So you can buy a coach, but does anyone actually use one?

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Doesn't bother me that the game has carriages that don't move. I like to walk to most places and use fast travel as well at time. I just feel that carriages don't move so why have them in the game. If you get on a horse it doesn't come up with I list of destinations to go to and you then instantly appear there. No you get to travel on the horse which is much faster than running so its a better option if you want to play the game for real.
User avatar
Christina Trayler
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:27 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:34 pm


I've had this discussion before on another thread..

I don't care how people play the game, but it bugs me a little when Beth starts making content for them, moving away from proper quests and RPG content.

quite the sense of entitlement you have there. I hate vampires, and I still bought Dawnguard. I had a bad feeling about Knights of the nine, and bought it anyways. Same with horse armour and Spell Tomes. Lots of people like role-playing, myself included. Just because you don't doesn't mean Bethesda should ignore everyone else. Odds are you'll buy it regardless.
User avatar
Mistress trades Melissa
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:28 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:19 pm

Like you said about others, maybe Skyrim isn't the game for you? Don't see why you think yourself more deserving than others. If you don't like how a game has evolved, then surely it's time to move onto something that does meet your needs? After all, there's games out there that do have proper quests and RPG content.

The game isn't so different from Oblivion, so it wasn't like Beth just suddenly mixed everything up. You basically knew what you were buying into.

Well said. :goodjob:
User avatar
Cool Man Sam
 
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 1:19 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:10 pm

I do (referring to thread title)

Sometimes it can be just as quick to ask the driver and jump in back as it is to open up the map menu and move around the cursor trying to find the desired location. I think it's a nice touch.

More so is the boats we can hire to travel between docks. I was well pleased when i stumbled on these as it takes me back to my Morrowind days. (Hopefully there will be a boat soon that will also take us to Solstheim to revisit the Skaal Nords and to see the newly built massive Raven Rock grey quarter - hopefully it'll have mostly Dunmer buildings)

More and more Skyrim is impressing me. I love what the Devs are doing and love the way they are trying their hardest to give us the full demands :)
User avatar
Eibe Novy
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:32 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:21 pm

Like you said about others, maybe Skyrim isn't the game for you? Don't see why you think yourself more deserving than others. If you don't like how a game has evolved, then surely it's time to move onto something that does meet your needs? After all, there's games out there that do have proper quests and RPG content.

The game isn't so different from Oblivion, so it wasn't like Beth just suddenly mixed everything up. You basically knew what you were buying into.
quite the sense of entitlement you have there. I hate vampires, and I still bought Dawnguard. I had a bad feeling about Knights of the nine, and bought it anyways. Same with horse armour and Spell Tomes. Lots of people like role-playing, myself included. Just because you don't doesn't mean Bethesda should ignore everyone else. Odds are you'll buy it regardless.
I don't think I'm entitled to anything, or that I deserve anything, I think you misunderstand me. I'm just saying it's a little sad what direction this game series is going. My personal opinion is that they should stick to the RPG elements of the game, rather than move the genre to the 'action/adventure' category. But that's only what I want, money is the true determining factor, skyrim has sold more than any of the previous games, so Beth is happy.

I do greatly enjoy skyrim, I wouldn't be on the forum if I didn't. I said the same on another thread, there are positive aspects to way the game has changed:
- The graphics are vastly improved (to appeal to the casual gamer), it makes the previous games look like cartoons.
- The combat is much much better (to appeal to the casual gamer), the look, the feel, it's much better. It's also more varied, dual wielding is possible, mixing shields/melee/spells is much more fluid.
- I much prefer the leveling system, it is simpler (for the casual gamer) but it also makes you develop your character specifically, you can't be the master of everything. I'm sad we lost attributes, but I disliked the way attributes was done in oblivion. I'd prefer a fallout approach. You choose your attrubutes at the beginning of the game, they have a strong impact on the style of play and are definitive (you can't change them or max them out).

But we've lost so much quest depth, and consequence is pretty much completely removed. Also we've lost good features like spellcrafting, added some dire features like the smithing system and basic roleplaying aspects are removed. Things like directions to quest locations, rather than showing you on a map, the ability to remove the compass, varied dialogue etc.
User avatar
Heather beauchamp
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:05 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:32 am

I feel like I've hijacked the thread ha, my apologies.
User avatar
Shannon Marie Jones
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:19 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:56 am

I don't think I'm entitled to anything, or that I deserve anything, I think you misunderstand me. I'm just saying it's a little sad what direction this game series is going. My personal opinion is that they should stick to the RPG elements of the game, rather than move the genre to the 'action/adventure' category. But that's only what I want, money is the true determining factor, skyrim has sold more than any of the previous games, so Beth is happy.

I do greatly enjoy skyrim, I wouldn't be on the forum if I didn't. I said the same on another thread, there are positive aspects to way the game has changed:
- The graphics are vastly improved (to appeal to the casual gamer), it makes the previous games look like cartoons.
- The combat is much much better (to appeal to the casual gamer), the look, the feel, it's much better. It's also more varied, dual wielding is possible, mixing shields/melee/spells is much more fluid.
- I much prefer the leveling system, it is simpler (for the casual gamer) but it also makes you develop your character specifically, you can't be the master of everything. I'm sad we lost attributes, but I disliked the way attributes was done in oblivion. I'd prefer a fallout approach. You choose your attrubutes at the beginning of the game, they have a strong impact on the style of play and are definitive (you can't change them or max them out).

But we've lost so much quest depth, and consequence is pretty much completely removed. Also we've lost good features like spellcrafting, added some dire features like the smithing system and basic roleplaying aspects are removed. Things like directions to quest locations, rather than showing you on a map, the ability to remove the compass, varied dialogue etc.

Lets be honest here, there's very little between Oblivion and Skyrim when it comes to quest markers, lack of quest depth etc. In fact, you could argue that Skyrim is more RPG friendly insofar that the quest marker is optional. Yeah, the quest descriptions are poor, but the fact remains the markers are optional. Unless you had mods you were stuck with the quest markers in Oblivion.

I dunno if you were around when Morrowind was first released, but these forums were swamped with people moaning about how laborious it was questing due to the ambiguity surrounding most quests. Beth listened and changed it. It's simply a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not going to make everyone happy, so it's a case of making a decision and going with it.

It's the same with every single series out there. Almost every title out there has a following and when any game evolves or moves on, it almost always leaves a selection of players behind and if we're being honest, they would denounce anything that proceeded it no matter how deep they had to delve to acquire that opinion.

It's happened with the Civilisation series, Total War series, NWN, Diablo etc etc. It's nothing new and will happen with the next instalment too.

The most important point in all this, and it's a point that is always omitted from arguments such as yours, and that is Beth is now too large a company to cater to niche markets. It's all fine n dandy wanting a niche game, however, niche games don't sell well and as such are better left to smaller dev houses. hardcoe RPG's no longer sell like they used to and many a dev have went to the wall because they have refused to change with the times.

Edit: Thanks for keeping this civil, mate. Too many people tend to jump down the throats of others whenever there's a differing opinion on the board.
User avatar
Teghan Harris
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:31 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:41 am

I take it, because it's a better mode of travel to cities without incurring the wrath of Vampire attacks, because they seem to happen with more frequency if you fast travel directly into cities.
Besides...I like to take my time. And Carriages have character.

This. And Dragons. The Rural Holds are in dire danger of being depopulated. Falkreath lost three residents my last visit, prior to this DLC, from a dual dragon attack. And this is after completing the MQ. So, if the ability to now "carriage travel" to every town and city and settlement in Skyrim is available, then I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride. :)
User avatar
Wayne Cole
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:22 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:14 pm

All the time. Not everyone abuses fast travel, some of us like to feel that we are still "in the world." I walk when I can't get a carriage. Unless I'm moving a bunch of crap between houses, then I speed things up a bit more.

You imply that using fast travel is equivocal to exploiting some unintended flaw in the game. I don't understand why some people insinuate that using fast travel is somehow unsavory when there used to be spells for it (mark and recall) in Morrowind. If a person, even a RPer wants to they can use it. You could pretend, which is what RPing is all about, that youre using a spell or whatever. But don't act as if not using fast travel is a mark of a superior game play philosophy.
User avatar
Louise Dennis
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:23 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:27 am

I do for roleplay reasons. I dont fast travel, so this helps when I just want to go do something like change my armor at home, or sell stuff somewhere without making a journey out of it.
User avatar
Enny Labinjo
 
Posts: 3480
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:04 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:03 pm

I'm not much of an RPG player, but i'm trying.

However...

1.) It's a free carriage ride.
2.) More traveling locations than of the other Hold stables.

So why not use it?
Kudos.
User avatar
Amiee Kent
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:25 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:40 pm

I'm not much of an RPG player, but i'm trying.

However...

1.) It's a free carriage ride.
2.) More traveling locations than of the other Hold stables.

So why not use it?
Kudos.

Yup, some of those towns I didnt even know were there.
User avatar
Inol Wakhid
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:47 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:22 am


I don't think I'm entitled to anything, or that I deserve anything, blah blah blah (not to appear rude, but it was a long post so I had to delete the majority of it to see what I'm typing on my phone.
I apologize, I think I must have misunderstood you. You did sound all 'WE NEED MORE ACTION DLC BECAUSE I'M 12' this morning. I accept that skyrim is perhaps the 'my first elder scrolls game' in accounts to the accessability to new players. While I do like the new system more (SPECIAL works well in FO because non-combat situations have a lot more mechanics. Skyrim has a pretty much non-existant speech skill and nothing else. SPECIAL imo has no effect during combat other than maybe not being able to snipe with a minigun if you're weak.) I think the roleplaying part of the game is incredibly important. All other RPG's I've played have no immersion capacity. I'm not one of those nerds who base my life off videogames, but being 14, playing oblivion was the first time I actually cared about any world other than the real one. Perhaps it's the hundreds, possibly thousands of hours I put into it, but seriously, it's a beautiful setting, and if we were to judge games on their ability to draw you in, probably the greatest game series of all time. And being the noble sort, I think that everyone should be able to experience that, so Skyrim and future games need to be as deep as they are accessible.
User avatar
Allison C
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:02 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:31 pm

You imply that using fast travel is equivocal to exploiting some unintended flaw in the game. I don't understand why some people insinuate that using fast travel is somehow unsavory when there used to be spells for it (mark and recall) in Morrowind. If a person, even a RPer wants to they can use it. You could pretend, which is what RPing is all about, that youre using a spell or whatever. But don't act as if not using fast travel is a mark of a superior game play philosophy.

I dont really think thats what he was going for. As someone who actually role-plays, I understand what he means. Yes role-playing is pretending, but the game has to actually help you out a bit in that regard. For those who dont like to fast travel, the carriages help. To me, fast traveling for missions is very immersion breaking, which I think is what he was going for, not a feeling of superiority.
User avatar
TRIsha FEnnesse
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:59 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Lets be honest here, there's very little between Oblivion and Skyrim when it comes to quest markers, lack of quest depth etc. In fact, you could argue that Skyrim is more RPG friendly insofar that the quest marker is optional. Yeah, the quest descriptions are poor, but the fact remains the markers are optional. Unless you had mods you were stuck with the quest markers in Oblivion.

I dunno if you were around when Morrowind was first released, but these forums were swamped with people moaning about how laborious it was questing due to the ambiguity surrounding most quests. Beth listened and changed it. It's simply a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not going to make everyone happy, so it's a case of making a decision and going with it.

It's the same with every single series out there. Almost every title out there has a following and when any game evolves or moves on, it almost always leaves a selection of players behind and if we're being honest, they would denounce anything that proceeded it no matter how deep they had to delve to acquire that opinion.

It's happened with the Civilisation series, Total War series, NWN, Diablo etc etc. It's nothing new and will happen with the next instalment too.

The most important point in all this, and it's a point that is always omitted from arguments such as yours, and that is Beth is now too large a company to cater to niche markets. It's all fine n dandy wanting a niche game, however, niche games don't sell well and as such are better left to smaller dev houses. hardcoe RPG's no longer sell like they used to and many a dev have went to the wall because they have refused to change with the times.

Edit: Thanks for keeping this civil, mate. Too many people tend to jump down the throats of others whenever there's a differing opinion on the board.
Not really, I have to use a piece if paper to block the compass. It's not much of an improvement.

I'm completely aware of the financial side of the argument, as I mentioned above. It's essentially why the games are changing, to sell as many as possible to the 'casual' gamers. I don't want a hardcoe RPG, this game lacks some of the basic RPG elements (I'm not saying the game is bad).

I apologize, I think I must have misunderstood you. You did sound all 'WE NEED MORE ACTION DLC BECAUSE I'M 12' this morning. I accept that skyrim is perhaps the 'my first elder scrolls game' in accounts to the accessability to new players. While I do like the new system more (SPECIAL works well in FO because non-combat situations have a lot more mechanics. Skyrim has a pretty much non-existant speech skill and nothing else. SPECIAL imo has no effect during combat other than maybe not being able to snipe with a minigun if you're weak.) I think the roleplaying part of the game is incredibly important. All other RPG's I've played have no immersion capacity. I'm not one of those nerds who base my life off videogames, but being 14, playing oblivion was the first time I actually cared about any world other than the real one. Perhaps it's the hundreds, possibly thousands of hours I put into it, but seriously, it's a beautiful setting, and if we were to judge games on their ability to draw you in, probably the greatest game series of all time. And being the noble sort, I think that everyone should be able to experience that, so Skyrim and future games need to be as deep as they are accessible.
What? Did you not read what I put? I'm arguing the complete opposite.

SPECIAL does have an effect on combat, strength for weapon requirements, perception for locating enemies, endurance for health and other bonuses, charisma for boosting followers, agility for reloading/weapon switching and finally luck for crits. Every single one affects combat in a significant way.

I want a meaningful attributes system, a warrior needs maximum strength for weapon damage, but sacrifices magicka regen and agility for example.
User avatar
SexyPimpAss
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:24 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:05 am

ive been to all the places the carriage goes so i bought him just because i want everything but i dont need him.

ive only used a carriage twice since i started skyrim...pretty useless imo with the fast travel option
User avatar
mishionary
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Yes, I realise that bobjim. Which is why I said you sounded that this morning, when I commented the first time. That paragraph took painfully long to write in the first place, because froyo is the worst operating system ever, so I couldn't be bothered to clarify I was wrong, because I'd apologized just before it.
And I disagree about Special. Obviously. I realise it's supposed to have an effect. But I don't notice it. Either I can brutally murder everything regardless of the SPECIAL, or I've walked into a cazdor nest. Health makes little difference when wearing power armour/NCR ranger combat armour, Boone makes some annoying comment about enemies on the other side of Wyoming regardless of my Perception, Boone being awesome and suicidal means he needs no buffs from Charisma. I take cover when reloading or switching weapons, never bothered with the perks to speed them up and aside from cazdors I never have any trouble. If I'm desperate for crits I get the perk or use VATS. Basically, 8/10 times my atts are 6 STR, 10 INT (for skill boosts), 4 END and 5 everything else. SPECIAL has more of an effect than Oblivions Att system, but it's still not enough to seriously affect playstyle.
But yeah, like the other guy said, props for being polite. It makes a nice change arguing with some class for once. :)
User avatar
Quick draw II
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:11 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:02 pm

I don't use fast travel, so yes, i use it.
User avatar
Veronica Martinez
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:43 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:43 pm

And I disagree about Special. Obviously. I realise it's supposed to have an effect. But I don't notice it. Either I can brutally murder everything regardless of the SPECIAL, or I've walked into a cazdor nest. Health makes little difference when wearing power armour/NCR ranger combat armour, Boone makes some annoying comment about enemies on the other side of Wyoming regardless of my Perception, Boone being awesome and suicidal means he needs no buffs from Charisma. I take cover when reloading or switching weapons, never bothered with the perks to speed them up and aside from cazdors I never have any trouble. If I'm desperate for crits I get the perk or use VATS. Basically, 8/10 times my atts are 6 STR, 10 INT (for skill boosts), 4 END and 5 everything else. SPECIAL has more of an effect than Oblivions Att system, but it's still not enough to seriously affect playstyle.
But yeah, like the other guy said, props for being polite. It makes a nice change arguing with some class for once. :)
It does have an effect, I've only ever played on very hard, where you need every boost possible. Especially to health, it has a huge impact.

You're right that Boone is strong without a high charisma, but he's 50% better with charisma. It's as simple as that, it just makes them stronger.

I don't use VATS either tbh, except when fighting deathclaws using unarmed weapons, because you pretty much have to ha. But a fully maxed out crit character is one of the strongest builds (if not the strongest), you can hit for over 300 damage with some melee weapons which hit multiple times a second.

Intelligence is arguably one of the worst to take if you plan your character and have all the DLC, you can max out every skill if you want to with less than four intelligence. It becomes even more redundant on my builds, as they are mostly specialised, so don't need the maximum in every skill.
User avatar
Kirsty Collins
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:54 pm

Post » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:22 am

So a coach is really just a much slower fast travel vessel. But in order to use it you have to select a destination from the driver and then hop on the back of the cart to activate the thing. All of which consumes time that could be spent just placing your cursor somewhere on the map and clicking on ok. When you arrive at your destination on the coach it is nowhere to be seen. So why would you even want to have one sitting motionless outside your house. Sorry but I'm not wasting cash on this I'd much rather have a useless cow that just wanders about its pen.

Actually, I've used my new carriage driver quite frequently.

There's a ton of little settlements that I had no idea even existed before they appeared on this guy's list of destinations. It's just opened up huge exploration opportunities for me.

So yeah, I'm using my own personal limousine. :D
User avatar
Joe Bonney
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:00 pm

Post » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:39 am

So a coach is really just a much slower fast travel vessel. But in order to use it you have to select a destination from the driver and then hop on the back of the cart to activate the thing. All of which consumes time that could be spent just placing your cursor somewhere on the map and clicking on ok. When you arrive at your destination on the coach it is nowhere to be seen. So why would you even want to have one sitting motionless outside your house. Sorry but I'm not wasting cash on this I'd much rather have a useless cow that just wanders about its pen.
Actually there are many old TES fans who very much are happy carriages where added to this game. Morrowind had no fast travel and getting about was done by Silt Striders, boats, walking and Mage Guilds travel. There was quite a few who requested fast travel as an option and we got that added to Oblivion but other travel options were absent. Many were very disappointed with the diminished RP options for travel. Some felt it ruined the game all together due to it being unrealistic and causing folks to explore less. There has been much debate here about fast travel options and the addition of carriages at least gives that alternative to those who enjoy it.
User avatar
Sarah Edmunds
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:03 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:48 pm

Actually there are many old TES fans who very much are happy carriages where added to this game. Morrowind had no fast travel and getting about was done by Silt Striders, boats, walking and Mage Guilds travel. There was quite a few who requested fast travel as an option and we got that added to Oblivion but other travel options were absent. Many were very disappointed with the diminished RP options for travel. Some felt it ruined the game all together due to it being unrealistic and causing folks to explore less. There has been much debate here about fast travel options and the addition of carriages at least gives that alternative to those who enjoy it.

Agreed.
User avatar
Roy Harris
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:58 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:53 am

Coaches in other towns in general, no -- maybe if I'm outside the town instead of using the map; saves some clicks and controller pointing.

With my house I use it more because obviously, you have to go outside, so if I'm going to another town I've used it more.
User avatar
Jerry Jr. Ortiz
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:39 pm

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:54 pm


Continuing our off topic debate on SPECIAL.

I go for Hard w/hardcoe on fallout. And being hardcoe, I can keep maybe 100 rounds for my Anti-Mat on my character. So you can imagine being in the Big MT or Sierra Madre, that goes quite quick on Ghost People and Roboscorpions. In fact, trying to kill Spike the pet deathclaw, I was running around with a silenced 22. Took me near enough 10 minutes. That's why maxing out stats is so important to me, when you're out of ammo, and have to resort to scavenging spears and rebar clubs, it's nice to be able to cave in heads without actually using the skill bar a last resort.
Also, being hardcoe, I tend to only bring follwers in order to unlock their quests etc. So his buffs are pretty redundant for me. Being a gun nut, deathclaws and anything remotely difficult just gets it's head blown to pieces to have the body slide gently to a stop before they've broken into a proper run. High crits are wonderful, but that strategy doesn't sit well with me, that's like reloading your fight with Legate Lanius until the mysterious stranger kills him. Using the ripper or chainsaw, fair enough, but considering your high health is pretty much negated by your combat style, (and very hard mode, ofc), my build just has to don better armour than yours, and I've ended up with full stats and weighed down with ammo as opposed to stimpacks and psycho
User avatar
Charleigh Anderson
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:17 am

Post » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:43 pm

So a coach is really just a much slower fast travel vessel. But in order to use it you have to select a destination from the driver and then hop on the back of the cart to activate the thing. All of which consumes time that could be spent just placing your cursor somewhere on the map and clicking on ok. When you arrive at your destination on the coach it is nowhere to be seen. So why would you even want to have one sitting motionless outside your house. Sorry but I'm not wasting cash on this I'd much rather have a useless cow that just wanders about its pen.

My current character is lvl 58 and i just got a carriage for the hell of it and on his list of destinations were a few places i did not even know existed. Like Old...(something), i cant remember but you get a quest from Tiber Septim's ghost, or some ghost anyways. To get a sword..
User avatar
Joey Bel
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:44 am

PreviousNext

Return to V - Skyrim