Would orcs exist in a game like TES if it wasn't for Lord Of : Othor Games

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:43 am

You do know Elder Scrolls is older then the LotR films, and before that hardly anyone ever read the book. I highly doubt Elder Scrolls is based on the book at all.

You kidding me?!! Lord of the Rings trilogy is among the most successful books of all time. If it wasn't, the movies would not've even been made!

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:33 am

Elder Scrolls had Orcs before the cinematic trilogy.

However, Elder Scrolls fantasy and almost all high fantasy is based somewhat on Tolkien.

lol u do know that LOTR was written on paper many years like 20-30 years b4 it was made into a movie?

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:58 am

I believe so, the orcs in the Lord Of The Rings are more like the Elder Scrolls Goblins than it's Orcs.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:07 am

You do know Elder Scrolls is older then the LotR films, and before that hardly anyone ever read the book. I highly doubt Elder Scrolls is based on the book at all.

Did I just read that?! The Lord of the Rings was one of the most successful books in the middle of the last century, and if you haven't read it you should be ashamed.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:15 am

Did I just read that?! The Lord of the Rings was one of the most successful books in the middle of the last century, and if you haven't read it you should be ashamed.

I respect how important they are to High Fantasy, but they were utterly boring to me.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:04 am

LOL well i read the Lord of the rings many times before they even tought of it becoming a movie and i imagined orcs to be exactly what they are in TES.
tolkien was extremely descriptive in his writing and why he was so popular.

i doubt very much that any1 or a very few have even read the lord of the rings books - but D&D and TES wouldnt exist without tolkiens writings.
if u had read the book u wouldnt doubt it

» Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:01 pm

all modern fantasy owes their lives to Tolkien

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:31 am

yes

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:09 am

Lord of The Rings isn't the start of orcs, and Tolkien certainly didn't invent them, they've always been in myths and legends if you read up, just like goblins, ogres and trolls.

» Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:22 pm

Mabey not but he did start the description on what they look like, I cant visualise what they would like if it wasn't for him.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:20 am

I think orcs are the one race in LotR that isn't largely inspired by older folklore. They can more or less be credited entirely to Tolkien.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:25 am

Lord of The Rings isn't the start of orcs, and Tolkien certainly didn't invent them, they've always been in myths and legends if you read up, just like goblins, ogres and trolls.

I'm almost certain that Tolkien created orcs. I've never heard of any lore prior to Tokien that had orcs. Any definition you look up about orcs is credited to Tolkien as well. Another credit he can get sole credit on is mithril. ;P

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:18 am

Elder Scrolls had Orcs before the cinematic trilogy.

However, Elder Scrolls fantasy and almost all high fantasy is based somewhat on Tolkien.

But Orcs were still in the book which is years and years older than TES.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:29 am

Indeed.

Thirded

Tolkien didn't start calling them Orcs until he began to deepen the lore and create backstories. I'd say, being TES had it's origins in D&D, which was undoubtedly inspired by Tolkien's writings.
Which were inspired by folktales from various cultures. Which in turn, were parables for teaching the younger beings how to behave and make wise choices.
Which is still, a big part of gameplay.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:51 am

Just out of curosity. But would orcs exist without a cinematic trilogy like Lord Of The Rings, and would they look like that.

The guys here said it already: Orcs are created by Tolkien, before that Orcs never existed in any literature.
BTW if you're interested in Orcs, you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomorians
Orcs are based on the Formorians.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:22 am

In The Hobbit, orcs are called goblins, and the main thing about them in that book is their wars with the Dwarves. You get them in Scandanavian folklore, but they are not quite the same. Orcs as we know them in gaming come from LOTR through D&D (like lots of stuff is filtered through D&D into games) and it's impossible to know what would've happened without Tolkien. Maybe we would just be fighting enemies from American pulp fantasy all the time...

» Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:02 pm

Tolkien go the name for Orcs from Oxford Rugby Club. I think its safe to say "Orcs" would not exist

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:12 am

I voted no, they wouldn't exist in Elder Scrolls if it wasn't for LotR.

But....

....But would orcs exist without a cinematic trilogy like Lord Of The Rings, and would they look like that....

Like others I object to the word "cinematic" meaning the films. I haven't played them but I believe Orcs were in Elder Scrolls games that predated the movies.

Also Orcs in elder scrolls are not at all like Orc in Lord of the Rings, and don't have the same backstory either. But I do think Elder Scrolls Orcs are LotR inspired in some sense.

Of course Orcs also predated the LotRs books.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:29 pm

Tolkien invented Orcs.
Tolkien reinvented Goblins into what we know them to be today.
Tolkien reinvented Elves (and invented the plural word "elves") into what we know them to be today.
Tolkien reinvented Dwarves into what we know them to be today.

All modern fantasy draws from Tolkein's work in some way or another.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:07 am

They would go by a different name, but then again tolkien did invent modern fantasy fiction pretty much.. so I'm not sure if TES would exist in the first place.

Well technically they do. Orsimer.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:10 am

Elder Scrolls had Orcs before the cinematic trilogy.

However, Elder Scrolls fantasy and almost all high fantasy is based somewhat on Tolkien.

Yup, if TES even would exist it would be completely different, and if orcs existed, they would probably go by a different name.

@ mt_pelion, I'm not so sure about the dwarves, yes to a certain degree, but bearded dwarven master blacksmiths exist in norse mythology. What he invented was more behaviour and a little bit more culture.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:37 am

I voted maybe, but then I read you're post and i recalled my vote and said yes

. The cinamatic trilogy has 0% effect on there being orcs in TES or not since they were in before the movies existed. Now if you take the books, you might have a point.

I am just not sure if LOTR was the first to ever mention orcs, perhaps they are part of folklore somewhere.

This and, orcs had to have been folklore, as it meant demon or something in some language (hey, the guy was a master linguist). It was just that Tolkein was the first to use it.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:08 am

Orcs the word wasn't used before Tolkien, but a creature kind of looking like an Orc was. Maybe that's where he got the idea. But yeah, it was called orke and went back to 1656...at least that's what Wiki said. Regardless, I don't think any fantasy game would be the same if we didn't have Tolkien.

» Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:28 pm

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nope.

» Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:59 am

Just out of curosity. But would orcs exist without a cinematic trilogy like Lord Of The Rings, and would they look like that.
If it was, i'm certainly happy about that because im going to eventually play one. (----- AND I love 'Lord Of The Rings' by the way, favourite trilogy ever. Then behind that comes 'Back To The Future' ------- Not Relevant to question.)

Its not just a movie you know.

LotR has been around for quite awhile.

Orcs probably in name wouldn't exist but there are plenty of races of goblin like beings that someone could have used or created similar to orcs. Plenty of myths and folklore to eventually inspire someone.