Your Thu'um is truly powerful. : V - Skyrim

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:52 pm

For a simple comparison, look at dragons. They use their breath shout one after the other, no cooldown.
Now I'm not saying I need to spam breath shouts, because I do have other weapons. However, I need to be able to do something after I use Storm Call. I'm fine with shouts having a 2 or 3 minute cooldown, I really am. I just think I should be able to use another shout in between, with its own timer.

In other words, http://www.gamesas.com/user/348291-skooma-fiend/, I don't think you should be able to "spam shouts." Not at all. I think the shouts should have cooldowns, but I also think that different shouuts should have their own. There's no reason that using fire breath should prevent me from using unrelenting force immediately afterwards.

I agree. My first instinct was that each shouts does not share cooldown. I'm perfectly fine with the cooldown. Heck, Unrelenting Force can have a cooldown of 2 minutes for all I care

i just want Shouts to be actually useful in a battle instead of quick skirmishes

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:39 pm

Fight the Greybeards, and you'll see exactly why the cooldown is what it is.

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:45 am

I agree. My first instinct was that each shouts does not share cooldown. I'm perfectly fine with the cooldown. Heck, Unrelenting Force can have a cooldown of 2 minutes for all I care

i just want Shouts to be actually useful in a battle instead of quick skirmishes

I totally agree with this, but since we are stuck with the flawed system I've started using the Fortify Restoration glitch to have free Shouting without a cool time. I wish the vocal shout thing wasn't exclusive to the connect, because as much fun as it is to freeze someone with Ice Form, sprint past them with Whirlwind Sprint, and then use Unrelenting Force to send them flying off a cliff. It'd be much more fun if I could do that without having to pause the game every 2 seconds to select a new shout.

It's also great fun to combine shouts like Elemental Fury, Slow Time, and Whirlwind Sprint. The combos are just fun all around.

» Wed May 02, 2012 9:09 am

Game balance. People already say the game is too easy.

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:12 am

Fight the Greybeards, and you'll see exactly why the cooldown is what it is.

They Spam Iceform, which is not what I'm talking about. Again, for the third time in case you didn't bother reading, I'm talking about each shout having its own cooldown. I'm not referring to any ability to use the same shout back to back.

EDIT:
Spame? lol

» Wed May 02, 2012 3:57 pm

Game balance. People already say the game is too easy.

Nonsense. Just about everything can be said "for the sake of game balance". For all we know, the fact that 100 iron daggers = 100 dwemer armors in smithing was for "game balance". In fact, one can say "the game is already balanced by the time it's out", they simply tune it again.

They didn't make Shouts share the cooldown because people said it's too easy. It's already like that since day one

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:33 am

I don't use any dragon shouts because they are rubbish and take too long to recharge again. Your better off using spells or enchanted weapons which is a pity because surely a game that evolves around collecting these dragon shouts would want you to use them the more you collect them so that you have three attack options at your disposal, weapons, spells and shouts.

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:34 am

I can't tell you how many dragons have complimented me on the power of my Voice. Some have even mentioned it after I just beat them in battle, they submit to me with a line something like "your Thu'um is truly powerful, I submit."

Wha?...This never happened to me!..Count your blessings...

» Wed May 02, 2012 10:29 pm

I totally agree, I don't think there's a need for shared cooldowns.

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:37 am

Wha?...This never happened to me!..Count your blessings...

Ahmm, they are all scripted events. You will encounter them at some point if you do the various quests in the game. I'm not talking about random dragons.

» Wed May 02, 2012 5:19 pm

Nonsense. Just about everything can be said "for the sake of game balance". For all we know, the fact that 100 iron daggers = 100 dwemer armors in smithing was for "game balance". In fact, one can say "the game is already balanced by the time it's out", they simply tune it again.

They didn't make Shouts share the cooldown because people said it's too easy. It's already like that since day one

And? So what if it's there from day one? It's meant to prevent people from spamming shouts that would make encounters too easy.

Half the threads on this board are about the game being too easy, the other half about X not being powerful enough. Go figure.

» Wed May 02, 2012 3:20 pm

And? So what if it's there from day one? It's meant to prevent people from spamming shouts that would make encounters too easy.

Half the threads on this board are about the game being too easy, the other half about X not being powerful enough. Go figure.

Both can be true, you know.

I'm not saying shouts need to be made better because I'm having a hard time beating the game. As I mentioned in my OP, actually, I beat dragons regularly with my bow. The point I'm making is that shouts aren't consistent with the stories in the lore. Draugr can use shouts repeatedly, dragons can, the greybeards can, Talos could, and even King Olaf the One-Eyed supposedly had a shouting battle with a dragon.

All I'm saying is that none of these are possible with the player character, because shouts are so widely spaced out. The ones that aren't spaced out do very little damage.

I'm not talking about something being easy, I'm talking about it not making sense. Whether or not the game needs to be rebalanced is a separate issue.

» Wed May 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Also, has anyone else noticed that the full powered Disarm spell has a level cap? There are some draugr out there that I can't Disarm.

Which is nonsense, because they usually turn right around and Disarm me.

Then of course, I beat the snot out of them. So am I more powerful or not? Were they all dragonborn too?

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:05 am

And? So what if it's there from day one? It's meant to prevent people from spamming shouts that would make encounters too easy.

Half the threads on this board are about the game being too easy, the other half about X not being powerful enough. Go figure.

That means it's not like that because it will make things too easy. There might be other reasons, but it's not because people said "well dang man, this makes the game too easy!"

Also, has anyone else noticed that the full powered Disarm spell has a level cap? There are some draugr out there that I can't Disarm.

Which is nonsense, because they usually turn right around and Disarm me.

Then of course, I beat the snot out of them. So am I more powerful or not? Were they all dragonborn too?

I remember that the disarm spell does have a level cap. I don't exactly remember where I read it, but it certainly has. It's one of the reasons I keep my level low via console

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:06 pm

I think when a dragon compliments the power of your thu'um its really saying that you have alot of heart or balls...at least thats what i get from it

Its like native americans would say your medicine is strong or something to that effect but they were talking about your spirit

» Wed May 02, 2012 6:51 pm

I wonder 'though ... when do they say that? I've never had a dragon submit to me after a fight. Or is it because I didn't finish the main quest yet?

» Wed May 02, 2012 10:31 pm

I can't tell you how many dragons have complimented me on the power of my Voice. Some have even mentioned it after I just beat them in battle, they submit to me with a line something like "your Thu'um is truly powerful, I submit."

Nonsense. I beat you with my bow, by hiding behind that rock over there. I didn't even use a shout, much less defeat you with them. In fact, I couldn't even if I wanted to. The only shouts that do any damage to you have a 45 minute cool-down. I can't use it fast enough to hurt you even if I wanted to.

This is something that bothers me about this game. The shouts have the enormous cooldowns that make it impossible to use the strong ones in any sort of combat situation. Dragons, on the other hand, can use them repeatedly.

Now I understand the need for balance. You don't want fire spells to be obsolete just because someone can shout "yol" over and over. However, I really do think that the shouts each need their OWN timers. I want to be able to use Storm Call, then Call Dragon, then Fire Breath, all in succession.

This is how you battle a dragon. I'm supposed to be Dovahkiin aren't I? One of dragon blood? An innate, born ability to use these shouts? Why is it so difficult for me to actually use them then?

I agree this. Before the new patch Disarm was really powerful shout. It was useful in any battle with several armed enemies especially when you had Amulet of Talos on your neck, but now they made it to recharge far slower than it did so it's non-usable on a battlefield now.

» Wed May 02, 2012 6:33 pm

Some nature of "Shout MP" bar would be perfect. A skill and perk tree is an interesting idea as well.
I certainly support the Shout Stamina idea though. That's what's needed here I think.

There's a mod that ties shout aptitude to your speech skill. It's an interesting idea, gives the speech skill some actual effectiveness.

» Wed May 02, 2012 8:34 am

After the war quest, I was headed back to Windhelm to do some quests, and as I approached the stables I noticed a storm that looked suspiciously like Storm Call when i use it. Now, caveat here, I used the Dangerous Dragons mod, which adds new dragons with assorted breath weapons, makes the tougher, and in general makes dragon fights much more "epic." The dragon attacking the entrance to Windhelm turned out to be a "Storm Dragon", and HE was using Storm Call! Seeing that everyone outside the gates was already dead (or immortal and not dying) I used my own Storm Call, so there were two going at once, one of which hurt me, and the dragon turns out to be immune to shock! YIKES!

Well, you know how long the cooldown is for Storm Call, even with blessings and amulets. However, the dragon was able to use Storm Call every 30 seconds or so, and there I was. Couldn't use dragonrend, or marked for death, nothin'. And my resistance to shock is my worst resistance, so needless to say ...... hey, look, reloading from previous save. 36th level and had my butt handed to me in short order.

Most fun I've had in a while in Skyrim :blink:

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:35 am

My problem with shouts is that the more words you get, the longer the cooldown. Isn't it supposed to make it more powerful? Well, yeah, it does, but if it takes a minute to cooldown then it loses it significance, thus its power. "power" doesn't lie in raw damage, it lies in relevance. Yol toor shul should do more damage than Yol, with the same cooldown.

I had a dream where I fought a new dragon priest. When I killed him I naturally retrieved his mask. It was blood red and had a 50% shout cooldown reduction. My subconscious wants it as bad as I do it seems.
Just thought I'd share

» Wed May 02, 2012 5:47 pm

I wonder 'though ... when do they say that? I've never had a dragon submit to me after a fight. Or is it because I didn't finish the main quest yet?

The only times I've seen it is in cases where you needed to Shout in order to reach that conversation. So it makes perfect sense in context.

Personally, I got a heck of a lot of use out of the Slow Time shout. Being able to launch a volley of precisely-aimed arrows within a second or two of real-time is powerfully useful whatever you're fighting, and the cooldown isn't too punitive even at max strength. Plus, going into Bullet Time in a hectic combat just looks totally cool.

» Wed May 02, 2012 6:50 pm

This is a great idea, they should have separate cool downs.

» Wed May 02, 2012 1:13 pm

Now that I think about it more, they probably should have made all shouts have the same cool down. A single, universal cool down for shouting would have made it seem like shouting was natural to your character, and that s/he knew how to converse with dragons.

Then, starting at that point, you balance the shouts accordingly. If you want to make a powerful shout like Stormcall, balance it with the idea that the cooldown is going to be the same as Fus Ro Dah. If you feel like stormcall is too strong, don't increase the cooldown, decrease the duration of the storm.

» Wed May 02, 2012 5:02 pm

There's a mod that ties shout aptitude to your speech skill. It's an interesting idea, gives the speech skill some actual effectiveness.

Thats cool.

Yea I never understood how everyone else that can shout except for the dragonborn can almost spam shouts that are also way more powerful than his/hers shouts.

» Wed May 02, 2012 10:48 am

I noticed this too and it also really bothers me. Yes I love shouting but the cool downs just svck so much that I usually forget about them all together (unless it's become etheral).