"Battlemagespellsword" : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:17 pm

I played as a Dark Elf Spellsword and I had a good time until about level 15. Then I made a new build. If I ever go the Spellsword route again I'm going to use conjuration, alteration and restoration.

I might try that too. I'm still having fun with mine at level 20, but I'm not sure how much longer Destruction is going to be viable. She's becoming more of a 1H/archer with Restoration, mostly to support the tank that I usually have with me (spellswords are described as a troop-support class, so I like to have a troop to support). It actually works pretty well to let my tank get partially surrounded while I stick-and-move around the outside with my stamina-absorbing Dwarven mace, casting Healing Hands or Fast Heal as necessary. Followers tend to strafe into your line of fire anyway, so once things go up close Destruction can be more trouble than it's worth. If I can peel an enemy off to the side I might dual-cast flames for some quick bandit barbeque, but I mostly just bash away. I play on Adept at the highest and drop it if i have to. My major failure has been Illusion. Just can't get it to work.

Staffs can work really well against dragons. I've used a Firebolt staff and Wabbajack to good effect on blood dragons. I've read that all dragons are vulnerable to flames, regardless of type. Anyway, I have a "do a bit of everything" character that I'm going to try with both staffs for a while as a sort of spell-less battlemage. Should be a blast.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:39 am

Hello folks,

I would like to establish that although this is a build help thread, it does have a little twist.

So here is my issue. I have attempted many times to try to build a Battlemage/spellsword and by level 20, the damage output is horrid and due to balancing Life / Magicka, I can be gobbled up by Blood Dragons in one hit. Not to mention random Bandit goons. Level of play is Expert, for some difficult challenges. So I need some help rounding out my build and due to my constant fear of how weak Destruction is, I wonder if I should sub it out. I could just go pure mage but I have explanation of why not further down

Now for the twist I promised. I would love to play an Altmer (and hopefully make a decent looking one too. Not looking like he has jaundice and horrid green eyes) battle leader/ strategist that aims to help the Empire against the fight with Thalmor. I find it fitting for an Altmer rather than a Breton for the battlemage due to the amount to time it would take to be skilled both in magic and combat (Plus it adds extra drama in RP'ing). I would like him/her to be heir to a throne if I can squeeze it in between the lore. Father was a tyrant. I would like this character to be powerful on the battle field, and cause fear among foes.

Anyways, generally and what is somewhat disheartening in the Elderscrolls series, is that almost all leaders are Warriors or Knights. So that means I pure mage is out of the question. So I will have to mix warrior and magic. And I cannot go just pure warrior because I always feel.... DER I IZ WAzzar when I play a warrior 8(.

So back to normal build talk:

One-Handed (we could go dual handed or maybe sub with 2 handed so I could block?), Light Armor (would prefer because glass looks cool and steed stone feels like cheating with heavy armor), Enchanting, Destruction???, and of course Respite in Restoration

I feel like I could just go Conjuration but just summoning a dumby doesn't feel very epic like throwing fireballs across the field. It would also be nice to incorporate illusion (imagine how devastating it would be to have your own troops fighting each other), but boy is that a perk point hog. And do I still need alteration? Paralyze?

Sorry for the mumble jumble. I hope it is understandable and if it isn't, don't be afraid to ask for clarification,

Am I just kind of stuck?

How are you complaining about how easily you can be killed, yet you play on expert? Play on Adept and you'll still have a challenge somewhat and you can make use of skills you would enjoy most.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:19 am

Personally I view a spellsword as focusing on all out offense, so light armor and a 1h weapon, with destruction for long range. I picture a battlemage as heavy armor with a focus on casting for offense and buffs.

I currently play a spellsword type character, I focused my perks in destruction, restoration, light armor, 1h, smithing, and enchanting. I also put a few perks into sneak and speech. I also had trouble with the 1h weapon and a destruction spell appproach. I am level 43 and I play on expert and I have found using dual wielding swords for close range and dual wielding destruction spells for long range pretty effective. I also recommend using the staff of jyrrik gauldurson and the staff of magnus together against dragons. These two complement each other nicely and neutralize dragons breath pretty well. You will need to have a good bit of soul gems on hand for the gauldurson staff however. I wait til the dragon lands on a rooftop or hovers in one spot to use their breath attack and then I hit them with both staves. Once you do this about 3 or 4 times they should be weak and they will land. Then you can run in and finish them off with your dual wielding melee.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:57 pm

I didn't think Battlemages used weapons?
I thought that was Spellswords?
Battlemages are just spellcasters in armour, aren't they?

A Battlemage is to Destruction, what a Conjurer is to Conjuration.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:34 am

One-Handed (we could go dual handed or maybe sub with 2 handed so I could block?), Light Armor (would prefer because glass looks cool and steed stone feels like cheating with heavy armor), Enchanting, Destruction???, and of course Respite in Restoration

I feel like I could just go Conjuration but just summoning a dumby doesn't feel very epic like throwing fireballs across the field. It would also be nice to incorporate illusion (imagine how devastating it would be to have your own troops fighting each other), but boy is that a perk point hog. And do I still need alteration? Paralyze?

Sorry for the mumble jumble. I hope it is understandable and if it isn't, don't be afraid to ask for clarification,

Am I just kind of stuck?

Right now I'm playing a stealth/illusion build, but when I find I am taking dirt naps frequently Illusion is a lifesaver. Calm if I get into melee with one guy. Fear if I get into melee with two (send one running and fight/calm the second one), Frenzy (at a distance) if I come up to a fort with Bandits/Thalmor/Mages and let them dwindle the ranks. I really haven't used perks for reduction costs other than novice & apprentice, but did pick up the animage/kindred mage perks and the middle branch for calm/fear affecting higher level enemies. Not much more than that right now. So you could do this and use the rest of your perks for 1H or Light Armor and Destruction if you still want to throw fireballs at your enemies until they get close. Then use 1H and Illusion.

I also enjoyed my sword and board build (love bashing and staggering people) so using a shield + spell build might be a fun mix. Get into melee? Bash/stagger, cast calm or fear, launch some destruction on them. Could try dual wielding spells for Impact perk stagger and switch to shield when they get close.

just some thoughts. nice how you can take different approaches to the game. I haven't really used Alteration but it seems that some really use it a lot.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:05 pm

A Battlemage is to Destruction, what a Conjurer is to Conjuration.

That would have been my second guess. Doesn't involve swords or axes in any case.

That said, given the current limitations of the Destruction school, I'd just say "Elementalist" ... or use a more specific term if one only used one element.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:26 pm

A Battlemage is to Destruction, what a Conjurer is to Conjuration.

I don't think that is a fair assessment. A mage is also to Destruction, to what Conjurer is to Conjuration. A sorcerer is to Destruction ... A wizard is to destruction... ect.

Actually what you two are thinking of, heavy armor and just destruction is rather called a sorcerer in the TES series.

A Battlemage is a Warrior-Mage. Along with Spellsword, Paladin, Knights, Crusader, battlemage, Cleric,ect

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:06 am

The name Battlemage seems pretty obvious that its a Destruction mage. Destruction is the most battle focused school of magic, being all about offensive spells.

Just look at all the great Battlemages in TES history. Jagar Tharn, Ocato, Zurin Arctus etc. All were highly skilled in Destruction magic and not really known for using weapons. Destruction is the primary skill of a Battlemage. Read the Oblivion in-game book " Response to Bero's Speech" http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Response_to_Bero%27s_Speech

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:19 am

I played as a Dark Elf Spellsword and I had a good time until about level 15. Then I made a new build. If I ever go the Spellsword route again I'm going to use conjuration, alteration and restoration.

^THIS!

Destruction is almost worthless for the spellsword. Destruction is ONLY good if you dual-cast with impact (and then only when geared up for it with as much destro cost reduc as you can squeeze in there along with +Magicka and +Magicka Regen).

As a spellsword, use cloth or light armor (light is better, but cloth can be fun.) and those 3 schools. Summons are always useful distractions and damage mitigation. Conjured weapons are quite useful. Alteration isn't necessarry if you go light armor, but it's fun, and more importantly, Paralyze is probably 1 of the most useful offhand spells. Not to mention the magic resistance.

Resto is your main offhand spell... with Regen and Respite you can pop Close Wounds to heal up 150 HP & Stam for a paltry 50MP or less. This lets you ENDLESSLY spam power attacks.

You COULD use a 2hander instead of 1hand + spell (Heal/Paralyze usually) which lets you block and increases melee DPS, but then you have to put it away everytime you need to heal, re-armor, resummon, etc.

Easier to just keep weapon in 1 hand and single cast your spells. Quick map healing as 1 spell, maybe a summon as a second... also, your favorites list remembers last selection, so you can quick equip a 3rd spell leaving it on the same one all the time (Flesh spell for me).

Archery > Destruction for range. Destro would be nice if you could effectively 1 hand it, but you can't.... since you need to 2-hand either one sword & spell is out of the question. Archery will not only allow you higher damage potential, but you can regen magicka while shooting arrows... but if you go destro you'll be burning your magicka instead! Also, the bound bow is simply amazing in power when you get to it. PS: equip the bound bow spell to left hand when you cast it.

Spellswords ARE good.... once you realize that Destruction should be ignored

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:27 am

I don't think that is a fair assessment. A mage is also to Destruction, to what Conjurer is to Conjuration. A sorcerer is to Destruction ... A wizard is to destruction... ect.

Actually what you two are thinking of, heavy armor and just destruction is rather called a sorcerer in the TES series.

A Battlemage is a Warrior-Mage. Along with Spellsword, Paladin, Knights, Crusader, battlemage, Cleric,ect

Battlemage is heavy armor + destruction (and of course other schools of magic, but Destro focus and primary)

Pure mage = cloth and all schools

Conjurer = Conjuration focus, but a lot like a pure mage

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:43 am

Unfortunately bashing away with bound or enchanted weapons seems better than Destruction, esp. if you have a follower who likes to get into melee...

Otherwise, the Eye of Melka, Molog Mal's Mace, and the Sanguine Rose are pretty handy.... And Glass Armor !

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:23 pm

I tried to create an Imperial battlemage but it didn't really work out as I intended. I found at early levels, if I wore all those destruction enhancing things I couldn't wear my armor and if I wore my armor, I couldn't enchant decent copies of the fortify destruction enchantments onto the armor (because my enchantment wasn't high enough). So I'd lightning bolt my enemies, but putting perks into warrior too, I couldn't get enough magica and magica regen to really function as a decent mage. I found myself relying more and more on the warrior side. I kept getting killed by dragons trying to kill them with magic, but if I used lightning to ping them till they landed, I could usually kill them with my two handed weapons.

I've been watching Culveyhouse's walkthrough on YouTube and he is more a straight mage. He takes every opportunity to enhance his magica, taking magica on his levels 90% of the time or more, wearing magica enhancing robes, spending the lion's share of his perks on Destruction mostly and he seems to be making a go of it. He wears blades armor that he enchanted and he uses a Dwemer warhammer as a backup, but he's mostly a mage. So far he's doing ok but he seems to really NEED to CONCENTRATE on the mage side.

Since I went the opposite way and concentrated on the Warrior side, between my armor and my enchantments I'm pretty much invincible to most enemies (or maybe all of them) but I still can't really fight with magic. I use light all the time and transmute and clairvoyance sometimes and fire and frost to solve puzzles, but mostly I'm a warrior. I'm going to be a more regular warrior next time, probably a Nord.

I'm just not sure you can be a destruction battlemage and spend enough on the warrior side given how much you seem to need to spend on the mage side.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:03 am

@Preie - I'm playing a somewhat similar build (Crusader based on the old Morrowind class - One-handed, Heavy Armor, Block, Destruction, Restoration, some Smithing and some Alchemy). Basically I just blast away with my Destruction spells (one-handed, no dual cast impact) until I deplete my magicka reserve and then roll over to my mace and shield when I get up close. Granted, I'm only playing on Adept so Destruction doesn't feel as underpowered as you'd likely experience on Expert. I like the One-handed style simply so I can keep my Shield in my left hand and swap out my Mace and spells as needed.

Light armor will do just fine once you get it to a higher level, but it'll be painful for the first while. You're probably best off to continually enchant your gear with +Health and +Light Armor for the first while just to keep yourself alive. You'll need to keep a healthy bit of magicka in reserve for healing spells if you're going to get up close and aren't including a shield in your build. At distance, light 'em up with your destruction spells, but keep back part of your pool to heal yourself (unless you've got health potions falling out of your pockets). Up close, I'd suggest getting your hands on a staff or two and using that for elemental damage in your left hand while you continue to use your right hand for your one-handed weapons. Alteration will be a big help with the shield spells (granted they function best without armor, but the boost will be helpful to your light AR) and paralyze at a higher level.

All in all, I'd suggest going towards the Spellsword build (One-handed, Block, Light Armor, Alteration, Destruction, Restoration, Enchanting and a bit of Alchemy). Blast away with your Destruction and Staves as you close, then cast a shield spell and flip over to sword and shield while your magicka regens, healing as needed.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:45 pm

Spellsword Npcs in the game are skilled in One Handed, Destruction, Restoration and Heavy Armor. That was pretty much the build for the preset Spellsword class in Oblivion too. There are no Battlemage npcs in Skyrim, but i would say one would concentrate on One handed, Destruction, Heavy Armor and Conjuration. Of course you can play any character you want, but in the Elder Scroll universe it seems thats what a spellsword is meant to be skilled in.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:09 pm

Battlemage is heavy armor + destruction (and of course other schools of magic, but Destro focus and primary)

Actually its just Destruction and a few other schools. Not all Battlemages wear armor.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:07 pm

Actually its just Destruction and a few other schools. Not all Battlemages wear armor.

A "Battlemage" without armor that uses Destruction would be a Destromage, combat mage, war mage, or just a mage. "Battlemage" implies the character is in the thick of battle and can kill you with either spells or weapons. A spellsword is someone who relies on both spells and weapons simultaneously and in a complimentary fashion.

Destromage: Drop a ward, blast from far away, when enemies get close, run away and blast again.

Battlemage #1: Drop a ward, blast from far away, quickly depleting magic, when enemies approach, draw your giant 2H sword and finish them off.

Battlemage #2: Summon an atronach near your enemies, charge in with a weapon drawn/conjured, kill an enemy and raise his body to help finish off his friends.

Spellsword #1: Use telekinesis to launch a dagger lying on a table at a nearby enemy, harden your skin as enemies approach. Paralyze the first enemy to reach you as you finish off its friends, turning to dispatch the first enemey just as the spell wears off.

Spellsword #2: Send a group of enemies into a frenzy, conjure your trusty blade and run into the confusion, dispatching of your enemies as they struggle to decide who is the real threat.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:47 pm

Well, I got a couple of things I have noticed and might suggest for you to do what it sounds like you want in your original post.

One, as mentioned you can definitely use a shield and hot key it to switch to after you are done spell casting. As far as perks you can get by fine with just two, the first shieldwall, which gives 20%, but stop there as the next ones just give 5 percent. Then just get quick reflexes as it is very helpful. I don't bother with the bashes as they don't seem to work as stated in the description. Also, if you are pretty confident in your timing you can even skip the Fast Reflexes perk and just do quick bashes when you see the power attack coming and it will still interrupt it, but I find it useful when you happen to have two opponents on you.

As for the magic skills, I would consider Illusion as I am using it now with my Fighter/Illusionist/Thief. But I would only focus on one magic skill unless you use destruction. of course it can be good to get the big three Restoration perks, novice, regeneration and respite, but I find those aren't even absolutely necessary if you just want to save the perks and just maybe get Novice. I think you could do Alteration but I wouldn't bother unless you get Lord birthsign and/or play a Breton. I would only do either/or on Alt/Ill not both. There is a good post above about destruction, and you can definitely dual cast some lighting bolts then switch to sword and board when you run low on magicka, then fight while your magicka regens, then use it to heal strafe/heal if anything is still standing. Personally I would not even try using Illusion or Alteration if you are using destruction/blade/board which is totally viable alone.