I can't tell you how many dragons have complimented me on the power of my Voice. Some have even mentioned it after I just beat them in battle, they submit to me with a line something like "your Thu'um is truly powerful, I submit."

Nonsense. I beat you with my bow, by hiding behind that rock over there. I didn't even use a shout, much less defeat you with them. In fact, I couldn't even if I wanted to. The only shouts that do any damage to you have a 45 minute cool-down. I can't use it fast enough to hurt you even if I wanted to.

This is something that bothers me about this game. The shouts have the enormous cooldowns that make it impossible to use the strong ones in any sort of combat situation. Dragons, on the other hand, can use them repeatedly.

Now I understand the need for balance. You don't want fire spells to be obsolete just because someone can shout "yol" over and over. However, I really do think that the shouts each need their OWN timers. I want to be able to use Storm Call, then Call Dragon, then Fire Breath, all in succession.

This is how you battle a dragon. I'm supposed to be Dovahkiin aren't I? One of dragon blood? An innate, born ability to use these shouts? Why is it so difficult for me to actually use them then?

I definitally agree with you and im sure it originally had something to do with balancing, even though its not balanced at all. For example, Fire breath and frost breath dragon shouts are completely useless. They do way too little damage and have way too high of a cooldown time. Hell they arent even good at level 5. Where as in comparison, slow time is much more useful and has a less of a cooldown then the fire breath and frost breath (what the hell is with that?!) and is useful all game.

I just recently got the computer version and a bunch of mods that fix stupid little things like this that should have been implemented in the vanilla game properly. If you have the computer version there is a mod that balances out the shouts to make the useless ones actually useful but without overpowering the game by tweaking cooldown times and damages, radius and what have you. Its called improved dragon shouts (there is another mod that does this as well but is way too OP in my opinion)

Not sure if you really need anything after Storm Call, but it could be epic....

Interesting Idea. I understand the need for a shout to have a cool down, but I do agree that other Shouts should be able to be used. However, for sanity's sake, I think even this would have to be limited. Say, you get 10 Shout Points to use, then you have to wait a while. A One Level Shout uses 1 point, a Two Level Shout uses 2 points etc. Maybe you get less Shout points at lower character levels and increase to 10 by say level 50.

Tell that to the Thalmor my character toasted last night. Killed three in a single YUL. Granted, they were already on middling health, but the combination of the fire damage + being sent flying across the courtyard did them all in. Later I used the shout again on a group of five: staggered them all, killed one instantly, and Erik and I promptly picked the rest of them all off before the fire was even out.

...A reduced cooldown timer helps a lot with those shouts, I've found. You can reduce the timer by 20% if you get a blessing from a Talos shrine, or if you happen to be wearing an Amulet of Talos.

I totally agree with the original poster here. I clawed my way all the way to the high 70's and by the time you get to that level and usually only run into the stronger bandits and dragons, these shouts barely scratch them with minute long cooldowns. The only shout I use repeativly is Ice Form because its basicly just an area paralyze.

Perhaps a secondary mana bar would be better, by the time you are level 50 you should be able to throw out 5 or 6 yol's and maybe 3 full 3 part fire breaths before you are done for a while. Ice Form is the only thing that seems to even remotely effect the higher level draughers, they just giggle when you fire breath them.

I have never actually killed a dragon with a thum, unless you count the required dragon rend shout towards the end and only one the one its required on. Otherwise its been nothing but our supposely pittiful mortal magic, which as far as I can tell is a lot more efficent and effective then dragon magic.

Oh yes, something like a COMBINATION of two lesser shouts should be possible and "cost" as much as a stronger one. The cooldowns are indeed really weird, sometimes. Some rather poor shouts have very long cooldowns whereas mightier have shorter.

If we had a Dovahkiin perk tree to "upgrade" or specialize our voice, a lot of those complaints could be sorted out.

Some nature of "Shout MP" bar would be perfect. A skill and perk tree is an interesting idea as well.
I certainly support the Shout Stamina idea though. That's what's needed here I think.

I started using the Fortify Restoration Glitch and an Amulet of Talos recently to erase the cool down. It's a lot of fun to actually fight dragons Thu'um to Thu'um, and really makes you feel like you actually are a powerhouse without any weapons at all.

I was actually planning on fighting dragons only with shouts at the beginning, but I've had to give up on that very fast. It's just impossible. A shame, I wanted to feel like I really hid a dragon soul in my human body, and have a nice dragon-to-dragon "talk" with my former brethren.

My favorite shout is the one that turns the enemy into ice crystal and they fall down to the ground. It's one of the few shouts I use.

I also for my assasin use:

-Mark for Death

-Aura Detect

-Slow Time

-Dismay

For my mage he uses:

-Frost Breath

-Ice crystal thing forgot it's name

-Kyne's Peace

-Slow time

--------------

And I thought the cool down with was how much you use the shout. My Frost Breath and Ice crystal recover pretty fast. Fast enough for me to get them out. I use them as crowd control.

Same here. I share your disappointment.


By the way? Best avatar I've ever seen. Best.

Yep, would have really liked to have seen a "cool down" style meter for shouts, where say, each shout has a value it fills the meter by, and once the meter reaches full, you have to wait for it to go down to 0 before you can shout again. More shouts in general would have been interesting too, so that you could actually have a 2 way shouting match with dragons, in the form of shouts and counter shouts....but alas we got a pretty simplistic and uninspired system.

I think the cooldown is a good thing for some shouts. Like iceform. If I could cast iceform 3 times in a row before it triggered a cooldown I could freeze a whole lot of enemies and then kill them one by one... not challenging. Or whirlwind sprint. Ok yes you could get between towns in a heartbeat, but think about using it constantly in combat. Warriors would never have to close distance with mages or archers, and mages and archers would never have to worry about melee combat ever again... even sabre cats won't keep up.

I think that fire breath, ice breath, and unrelenting force should all have cooldowns that are in the single digit seconds for the first level of the shout. Ice form, marked for death, and storm call all need to stay right where they are.

I've used an offensive shout four, maybe five times in total? They're just too much of a hassle. I'll use Become Ethereal for sky-diving, Aura Whisper if I'm feeling paranoid in a crypt and Dragonrend because those damn dragons won't sit their scaly behinds down, but apart from that? Nah. I tried to use Slow Time with my huntress, but it just felt like a bad trip. What's the point of being the Dragonborn if your 'mighty' Thu'um is barely a squeak compared to that of your brethren?

The breath shouts are essentially free damage that you can weave between your attacks, and they are AoE. What svcks is that their 'scaling' (learning more words) often makes them worse. For example, fire breath's DPS is nearly halved when you learn the full word because of its really long cooldown.

Amulet of Talos = Reduced Shout Recharge time.

"Become Ethereal" = Become immune to damage.

Become ethereal for the Dragon's attack, then go and poke it in the face with your sword.

Az

I think this would make shouts too much like spells. To me, shouts should be unique effects. Problem solvers, if you will. For that reason, shouts like unrelenting force, become ethereal, slow time, storm call, etc are very cool. Fire, breath, frost breath, freeze, etc. are boring and no better than spells. There are a few shouts like disarm and dismay that are very poorly implemented. High level creatures are just immune to them, which takes all the fun out of unique dragon powers.

Shouts are a bag of tricks you can reach into for special circumstances or play styles. Spamming them would just be ridiculous.

Agree completely with the OP. I often forget that I can shout because they're of such limited value. The cooldown times are ridiculous, and they apply across the board instead of only to the individual shouts that triggered them (which would be a lot more sane). My favorite shout according to the game? Clear Skies. Yep, I want it to be bright and sunny all the time. I don't like the dingy, grey look of rainy days or the blinding snow. And the cooldown for this shout is like 15 seconds. Perfect.

I'd love a shout perk tree, which becomes available once you kill your first dragon. Your first perk would be the standard 'shouts are x% more powerful', and then you'd have perks which reduce cooldown, effectiveness on people, creatures and dragons and the final perk would add a special ability to your shouts - something like paralyze, or a frenzy effect. Completing the perk tree would end up making Shouts the most powerful weapon in the game, like I feel they should be.

Note: Minor Spoiler.



The dragon rend shout that we eventually get doesn't have a long cooldown (I can't remember what it is). But, I use it on average 3-4 times each time I fight a dragon, and it's very effective as it forces the dragon to land.

Agreed, it's got a good cooldown. I use it, and by the time the cooldown is over I have 1-2 seconds to use it again before the dragon starts flying. They nailed the cooldown on that perfectly.
I understand why Storm Call has a long cooldown - you just changed the weather, creating lightning and clouds and such.

My theory is that the dragon language is very rough on the vocal cords, and shouting is like coughing when your throat is inflamed (Basically a complete [censored]), and the cool downs are basically you recovering yourself as you are just now using the language for the first time.

Just my theory. No real basis behind it.

but that is a very context sensitive shout that is generaly useless aganst all but dragons maybe if a full fus ro dah (or themark of death shout) had that cool down i would use it more

For a simple comparison, look at dragons. They use their breath shout one after the other, no cooldown.
Now I'm not saying I need to spam breath shouts, because I do have other weapons. However, I need to be able to do something after I use Storm Call. I'm fine with shouts having a 2 or 3 minute cooldown, I really am. I just think I should be able to use another shout in between, with its own timer.

In other words, http://www.gamesas.com/user/348291-skooma-fiend/, I don't think you should be able to "spam shouts." Not at all. I think the shouts should have cooldowns, but I also think that different shouuts should have their own. There's no reason that using fire breath should prevent me from using unrelenting force immediately afterwards.

Well said. I completely agree.