't.

Animal experiments are in fact NOT usually frowned upon if done properly. Even the idea of animal rights is generally new, and certainly not something that would be a big concern in world with values that are clearly dated like the Elder Scrolls (which is a somewhat dark fantasy setting). Again, there's plenty of talk about how other groups that did experiments on unwilling humans merely got kicked off campus as opposed to actually stopping them. People don't even seem that outraged over that.




Seems pretty clear. There's no particular reason why the opinions of an organization that largely stays out of all affairs and hasn't even been seen in 200 years would be closely listened to by the faculty of the college. Tolfdir is just about the only one that has a really, really high opinion of them. Sure they get respect for their power by everyone, but since they generally don't interfere with things at all and even then don't actually do combat, there's no reason to be that concerned about their opinions. Again, becoming an archmage should be something that gets discussed by the heads of the magic schools, not simply something tossed at you out of hand at the end of the quest chain when only one person is present, apparently based partly or wholly on the statements of an enigmatic figure from an organization that barely interacts with the world at all.


Guilds typically do not. There's also no evidence to suggest that is how the College of Winterhold is run. Otherwise Tolfdir probably would have been the Master Wizard already, yes? Again, this is just poorly done.

1. Yes properly done, which is minimal danger and harm to said animal.


2. Again there is a big reason, becuase the Psijjics are highly reveared even though they have been gone for 200 years. Also you were made head of the Mages Guild soley by the decision of the previous Arch-Mage, he didnt talk to anyone.


3. The Mage's Guild was. The leader dies, the 2nd in command takes over. In fact the guils in Morrowind and Oblivion were run that way.

I agree. They just need to stop making us the leader of every damn guild we join if the only difference between being a member and being the leader is a fancy title and a better room. Just give us a fancy title and a better room and have us be a high-ranking respected member though still not the leader.


That's just untrue. Out of Alchemy, Alteration, Destruction, Enchant, Illusion, and Mysticism you needed one skill at 90+ and two skills at 35+ to be able to become Arch-Mage in Morrowind. So you had to at least be a master of one of the schools of magic they practiced.

And becuase skill trainers had unlimited skill trains per level it was a useless requirement.

So you train under someone until you become a master at whatever, and that means you have little to no skill? The very fact that you trained up to master means you have that skill. What I originally replied to was just flat out wrong. It doesn't matter how you get the skill, you still needed it.

the journey is always more important then the ending.

The fact that you didnt have to work for it shows that the system was flawwed, that is why it was removed and skill trains per level was lockedback down

When checking to see if you meet skill requirements, the game does not have the ability to check your journey only the ending that you are at that very second. To become Arch-Mage in Morrowind you need 3 of the favored skills to be at certain levels; therefore, you were flat out wrong when you said "Also you could become arch mage in both Morrowind and Oblivion with little to none magic skill.".


You can keep trying to frame this in some way that if you squint right it may just look like you weren't wrong if you want. I mentioned nothing about the system being good, bad, perfect, flawed, whatever. I merely pointed out that you claimed something that is quite objectively wrong.

Except I wasnt wrong, getting a master trainer to train you =/= skill.

You keep tryign to frame a exploit as legitimate skill.

Getting a master to train your skill doesn't give you skill?

I can load up Morrowind right now and go pay a trainer. Guess what, after that my chosen skill will be x+1. I.E my characters skill has just gone up by one. That value will then be stored and, when necessary, checked against skill requirements. You will not fail a skill requirement just because a portion of the variable was trained by skill trainers.

You should.