It's not that simple, unfortunately. The only reason the cap looks low is due to the profession synergy loop on which we've founded this thread. Remove even one of those professions, and the Armor Cap is unreachable using Light Armor, and requires fairly advanced Heavy Armor to reach. I think we should expect them to remove either the +Smithing enchant or the +Smithing potion from the game, or to nerf both heavily in the next patch.

Shield are another interesting thing. It appears they work the say way Elemental Resistance does with magic... by negating 85% of the damage that gets through your Armor. Block is suddenly a lot more useful.

i really doubt that beth will patch ANY of this at all.... they didnt with morrowind or oblivion either.

it would actually have been very simple to nerf all of this to "normal" leveles. by just nerfing the entire entchantment three back to oblivion. seriously by allowing to have FOUR +% based dmg entchants at once each with 40% every moron would have seen that this is op but not bethesda. because in the end the entchant three is what makes these numbers even possible.

without entchants at all you cant get better than 187 dmg on deadric swords, which would actually be a fair value of dmg without beeing to op.

I don't see a reason to patch it.

But by limiting enchantments in that way, you're severely limiting player creativity, which is a good way to piss players off even more.

I would suggest they make the +smithing potions and enchantments half as effective. instead of +25/29 enchantment, cap it at +13/15. LIkewise, cap the potion at +60%, not +130%. Now we have a total of +120%, not +246%, which keeps everything in line, and doesn't remove any of the fun complexity that is the crafting system.

But be that as it may, this is a valid technique, not the exploit everyone seems to think it is. Even without chaining, you can get +25 x4 fortify smithing enchantments, and +25 x4 +alchemy enchantments. adding an extra 4% here or 7% there isn't changing the numbers that much.

I agree. I'm just playing devils advocate at this point.

They only need to get rid of the enchant potion or alchemy/smithing enchants and everything will be ok. A middle ground would be to not let the player brew his own enchant potions or make them cap out on 25% (the highest vendor pot).


hidden armor rating = 40 for wearing (chest) armor + 20 for each additional piece worn = without shield it will be always 100 AR
damage reduction% = (displayed armor rating + hidden armor rating) * 0.12

So the damage reduction of 567 displayed is close to our mathematical number of 672 ( 672-100=572)

I have trouble believing they will remove an entire mechanic. I think they'd rather nerf it than remove it.

I never doubted your numbers. They just refined the answer your provided. Previously we knew it was 'between 500 and 672'. Now we know it's around 570 specifically. I'm still trying to validate their numbers, but it never hurts to have more people working on the problem.

It isn't possible. According to the post summary:


As you can see, you can't hit 672 armor without at least one HA perk. The lightest heavy armor is wolf armor. It has a good armor:weight ratio, but is fairly low armor. At level 40 smithing, I can make wolf armor (exquisite) and steel plate armor (superior). The helmet, gloves, and boots finish with the same armor rating, the chest piece on the steel plate has +12 armor (I"m sure) for an extra +10 weight (not 100% sure).

Assuming you are going to 100 smithing, your best bet is probably the Dragonplate armor. It appears to be designed specifically for people that don't take the HA "no weight" perk, because it offers a better armor:weight ratio than Daedric. Helmet is ugly, but if you aren't taking HA perks you can use any helmet.

Sorry if this has been answered before and it is probably a noob question but:

What is the cap on the +Fortify Enchanting potion? I am currently in a loop of making +Fortify Enchanting potions in order to enchant +Fortify Alchemy to gear to make a better +Fortify Enchanting potion. My current +Enchanting potion is 31% I expect I can make one better than that; though after that how much more should I be trying for? Thanks in advance.

80% cap needed
1,2% as our multiplier for AR to get to the cap percent ( 1% would be the without shield, 1,2% with shield )

80% / 1,2% = X ( AR rating visible+hidden)
0.8 / 0.0012 = 667 AR
120 AR is hidden (with shield) then 667 - 120 = visible 547 AR needed to cap armor


Its on first page, max enchanting pot is +32%, max smithing pot is +130%

I meant validate in game; thanks though. Also, not certain the shield counts towards the hidden armor rating.

If you dont take the shield into the equation then its:

80% / 1% = 800 AR
800 AR - 100 hidden AR = 700 visible AR

This would prove our values and the wiki values, because our 672 AR value was for non-shield user while they`re 547 AR value was for shield users.

I would think a skill cap would be the most sensible way to restrict this. If you are already a master smith (100) skill it doesn't really make sense that potions and enchantments would make you much better. Maybe there is some level of insight or dexterity that normal humans can't achieve without the aid of magic, but I think that would be closer to 125 skill, not 230+. From a "roleplaying realism" perspective, this would make sense. You could almost hit the cap with steel armor + perks (takes 126 smithing according to uesp) or glass armor + perks.

Of course, a patch isn't really needed, because this is a user-choice issue.

I was wondering why this is necessary because UESP says that armor caps at 567 (around there). Since damage reduction caps out at 80 or 85%, what's the point of getting all the way to 2419?

Your skill lvl determines to what lvl you can upgrade a certain item. A perk just doubles your base skill by two for the corresponding item type.
So with 100 skill you could make a flawless steal bow but with the steal perk it goes up to 200 skill points so it gets legendary.

In this way you can use a potion (50% smithing) to up your 100 skill to 150 without the perk to make epic gear. Its fair that a perked smith gets the same benefit and makes his 200 skill go up to 300 skill point and make better legendary gear.

If you use +smithing gear you can get an additional +80% to smithing so a non-perked smith using pots can go from 150 skill to 270 skill and perked smiths from 300 to 540.

This normal way isnt overpowered and makes the people perking smthing have benefits for investing they`re perks. Its just that using +uped smithing enchants ( 116% uped from 80% ) and +uped smithing pots (130% from 50%) is to much for the system to handle

With the new findings about magic absorb and the atronach stone or w/e over the lord stone, is breton the way to go over orc? I want to start a new char and plan on min-maxing. Not sure if orc or breton is the best now. Also, I'm looking to use as much +archery on my gear along with one handed so I can do both, so I would probably have to replace some +magic resist with that, which was making me lean more towards breton seeing as I would still be able to hit 85%. Thoughts?

So, anyone take into account using the Notched Pickaxe when crafting? It gives a minor boost to smithing, so shouldn't it theoretically result in higher weapon outputs?

Its located at the top of the Throat of the World, near the ebony veins up there.

Orc is better. With breton you can become immune to magic for 60 seconds but with the right enchants you are already something like 98% immune. The real "threat" is physical damage, which the orc power can reduce.

If they're using a PC there's a "fix." Console not. Kind of guessed by now that I'm a PC advocate lol.

At this point, it's entirely up to you. You hit so hard as either race, it doesn't matter which you choose. Breton will make getting MR easier, but since you don't need to spend enchant slots on Armor skill due to the cap, there's no shortage of slots available. Take your pick.

I've never heard of it. Does it stack with normal Smithing bonuses?

You can enchant any weapon with fortify enchants due to a glitch. I tried fortify 1-handed and alchemy but it had no effect.

Its an easter egg item, but it can be disenchanted to allow for the "Notched Pickaxe" weapon enchantment. In its text it describes it gives a boost to smithing, but does not provide a number, so its hard to tell. I was kind of mentioning it here so that it can enter into this whole dialog of the metagame of skyrim.

Once again, you have to go to the top of the Throat of the World, pretty much requiring the quest to meet Parthanaax.

First, you should know that I can't yet play the game, so I apologize in advance if I ask a glaringly stupid question.

I'm looking to min/ max a Warrior via the methods set forth in this thread. I'm leaning towards a build similar to http://skyrimcalculator.com/#2776.

However, I read elsewhere that Tower of Strength appears to be broken, and in light of the Armor Cap, I'm wondering if a http://skyrimcalculator.com/#2779 might be more effective due to less weight/ faster movement speed. Am I correct in assuming that 5/5 Agile Defender + 1/1 Custom Fit + 1/1 Unhindered with Legendary Dragonscale Armor would hit the cap with better movement speed and less weight than Heavy Armor?

Slightly off-topic: is Stamina regen useful in late game on Master difficulty? I'm debating between Windwalker in Light Armor and Avoid Death in Restoration.

Thanks for your help.

Interesting. I'll do a before and after test tonight to see if I can determine it's actual value. Never thought I'd consider dual wielding pickaxes.

The problem with going Light Armor is it adds another 3 perks, assuming you still want to craft or improve Daedric weaponry. Also, if you get the Steed Standing Stone, Armor weight and Movement speed stop being an issue, so you can go with whatever is aesthetically pleasing for you.

Can't help you with the Master questions; I'm not bothering since it doesn't change enemy behavior, just boosts their stats.

According to UESP, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Notched_Pickaxe#Notched_Pickaxe.



Where are the 3 wasted points? According to the talent calculator I linked earlier (which could easily be wrong), you can simply drop an extra point into Dragon Smithing after Daedric Smithing. Are they not linked?


How about on normal difficulty settings? I rarely had an issue with Stamina in Oblivion and Morrowind, so I suspect Windwalker isn't very useful in Skyrim either.

I'm pretty sure I didn't see this but I apologize if it's been asked.

The instructions say to make 4 fortify skill potions. I assume they don't stack but you need one per item for the time involved?

Also, is the 30 seconds on the potion in real time or game time? ie, if the game is in a menu is it counting the 30 seconds or is it "paused" as in Morrowind/Oblivion?