Having completed the dark brotherhood guild which is probably one of the best out of the thieves and mages. I really don't understand why some people would choose not to follow the dark brotherhood guild based on moral grounds.

yes killing in real life is wrong but this is a game. so why do you apply real world morals to a game that offers a really good gaming experience.

Because as well as the brotherhood being a rather good story you also get given some really great items along the way. So I really don't get why you would want to pass up on so many great things all because of real world morals.

oooooohhhh. morals.

If you don't already understand, nothing we can tell you will make you understand.

Your thread title says "playing with mortals". I thought it'd be another "where's multiplayer" thread.


Anyways, I somewhat agree. At least, there's always room for different characters. Good, bad, etc.. It'd be a shame if you just avoided one whole segment of the game. It's OK. Baby Jesus won't mind (probably not true. He does mind. You're all going to hell).

I agree with your topic and I agree with your post. But I don't think we can play as immortals so I don't know how much I'm missing out.

I'm a moral relativist in real life, I think that any action can be justified under specific circumstances. In game I'm a good guy who believes in the triumph of good over evil.

people are different, plus they apply morals for role playing. i personaly never play the good guy...

TGM in the console

Being old school DB, I disliked the questline in Skyrim. When you start to dis the Night Mother, I start having problems. I was glad when it was over. As far as the members, the ONLY member I liked was Babett, and that is saying something, considering.

The one I absolutely dispised other than the main gal was Three Dog.

If I swallowed the bad taste I had for them I could make it through and let my char do what she does best...kill.

Other than that, it was great. I enjoyed taking out the marks. I just hated to have to report when I was done.

Why can't I become the next Talos?

because he's still around?

All right, all right, I get it.

But how about Jyggalag? Haven't seen him in 200 years or so.
Plus, no one would know me. It's perfect!

Back on topic: Unless you like to break your own roleplaying rules, I don't see my "Knights of the Nine" inspired character as an assassin working for Sithis.

Considering that the DB doesn't care about morality when accepting contracts and that you, as a DB operative, are expected to carry out contracts without questioning them, I'm curious if you're seriously asking why people could have moral objections to randomly killing people fairly arbitrarily chosen by your boss?

No, "killing" is not bad, neither in the game nor in real life. Murder, on the other hand, is morally problemtic most of the time and that applies to both the game and the real world.

I've killed hundreds of NPCs in the game and my characters don't mind at all, since they all had it coming. It's not the killing that's morally difficult to justify to my characters, it's the fact that I have to kill people chosen arbitrarily without having the right to say "[censored] you" to my supposed "bosses" and penning them in the dead-book, if and when my characters feel it's imperative to do so.

Giving outlaws a dose of martial law is what it is, but killing arbitrarily chosen people with the rotten luck of having pissed off people who can get a contract accepted by the DB is obviously something that only sociopaths and assorted morally deficient people can be proud of.

Dovahkiin is essential code in the TalOS operating system. The Thalmor are hacking in all quarters, but the firewalls are up.

To black spider I agree to this in the real world. but where do you draw the line in the real world. Killing flies, spiders, mice, sheep and cattle. But in a game why not be the bad guy during that bad guy quest then switch back to being the good guy again.

I play the game as the good guy only killing when attacked by others but I still accepted that the dark brotherhood was just another part of the game and just went along with it.

I played the airport scene in mw3 I think it was (I'm not a cod fan by the way and never will be). And when the terrorists started killing innocent people I didn't kill any of the people during that scene due to it seeming wrong. But I did choose to play that level and not skip it so that I got to see and play the full content of the game.

TIM is immortal using console TGM is God Mode

Or we just don't care because it's all fake, while enjoying the challenges the DB provides.

I play with whatever the characters morals are. I'll probably play the DB questline when I make a character that looks like Kefka, then I'll get a set of Jester's Clothes and become the next Mehrunes Dagon.

On a side note, I always find it difficult to play evil characters because I always feel guilty. Frankly, I sometimes think that people who don't care about morals when they're playing such open-ended games to be a little unrestrained in their actions in the real world. The only thing that's really stopping people like this is fear of punishment and real life consequences. In total anarchy, I'd put my money on these people becoming equivalent to Fallout raiders.

Regarding part 1, I draw the line in the real world when you kill animals in an inhumane fashion or when you're killing people that shouldn't be killed. I've got no problem with Osama being assassinated and while I think the Israelis are occasionally overzeleous, I don't really have a problem with an attack helo being used to take out known terrorist leaders, even if they are hiding behind women and children. Some times the hostages can't be saved and sacrificing them is the lesser evil. I also don't have a problem with the death penalty for particularly nasty crimes when there's no doubt whatsoever about guilt, at least not in theory. In practice I find it intolerable that mistakes can happen. You can let someone out of a prison but you can't resurrect someone who is already executed.

Generally, I place human sustenance above animals' right to life and I don't put too much value into the rights of violent criminals, though I do put great value into not punishing the wrong person. Since the "wrong person" can go to prison, the idea of treating prisoners like human garbage doesn't work well with me, and since the accuracy of convictions could be greatly affected by the government of a country, I put value into the concept of civilized and humane punishment of all criminals, even those who don't actually deserve it.

Regarding part 2, I have to say that either your character is good or he is not. Being good means doing the right thing because it's the right thing, even if it comes at a price. You can't join the thieves guild unless you can justify how stealing from other people is "good". You can't get the black star. And obviously you can't do DB quests because being a hitman just isn't "good". There's also a number of Daedric quests you have to refuse, fail, or stay away from. That's being "good".

You can also be grey in various shades. For instance, you could be sort of light grey and borderline good without actually having the moral sentiment required to be actual good. Think of it as "honorably neutral". You care about good and evil but you also care about yourself, since you can't do much good if you're dead or dirt poor. Even so, if you have options then you prefer the good option, unless the evil option is not too evil and pays a whole lot better.

Of course there's also the dark grey version of the above where you care very little about laws or rules and do what benefits you, but still without the complete self-devotion and lack of empathy that characterizes true evil. You don't mind screwing over random people, you don't mind making them starve a little bit, but it doesn't bring you any pleasure to screw people over either. And you wouldn't starve children to death for a mere few coins, after all. You may be a bastard but you're not a [censored] bastard.

Finally, regarding part 3, I don't think you can claim to be a good guy if you "go along with" the DB. It's a shame to miss content but they're so obviously evil that there's no joining them if you want to be "good". In fact, when you consider their line of work, it's really problematic for you to not deal with them right away. Every day you let them live is another day you're risking the lives of innocent people.

I haven't played MW3 and I doubt I will, so I have to say that I honestly don't know what goes on in the airport scene. If it involves shooting captured terrorists in the face to gain information about non-captured terrorists who are killing innocent people then count me in as a proponent. Torture is generally a bad thing, but it's worth a shot under certain circumstances. Those circumstances are rare, of course, but it could happen.

Or we do care because we're role-playing our characters. Then again, of course you're right. Who am I to expect Skyrim-players to actually care for RP'ing anything? It's not like it's an RPG, is it?

No, it's an action game with stats.

Personally? Not a religious thing (I'm not really into that), but I just don't really enjoy doing strongly "evil" things in games. It feels uncomfortable. Since I play games for enjoyment, not to feel uncomfortable, I generally avoid these strongly evil questlines and games. I've never done the DB questline in Oblivion, for example. Doubt that I'll do the Skyrim one. Or about half of the Daedric quests (they seem to go much darker than they did in OB.)

Similarly, I wasn't really able to do a "bad" playthrough in Fallout:New Vegas. Just can't betray the Goodsprings people who saved my life, to the Powder Gangers. And I definitely could never side with the Legion... had a hard enough time with them on a good playthrough -

Some people have a good time roleplaying characters they've designed, or even roleplaying themselves in fantasy form. As such, they wouldn't make decisions or take courses of action that don't make sense for the character. Much like imagining Frodo Baggins doing a freestyle rap in Sauron's general direction whilst standing atop Mt. Doom. It wouldn't make any sense. Hmm ...as a better example, imagine that every character in Skyrim acted just like you. They'd run around killing random people and animals for no reason, they would be fearless, breaking into houses and looting them, the line for the Dark Brotherhood would stretch from Falkreath to Dawnstar, and dragons wouldn't stand a chance; it would be pure anarchy, pure madness, and pure nonsense.

That all said, with the Elder Scrolls, I always go in with a character just to check everything out. My freedom character, if you will. No morals and no personality, just me having fun playing the game. And then, I'll bring in a character with a little more personality. For instance, my current character, a Nord warrior, absolutely despises magic, and does not use it or anything remotely related to it. He'll occasionally use enchanted weaponry, but only in the most dire of situations. While the Thu'um may be considered magic, he doesn't consider it so, and uses it proudly. I'd never bring him to the College of Winterhold for any reason, other than to exterminate them, perhaps, but it isn't in his nature. Nor would he join the Dark Brotherhood, because he isn't an assassin, or fond of killing without reason. He is the son of a blacksmith, and he was trained for the Imperial army, before rebelling and returning to Skyrim to join the Stormcloaks. So while he can kill, he does it for a greater purpose or self-defense, never for money. But he is short-tempered, very much so. He already had to pay a fine for punching one of the Battle-Born's in the face in the marketplace, just because they were being rude.

I've always believed that, while a video game might present you with so much graphic and story, it doesn't mean you can't use your imagination. It really compliments the experience.

Indeed. And people wonder why old timers in here are being so critical about the future direction of the TES series.


Same thing here. Which is why, after nine years, I still haven't managed to complete the Morag Tong faction in Morrowind. I've tried a couple of times but it's just not working out very well. And those executions are actually legal, as it happens. You get official writ of exeuctions that you can cash in after any murder. And since they're blank, you can provoke your target instead, kill him in self defense, and keep the writ for a rainy day when you feel like executing someone at random.

I've also never had much luck with a sith in KOTOR or even a regularly evil character in the BG series. It's actually quite a limitation.

That's why I play different characters with different paths. I do admit though playing a scum is hard for me and those characters get the least play as I burn out and have to go do good for a while with another character.