Different games have different styles.

Some games have always been about "you need to min/max and powergame or the game will slaughter you."

Some games aren't.

This isn't a new thing - it's been like that throughout the history of videogames.

If you prefer "must powergame" style games, then you're going to run into other games that don't work that way. Me, I like to play different styles of games.... having that variety is nice. Both to cater to different interests, and to have different choices for one's own varying moods.


(In my experience, with Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and now Skyrim, Bethesda games have never been about requiring min/max powergaming to succeed. That's not the style of game they make.)

Because spells costing 933 magicka without perks isn't incentive enough to use magic reduction?

Got enchanting 100 and double enchant perk, went with enchants for different schools reduced cost, mana and mana regen. I'm at 100 destro, conjur and alter - and I roflstomp everyone on master, don't need any fool's -100 reduced cost.
While you go hidden critical strikes one by one with a bow, I just crash the party with dremora lords, storm thralls and fireballs [censored] storm all over the place.

Magic in general in Skyrim seems very...blah. Now this is my first TES game so I can't compare between the series, but in my playthrough I have swapped from mage, to paladin, to assassin, to two hand user, so I think I have a general feel for the combat, and overall it seems to me that melee users have a far more enjoyable and complete game. Magic, without this 'enhancement', costs too much mp while not delivering enough damage. Oh sure npc mages have the god lazers of death, but I just have tickle bolts that maybe did 25% hp to anything worth fighting. On top of that aside from new spells, magic is nonscaling. Complexity or whatever aside I do feel magic needs another look to feel worthwhile comparative to melee.

Some players role play, some don't.
Some players like to be god, some don't.
Some players want to do a lot of damage, some don't.

And it goes on that way. Not everyone plays the way you play.

What I don't understand, what's the big deal. Enjoy the game. It's single player - how I play the game is not going to impact you or anyone else.

And, it's my $90.00 - I'll play this game any way I want to.

As soon as we go on-line and this becomes an MMO, then we can talk again.

/endthread

It's a fetcher, no doubt about it.

Otherwise, I could use those slots for resists, carry, stealth (saving on perk points) and so on.

Working as intended. Warrior class can do 100 damage blows with auto-attack. EASILY with some perks and items. Without loops, or double crafting skills. Not using stamina. Auto-attacks. So when a mage does the 100% cost reduce on spells, everybody goes QQ mode. NOEES, exploit BBQQQQ.

That is a pretty solid idea.



Quite true. It's optional. The only problem that I see with the game is that they lied to us. They said you can be any type of character you want to be. That the game would accommodate your choice of build. Well, it flat out doesn't. The alternative paths to complete quests is quite lacking.

There is also the "forbidden apple" effect. People feel the need to do it just because it is an option. So rather than will themselves not to take a bite, they simply want the apple taken away.


This is very true. A player should not have to go out of their way to not play a certain way simply because doing so with either make them god like or make them a practice dummy. Now, whether or not this particular case is in the way or if you have to go out of your way to trip over it is debatable.



The problem is with the "best character possible" which to many means building your character just one way. This was something they were trying to avoid, even if they did fail. People get these games and then they study the s#!t out of it looking for ways to make the "best character possible". Then they complain that the game is too easy or that there are 'exploits' they want fixed. I think that when it comes to these people, it's not that the game is too easy or that there are exploits, it's not about playing the game at all, but rather it's that the mechanics of the game was too easy to figure out and exploit. Which is also why people complain about it being "dumbed down". Gameplay wise I find this game to be leaps and bounds above Oblivion and steps above Morrowind. Game mechanics wise, it is simpler than either.

The leveling system is a lot smoother and I think the game is all the better for it. You decide on a way you want to play (warrior, mage, stealth) and you pick a race you like that falls under the style you want. Then you just start playing. Start gathering quests and carrying them out. Fallow and enjoy the story that each quests brings.

It's really not hard to unlock 100 enchanting. Over the course of my 38 levels on this mage, I would collect all the souls I could as I went. Same for blacksmithing. Finally last night I was close enough that I just put in 2-3 hours and hit 100 enchanting and 100 blacksmithing. Of course the first thing I did was craft myself the light dragonscale armor. Next thing was to enchant it. Choosing to reduce my destruction cost was a no brainer since I'm a destruction mage. I only use conjuration for summoned weapons for soul trap, and for atronachs.

Lvl 38. 100 ench, 100 bs, 68 dest, 62 conj. other skills are meaningless but roughly 50 something's in lock pick and speech.

So there's been a fair bit of feedback. I'm kind of happy to see that it might prove vital to have free dest spells, as currently only fireball/ice storm/chain lightening drain any considerable amount and I could still shoot off around 10 dual cast before running out.

I think enchanting is still kind of broken tho. Up to around lvl 80ish it's basically useless. I had to use a steel plate helm for a long time because it had -17% dest reduction, and my gilded elven helmet I could only enchant to 14% or something. Basically it takes a long time for it to be a useful skill, and then suddenly it's super duper powerful.

I don't really care if destruction spells are free if it takes 10 of them to kill a mob while a sword can kill that mob in 3 hits... Free spells clearly is a bit broken but it's the last thing about magic that needs fixing. That said I have a different idea which is to get rid of the larger spell cost effects and replace them with other effects.

Make Fortify Destruction increase Destruction spell damage instead
Restoration can heal more and do more damage to undead/turn undead for longer
Alteration can have a duration increase effect
Illusion can have a duration increase effect
Conjuration can have a duration increase effect

That would be two birds with one stone in my opinion. Doubled durations aren't overpowered, except maybe on paralyze (which tends not to work well at the level you get it anyway) and frenzy.

After this you still have the weaker spell cost reduction effects, the ones with the +10% magicka regeneration.

Good points here. NPCs have endless super magic, but everyone who is a vet of TES will glitch up magic to compete. I can't remember the last time I heard of someone who actually used the OUt of the Box magic system in Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim.

I remember magic in Oblivion being very lame if you didn't cheat/exploit.

Then you weren't trying hard enough, in oblivion even without cheating it was easy to get overpowered spells. You just had to learn how to use the custom magic system to make the most powerful spells possible and that could still easily be done without exploits like stacking weakness to magicka effects.

Bethblog already mentioned they will be taking a pass with "Balance" and "Exploits" once they iron out the hardware stability end. Exploits and Balance in Skyrim start and end with craft skills, I expect the 100pct will be re-balanced in future patches.

You can stick it up your.... Wait, I'm above flaming.

I don't [censored]in mind, if you can become a god by maxing your character, care to guess why? Because I am the [censored]in Dovahkiin, Tiber Septim was Dovahkiin and ascended to godhood by Talos. I agree that some enemies are to easy on Master, I mean if even Dragon Priests proof no challenge, something definitely is off, but I can't seem to care, why? Because you can make it your own challenge by not using every possible angle! If you are not content with that then GTFO and play DnD...

@R3sistance

You speak the truth my brother. A simple self made touch destruction spell without any weakness effects could make the game incredibly easy.

Bad design, more like. Almost no way to increase spell damage, but ability to render mana irrelevant? Yeah, that's the best way to ensure playing a mage is exciting, challenging and fun. Clearly. Honest. No sarcasm here.

I suspect that "make a custom set of spells that takes advantage of the debuff code to stack multiple weaknesses on a target, thereby generating semi-infinite damage" is probably what he meant by "exploit".

I remember the soul gems being capped low compared to MW. Putting weakness to fire, and then fire on the same spell, how was that an exploit?

I guess I was more of an "enchanter" type, never really did heavy destruction type casting. Was all about enchanting items, and that was majorly nerfed in oblivion compared to MW

I find it funny that this is one of the reasons they limited the number of armor slots yet they still make it possible.

Don't you also need the first perk maxed and that one perk that says, "+25% to skill enchantments?

Thing is, you don't have to max your character to become a god. its extremely easy in this game, and even doable by mistake.



This

I think a minimum mana cost for a spell headshots any complication. Same thing for weapons, max damage per weapon.

Done.

They already do this for armor. 80% maximum physical damage reduction, not including shield block.

You can use as many force multipliers as you want, but exceeding the min/max has no effect.

Simplest way to do it, fairest way for all play styles, since there is no *right* way to play.

The problem with this is, it becomes the only choice. No regen stackers, no magicka stackers. Just reduction or bust, especially on Master.

The base reduction of spells from Destruction skill # should be increased. The current .25% makes Ench-reduction the only choice. Gladly mods help with this.


This results in more choices and builds, while still having something called magicka to manage.

You can hot swap gear and clothes, rings etc are pretty damn light. It is fairly easy to have 0 magicka cost for every school.

And for those who say it while yes if you don't like it you don't have to use it, if it had been balanced in the first place like capped at 80% would anyone have really complained that free magicka was not possible? Sure some people might say it should have been 90% given the costs of spells or whatever but pretty much no one would have expected free magicka as an option. If they balance things now they really are not taking any real choices from you, in fact there would be more substantial choices in the game instead of the on off turn a blind eye and pretend wide swaths of the game doesn't exist or break the game.

Nobody said you have to use it. A bunch of people complained on how spell making was so overpowered, and look what happened to it.