To all those at BETHESDA involved in the production of Skyrim: congratulations on producing this great and incomparable RPG! Oblivion and Fallout 3 were already great on the Xbox 360, but Skyrim is a further improvement on these previous two BETHESDA RPG's.

From statements of leading BETHESDA staff members published on the internet I understand that any future Skyrim DLC will be larger than the DLC published for Oblivion and Fallout 3. I hope that there is still room for Armour and Arms requests for any upcoming Skyrim DLC.

Since I play Skyrim on the Xbox 360 it is impossible for me to add any items to the game myself like PC players can. So therefore the only thing left is to direct a request via this forum to BETHESDA concerning certain Armour and Arms items.

The thread concerns itself with any Xbox 360 Arms and Armour requests for future official BETHESDA Skyrim DLC, meaning Arms and Armour to be included in a future Skyrim DLC - whatever the main subject of such a Skyrim DLC turns out to be. Of course any official BETHESDA Skyrim DLC will also be available for the PS3 and PC.

The data in this post draws heavily on a similar - ungranted - request that I made to BIOWARE concerning Dragon Age Origins.

A “heavy armour" which I would like to see added as a Dovahkiin exclusive is the so-called late-era Gothic armour. Of all the beautiful armour produced in Europe over a 600-year period the gothic armour truly stands out for its outlandish and exceptional style, elegance and grace. The unique style of the gothic armour would, in my opinion, be a fine choice for a new “heavy armour" type.

Although gothic full body armour might appear heavy and cumbersome, it actually normally weighed less than 20 kilograms (40 pounds) and the weight and armour plates were well distributed over the body to allow for excellent and fluent movement in combat. Modern day tests by re-enactors have confirmed this and even revealed that a knight in full body armour on foot could run fast enough to catch a foot archer on the run and that it even was even possible to swim in a full suit of body armour. In like manner, the two-handed battle sword (long sword) usually only weighed about 1,5 kilograms (3 pounds) or 2,3 kilograms (4,6 pounds) at most and was well balanced and therefore good to handle by an average strength person. In comparison, a modern day 21st century combat soldier carries well more than 20 kilograms (40 pounds) of equipment and the average modern day assault rifle weighs around 3 kilograms (6 pounds).

Only several complete examples of gothic armour still exist nowadays. The gothic armour which I request to include in Skyrim is this late-era gothic armour of the Archduke Sigmund of Tirol (1427-96), which is arguably the finest remaining almost complete gothic armour , it was made by the famous armourer Lorenz Helmschmied around 1480 and is on display in the KHM in Vienna:

[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/German_Gothic_armour_c1484_KM_09b.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_17036.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_34433.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_34429.jpg[/img]

Note in this back image that the back part of the neck plate, called bevor, of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour has been lost to this day.

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_34434.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_17040.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_17041.jpg[/img]

The armoured shoes, called sabatons, of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour. The long points were REMOVED when not on horseback.

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_32922.jpg[/img]

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_17039.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/siegmund/bilder/fotoserie_museum/LORENZ1.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/siegmund/bilder/fotoserie_museum/LORENZ9.JPG[/img]

Note again the lost back part of the neck plate (bevor).

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/siegmund/bilder/fotoserie_museum/LORENZ3.JPG[/img]

The image below gives a good side view of the typical and unique gothic armour helmet, called sallet, of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour. Note that the neckpiece armour, called bevor, displayed in this black and white image reveals a museum error, since it does not belong to Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour but to Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour. Also visible is the right shoulder gardbrace which was an extra armour plate attached to the shoulder pauldron. Unfortunately the left shoulder gardbrace of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour is missing to this day. The gardbraces of most medieval armour have regular size gardbraces fairly comparable to the one found on Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour, which is quite contrary to many of the “heavy armour” types featured in Skyrim, some Skyrim "heavy armour" types have absolutely huge gardbraces on the shoulders which almost dwarf the characters head in Skyrim. These huge gardbraces typical of some Skyrim "heavy armour" types are really not found in real life medieval combat armour, since they would be unpractical, too heavy and cumbersome. The main and leading centres for superior first class armour production in medieval Europe were the workshops of the master armourers in southern Germany and northern Italy and these armourers avoided making huge and heavy gardbraces for combat armour for obvious reasons.

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/siegmund/bilder/09_a_seite.jpg[/img]

Below an image with explanation of the names of the various parts that make up Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour. Note that Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour only has one original pauldron gardbrace on the right shoulder, the original left shoulder pauldron gardbrace is unfortunately lost as are the original besagews (floating disks) that optionally further covered the armpits.

[img]http://www.myarmoury.com/images/features/pic_feature_ger_gothic.gif[/img]

Note that the peculiar long pointed sabatons (armoured shoes) of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour were only used when on horseback. When fighting on foot the long points would be REMOVED and then the short sabaton points of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour would have looked something like this, which is what I request to be used instead of the long pointed horseback sabaton ones:

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/gothic/bilder/ingolstadt/ingolstadt1.jpg[/img]

The armpits of Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour were optionally further covered by circular armour plates, so-called besagews (floating discs), which protected this area against stabbing attacks. An impression of what Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour would have looked like with besagews is visible in the black and white image below. The centre gothic armour in the image below at first glance looks like Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour, but detailed study reveals that it actually is the Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour. Master armourer Lorenz Helmschmied made this gothic armour for Emperor Maximillian, which accounts for the overall similar appearance with Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour. Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour (center armour) seems to be fully complete except for the two missing pauldron gardbraces on the shoulders:

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/helmschmied/bilder/zwei_maximiliane.jpg[/img]

This front image of Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour clearly shows the design detail difference between Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour and Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour which has finer decorations. Note that Emperor's Maximillian's gothic armour is also missing the back plate of its neck armour (bevor).

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_38102.jpg[/img]

Again this black and white back image of Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour also clearly shows the design detail difference between Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour and Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour which has finer decorations. The image also gives an excellent view of rearward design of the typical gothic armour helmet, called sallet, which offered additional neck protection. Note that Emperor's Maximillian's gothic armour is also missing the back plate of its neck armour (bevor).

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/helmschmied/bilder/maximilian_hinten.jpg[/img]

One of the Arms that I would like to see added to Skyrim is a late-era variant of the two-handed battle sword (long sword), the so-called Flammberger (flame bladed sword). These two-handed battle swords (long swords) were wielded by specially trained and officially certified elite swordsman who received double the normal pay for their services. Although these two-handed battle swords (long swords) were quite large, they were nevertheless quite light for their length, most weighing between 1,5 to 2,3 kilograms and they were well balanced. In Skyrim however they are quite slow to wield, which they were not in real life. Some interesting data on their use and weight as well as fighting techniques, movements and images can be found at:

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.html

The Flammberger could be introduced in Skyrim as a weapon used exclusively by the Dovahkiin, much like Ancient Nordic weapons that can only be forged at Skyforge. Several examples of these two-handed Flammberger battle swords are on display in museums, the ones which I request to include in Skyrim is a Flammberger replica like the one depicted in the two links below:

[img]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/SD901098_Flamberge_Sword.jpg[/img]

[img]http://therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1270.html[/img]

Another Arm that I would like to see included in Skyrim is another variant ot the two-handed battle sword. The image underneath shows the hilt of Emperor Maximillian’s two-handed straight-bladed battle sword (long sword) which matches Archduke Sigmund’s and Emperor Maximillian’s gothic armour in style, colour and appearance. It would also make a fine Skyrim Dovahkiin exclusive when combined with Archduke Sigmund’s gothic armour.

[img]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_139_38091.jpg[/img]

And lastly, more simple that all this data posted above, it would be nice to see a "heavy armour" Dovahkiin Skyforge exclusive variant of the current "heavy" Ancient Nord armour with:

1. Trousers for the male version;
2. Without the large armoured shoulder pieces for the female version (like already exists for the Draugr);
4. With less bulky gauntlets and boots for both the male and female version, more in the style of the current Iron Gauntlets and Iron Boots that are part of the current Skyrim Iron Armour;
4. Combined with a Helm of Yngol type helm that can be enchanted.

An Ancient Nord Flammberger with a hilt comparable to the current Skyrim Steel Greatsword hilt would be a nice addition to such a new variant of the current Ancient Nord "heavy" armour. As a minor request, it would be nice if the current male version of the Ancient Nord helmet could be also made available for female characters.

In any event, consider to have any new Skyrim DLC armour to have trousers for the male version, since the Ancient European Nordics normally wore trousers and not skirts. Even though Skyrim is fantasy, it still draws heavily on what has been produced on earth over the past few centuries, especially the Nord armour. So having Nord armour with trousers is not that out of place in Skyrim.

I'm against any dlc, especially something like stand alone armor/weapon packs.

I'm for new armor and weapons, but include them in an expansion please!

^this

also How would full Gothic style plate fit in the cold viking-based nordic land of skyrim?
If you want Gothic armor play dark souls xD

...That armor doesn't really fit with the Nord culture/architecture... And there already are steel and iron armors in the game.

Wow! What a well put to together set of information, I didn't read all of it but you must have spent a long time researching. I don't mean to burst your bubble though, but I don't think BGS are doing any DLC with just one weapon or piece of apparel.

Hell for all the problems with Skyrim, I think any DLC that comes out should be for FREE. If Bethesda did something like that it would help fix their reputation. O before any of that they still need to make Skyrim work at 100% on all systems first then Free DLC, then and only then would I have faith in Bethesda again.

Well, I can see the argument that perhaps full plate doesn't quite fit with the supposed early-medieval look of the game...but then they're pretty inconsistent with that. The Imperial soldiers are wearing some armor that perhaps is best suited for skirmishers in the late Ancient times, about 2000 years ago, while the Iron armor looks like an iron equivalent of the bronze briastplate worn by Greek hoplites, the Steel armor looks somewhat similar (in terms of armor style, not the decorative style) and of course there are several sets of full plate in the game already: Elven, Dwarven, Steel Plate, Glass, Ebony and Daedric are all sets of full plate armor.

So I'm not quite sure that the argument about historical period really works.

To clarify, I am NOT requesting Arms and Armour as a separate DLC, any official BETHESDA Skyrim DLC will include new Arms and Armour as evident in previous Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas DLC. Oblivion horse armour was a mistake never repeated so it is not worth mentioning.

Like Gram remarks, there already are many different era style armours in the game, Roman, Germanic, Viking, Medieval plate armour, fantasy armour etc.

Skyrim currently already includes medieval style plate armour, like the steel plate, ebony and daedra armour. So the Gothic armour is not out of place. My request genereally extends to these two areas,

- An Ancient Nord "heavy" Armour variant with corresponding style Flammberger;
- A Steel Plate "heavy" Armour variant in Gothic style with corresponding style Flammberger.

Some images showing besagews, the so-called floatings discs of armour, that protected the armpits in gothic armour and that eliminated the need for the large oversize gardbraces on the shoulder, like the huge gardbraces that characterize some Skyrim "heavy armour" type armour. The original besagews of Archduke Sigmund's gothic armour mentioned above are unfortunately lost.

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/gothic/bilder/landshut1470.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.liechtenauer.com/my_armour/gothic/bilder/ingolstadt/ingolstadt2.jpg[/img]

It's an interesting question. TES isn't written by military history buffs, I guess, so there's not much discussion about styles of warfare practiced among the varying nationalities in Tamriel. Magic and its inclusion in the Imperial military via Battlemages is documented, of course, but there's virtually no mention of cavalry, and very little mention of units of archers, or polearms, or anything of the sort, so it's hard to discuss some of these things. Some items in even a suit of full plate armor were largely intended for cavalry soldiers, like the heavy armor on the legs. Dismounted knights tended to dispense with fully armoring their legs, unless I'm mistaken.

But I'm all for variations in armor. Wouldn't hurt for there to be a more explicitly Eastern style of armor as well. The Blades armor in Oblivion always struck me as being reminiscent of Japanese samurai armor, but I'd like to see a set that is more explicitly derived from samurai armor. And a few more sets of European-style full plate wouldn't be a bad idea either, nor would a suit of armor more heavily reminiscent of armor worn by Greek hoplites, complete with shinguards, a Corinthian helmet, and even a round hoplite-style shield.

Full body plate armour was used by both mounted and dismounted knights. The full body plate armour was so effective that the use of the shield became a thing of the past. Recent examination of gunpower era late European plate armour revealed that European armourers made bullit proof armour by combining several layers of steel plate and then combining (forging) these into one piece. Like current era battle tank armour! The first layer would shatter from the impact of the bullit leaving the rest of the armour plate intact, in effect being a bullit proof armour.

The reason the armour plate went out of fashion was because of the increasing cost of the armour and the fact that the nobles (aristocracy) that could afford the costly full body plate armour were turning their attention to more effectively controlling and commanding the ever larger armies, instead of fighting in the front line in hand to hand combat as they had done for centuries. The not so rich and fortunate masses were never able to afford the expensive armour. The only exception to this rule were the cuirassiers of the post medieval era, who wore armoured briast plates.

Japanese armour in Skyrim is kind of out of place in my opinion. Maybe something more appropriate for a future TES in another area of Tamriel. The same might be said of Greek style armour.

There is a Greek style helmet in Skyrim as evident in the loading screens, but I have not acquired it yet.

I honestly cannot tell you how much I laughed at this. Especially the part I underlined.

Looks like Ebony.

You forgot the PS3. Anyway, armor isn't bad but doesn't fit with the world of Skyrim. That's something I would see in Tamriel.

the helm looks rather ugly .-.

Im praying for 1. More Armor styles, 2. More Armor colors 3. More Weapon variety (i.e. scimitars like those of Drizzt Do' Urden)

I would like to be able to disenchant and creat my own staffs as well as learn the ingredients in potions so that I can create the ones I find in the game. Surely there is a way to modify this?

Also, there seem to be a lot of side quests that could easily be turned into more DLC for example what happened to the Dark Elves etc.

Just a thought.

Seems like steel plate and steel 2h sword are close enough. I want unique skinned weapons added, like Chrysamere. I can't believe there's only one unique 2h sword.. and it's a katana A unique bow would be nice, too. Something with a name...

I think this armour would work just fine just look at the blades armour. They have several similarities if nothing else it could be introduced as the armour set of a different blades chapter.

-this-, any ne armor, especially light armor is welcome,
There is an unique bow, the nightingale bow.

Though a really long post, very well constructed. These are the kind of posts Beth should look at. A request with some researching and info. Good post. I do wish there were more varieties of armor though.

Thanks!

It would be nice if BETHESDA would look at it. My similar post concerning BIOWARE's Dragon Age Origins never got any kind of response (in the form of comparable arms+armour in a DA:O DLC), but BETHESDA being BETHESDA and not BIOWARE, my expections are higher concerning both BETHESDA and Skyrim DLC!

agree, i used to hear people say they would pay $$$ for extra guns for COD, i was like, that is stupid and don't give them ideals, they want to add guns, it comes with map packs, not seperate.

Yeah, from what I've heard about Skyrim's DLC; having less than say Fallout, but having much more depth. My expectations are high for the DLC.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the saying goes.

And to think that this sallet helmet is the helmet type that eventually evolved into the combat helmet model (without the front peace covering the jaw) that the current US military uses. This helmet was for a long period very popular in central Europe and remained popular even when the more advanced visor helmets appeared. It was reported as being comforable.