All quests should be refusable. : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:12 am

I'll try to answer that for him

Because it clutters up the already terribly designed GPS/journal system.

Oh of course. Shame on Bethesda for making a far easier to use UI than Oblivion, and all pervious titles. Bethesda should be scolded for making things eaiser on the eyes and ease of use, makes perfect sence.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:18 pm

A lot of these quests give you a choice at the end.

No, the majority really don't. "Ignoring the task" is not a choice recognized by the game, it's a non-choice brought on by the lack of recognized options. For many quests, just starting it is bad enough.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:58 pm

The problem is there's no distinction between 'quests I didn't want to do ever' and 'quests I didn't want to do at the time'. Given the lack of a proper journal, the vast majority of quests have very little information recorded down, thus it's nearly impossible to tell what quest is what, and why it wasn't done yet. I can't count the number of times I saw "Talk to Aventus whatshisname" under Miscellaneous Quests, having to enable the magic compass marker to find out where he is (because, you know, apparently having "in Windhelm about (spoiler)" is too much), travel all the way there, then realize

Spoiler

it's the quest that starts off the Dark Brotherhood and requires me to break in to the house

which my character doesn't want to get involved with.. it gets old fast, and that's not an isolated "quest".

If it's supposed to represent things your character knows about, and not actively doing, then keep it to dialog options for a small set of appropriate characters. I don't need to see it every time I'm looking over what quests I actually want to do.

And there's something to be said about cleanliness and efficiency. If more than half the entries in some list are junk that you never want to ever bother with, there's absolutely no good reason to keep them there. There's no good reason to put it there in the first place either, if you know ahead of time you won't ever do it.

The problem is that not everyone see it the way YOU do. The problerm is that if we could refuse/ignore/delete quests we could deal with them in a satisfactory way for us while you could merrily continue on your way letting them pile up in your journal. The PROBLEM is lack of OPTIONS.

I see this as the best option then, ignoring quests in your journal. If you don't like a quest being there, you can hide it. If you decide to do it later on, you can unhide it. If you don't want to ever do it, leave it hidden forever. :smile:

Does that solve your problem?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:35 am

Oh of course. Shame on Bethesda for making a far easier to use UI than Oblivion, and all pervious titles.

Other than the font size, Oblivion's UI was better than Skyrim's. One of the most popular Skyrim mods right now is SkyUI, which makes the UI much more Oblivion-like. Skyrim's UI is essentially "what would an Apple UI look like if they ignored all usability concerns and didn't bother properly modifying for various systems?"

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:19 am

I see this as the best option then, ignoring quests in your journal. If you don't like a quest being there, you can hide it. If you decide to do it later on, you can unhide it. If you don't want to ever do it, leave it hidden forever. :smile:

That would be a step up, but I still find it unnecessary to dump quests into my quests log that I know I'm never going to do. Oblivion never had this problem, and there was no issue with quest entries getting stuck in your journal... it was not a problem to find quests or anything, either. It's like Skyrim needs to make sure you can't ever forget about anything the that may be possibly related to a quest, just in case. Immediately enter a town -> automatic scripted event -> quest added. Walk to close to someone -> scripted pvssyr -> quest added. Pick up an item -> quest added (and you can't get rid of the item from then on).

It's very presumptive in assuming that I care about these things and want them in my quest log. If I cared, I'd ask about it, and if I didn't like it, I'd say no to avoid taking the quest. Clean and easy. But in Skyrim, it's added automatically, and even in the rare cases you have the opportunity to say "no", it's treated as "maybe later" and leaves the quest entry active... just in case. Your inventory also gets cluttered with quest items for quests you will never do. I'm a grown person, I know when I don't want to do something.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:26 am

it`s a very bad system because players decision have no consequences to live with later on in the game world. For good or bad.

No idea but I did something wrong with one of my quests in Markham and now I am KOS by the guards everytime I visit that city...so uhhh...yea....if you say so

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:16 am

He`s right. There should be an option to flatly reject an offer, even if you might change your mind later.

What if you change your mind and you can't find your way back to the start of that quest?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm

No idea but I did something wrong with one of my quests in Markham and now I am KOS by the guards everytime I visit that city...so uhhh...yea....if you say so

That's a bug. Once you escape, you're not supposed to have a bounty.

What if you change your mind and you can't find your way back to the start of that quest?

Then do it on your next character. If you tell someone "no", then it should mean "no". If you may want to do it later, don't say "no".

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:07 am

Then do it on your next character. If you tell someone "no", then it should mean "no". If you may want to do it later, don't say "no".

This will put some people of, people who aren't as methodical as you when it comes to quests. I honestly think the best option, is to have most quests refusable, with the option to pick them up again by talking to them. Also you are able to hide/unhide quests in your journal. Having a no means no option is silly, I may want to come back and do the quest.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:41 am

Hi,

it`s a very bad system because players decision have no consequences to live with later on in the game world. For good or bad.

I know that religion and deities are very important and actually exist lore-wise. It`s just that my chars don`t like them. If deities are so b-d-y powerful they shouldn`t need mortals to run their errrands and solving their problems.

It would be cool if people like me could get maluses for being religiously indifferent/hostile, like no healing at altars, a random curse now and then to make me realize the errors of my ways, services refusal...

Rgds, Haldir

So you basically want a system where I don't want a quest forced on me but if I don't accept that quest then I'll never be able to play it, that would be lost content in my eyes. The System is fine and very organized for people if they want to do those quests, nobody is forcing you to do the quests.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:59 am

Hi,

I don't recall people getting up in arms about not having a way to separate quests in Fallout 3 or New Vegas. What makes Skyrim so different that it deserves this critique?

Rgds warpenergybot

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:27 pm

If someome offers you a quest to go get a sword for them im a ruin, you have a choice. You either do it, or you don't. But that option is still there if you change your mind.

Why would the option to do something disappear? It doesn't in real life.

If a friend of mine offers me the chance to go get him something he needs bad, that offer is now a quest entry in my journal (or mind). I can either get it for him, or not. Just like a quest in Skyrim. Even if you start a quest, don't think of it as something you HAVE to do, it's a possibility, an option, just because you can RP your character denying the quest, but the choice is always still there, just like if you say no to a friend irl, the choice does not simply disappear from your mind, you still can do it even if you said no once.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:57 am

If someome offers you a quest to go get a sword for them im a ruin, you have a choice. You either do it, or you don't. But that option is still there if you change your mind.

Why would the option to do something disappear? It doesn't in real life.

You aren't constantly reminded that you should get the sword every time you think about what you're doing, particularly if you don't want to get the sword and don't care about the guy. The guy might not appreciate you taking so long to get it, and ask someone else to do it instead.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:25 pm

You aren't constantly reminded that you should get the sword every time you think about what you're doing, particularly if you don't want to get the sword and don't care about the guy. The guy might not appreciate you taking so long to get it, and ask someone else to do it instead.

But the option IS still there. Just like in real life. And it doesn't "constantly remind" you. You simply uncheck the quest. You are over exaggerating the issue, it's not a big deal at all.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:39 am

And it doesn't "constantly remind" you. You simply uncheck the quest.

Unchecking the quest does not get it out of your quest log. I'm not exaggerating the issue, the number of unwanted quests in my quest log is enough to make any usability student cry. It's difficult to tell the difference between the quests I didn't want to do, and the ones I just haven't gotten around to doing. In fact, recently I ended up doing a quest I didn't want to do because I couldn't get it out of my journal and there was no information about why it wasn't done (I only remembered after I had a quest item stuck in my inventory and I was staring down a homeless bum that wanted said item).

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:17 am

Unchecking the quest does not get it out of your quest log. I'm not exaggerating the issue, the number of unwanted quests in my quest log is enough to make any usability student cry. It's difficult to tell the difference between the quests I didn't want to do, and the ones I just haven't gotten around to doing. In fact, recently I ended up doing a quest I didn't want to do because I couldn't get it out of my journal and there was no information about why it wasn't done (I only remembered after I had a quest item stuck in my inventory and I was staring down a homeless bum that wanted said item).

Literally millions of people absolutely love the UI and quest log. I don't get what you aim to gain here. You're in the minority.

Remember a simple fact: for every one usee complaining here, there are 1000 playing the game loving every second of it. The game has sold 20 million copies. In other words, "they're doin it right".

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:23 am

No idea but I did something wrong with one of my quests in Markham and now I am KOS by the guards everytime I visit that city...so uhhh...yea....if you say so

Don't attack the guards(or the maniacs) and this won't happen. Just sit back and watch.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:00 am

I'll try to answer that for him

Because it clutters up the already terribly designed GPS/journal system.

It's rather easy to navigate through 50 quests and 100 side-objectives in Skyrim.. :/ ?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:45 pm

Literally millions of people absolutely love the UI and quest log. I don't get what you aim to gain here. You're in the minority.

Remember a simple fact: for every one usee complaining here, there are 1000 playing the game loving every second of it. The game has sold 20 million copies. In other words, "they're doin it right".

Just because a lot of people are playing the game and liking it (including me) doesn't mean every aspect of the game is flawless. You can have fun and enjoy a game even when you see issues that could be (vastly) improved.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:49 am

Just because a lot of people are playing the game and liking it (including me) doesn't mean every aspect of the game is flawless. You can have fun and enjoy a game even when you see issues that could be (vastly) improved.

And I disagree that the aspect in question is broken.

Navigating quest is quite easy. I find this the best journal in the series.

What do you make of that? Am I wrong?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:58 am

What do you make of that? Am I wrong?

An opinion isn't wrong. I don't agree with it though, because I don't see how a "journal" that records so little useful information and gets clogged up with junk you don't care about is better than Oblivion's (which gave notes on individual stages and tended to not get filled with quests you had no intention of doing), but that's my opinion.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:56 pm

I want simply a [Delete Quest] option in the quest menu. Simple as.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:27 pm

Ignore it, don't mark it, don't look at it, don't go where it says you to go. Easy, this is just like with the rest of the series, heck, every other RPG out there.

So in real life, if I just see a poster about a concert of a band I hate, I must go to that concert just because I've read about it?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:53 pm

Ignore it, don't mark it, don't look at it, don't go where it says you to go. Easy, this is just like with the rest of the series, heck, every other RPG out there.

Most other free-form, non-linear RPGs don't force quests into your journal. And again, it makes no distinction between quests that you wanted to do later, and quests that forced their way in that you don't want anything to do with. It's not fun getting tricked into doing a quest you didn't want to do, or having to scope out a quest target for the 5th time because you don't remember what "Talk to Oobala Moobala" is about, after 100+ hours of play time.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:43 pm

Most other free-form, non-linear RPGs don't force quests into your journal. And again, it makes no distinction between quests that you wanted to do later, and quests that forced their way in that you don't want anything to do with. It's not fun getting tricked into doing a quest you didn't want to do, or having to scope out a quest target for the 5th time because you don't remember what "Talk to Oobala Moobala" is about, after 100+ hours of play time.

Oh really, so that's why I have those millions of journal entries in Morrowind from guilds I'm not even part of, that's why there are so many journal entries from quests I've refused that still says "go to X and talk to Y" in case I change my mind in Baldur's Gate...