Hello folks,

I would like to establish that although this is a build help thread, it does have a little twist.

So here is my issue. I have attempted many times to try to build a Battlemage/spellsword and by level 20, the damage output is horrid and due to balancing Life / Magicka, I can be gobbled up by Blood Dragons in one hit. Not to mention random Bandit goons. Level of play is Expert, for some difficult challenges. So I need some help rounding out my build and due to my constant fear of how weak Destruction is, I wonder if I should sub it out. I could just go pure mage but I have explanation of why not further down

Now for the twist I promised. I would love to play an Altmer (and hopefully make a decent looking one too. Not looking like he has jaundice and horrid green eyes) battle leader/ strategist that aims to help the Empire against the fight with Thalmor. I find it fitting for an Altmer rather than a Breton for the battlemage due to the amount to time it would take to be skilled both in magic and combat (Plus it adds extra drama in RP'ing). I would like him/her to be heir to a throne if I can squeeze it in between the lore. Father was a tyrant. I would like this character to be powerful on the battle field, and cause fear among foes.

Anyways, generally and what is somewhat disheartening in the Elderscrolls series, is that almost all leaders are Warriors or Knights. So that means I pure mage is out of the question. So I will have to mix warrior and magic. And I cannot go just pure warrior because I always feel.... DER I IZ WAzzar when I play a warrior 8(.

So back to normal build talk:

One-Handed (we could go dual handed or maybe sub with 2 handed so I could block?), Light Armor (would prefer because glass looks cool and steed stone feels like cheating with heavy armor), Enchanting, Destruction???, and of course Respite in Restoration

I feel like I could just go Conjuration but just summoning a dumby doesn't feel very epic like throwing fireballs across the field. It would also be nice to incorporate illusion (imagine how devastating it would be to have your own troops fighting each other), but boy is that a perk point hog. And do I still need alteration? Paralyze?

Sorry for the mumble jumble. I hope it is understandable and if it isn't, don't be afraid to ask for clarification,

Am I just kind of stuck?

Yeah some people have this problem with builds like this as destruction is overall weaker than the rest. Perhaps dual casting fire balls then switching to dual wielding 1H when they get close works. Maybe light armour as well for extra speed/dodge. 1H sword and and destruction spell really isn't very good compared to other builds. So yeah I say go dual destruction for range and dual 1H for melee.

As for spending points I'd say put most points into health rather than distribute them evenly and pick up standing stones like the Atronach or Apprentice stones to further help with magic.

1H/dual wield is also powerful enough without enchants so leave that for increase magic and magic regen.

Ive got a battlemage that uses heavy armour, one handed and Illusion/Alteration in battle. I find it works really well as the Illusion and alteration spells work wonders from afar while my sword does good damage when in close quarters. I didnt like Destruction because its generally weaker than other schools and I didnt want magic that could primarily do damage over a distance. My strategy is to use magic to incapacitate and hide my battlemage from the enemy untill they are close enough to truly damage them, whilst also causing mayhem by using spells like Frenzy and so on to tip the battle in my favour. I'm currently debating on whether I should become a Werewolf for extra firepower should I need it but I'm still undecided.

Anyway that build works pretty well though it can be pretty challenging sometimes, I definatly recomend it.

Just lower your difficulty. Expert isnt realistic anyways. If you shoot a guy in the head with an arrow he should drop right away and it shouldn't take ten arrows to kill a rat. If you want a challenge play dead is dead, no reloads and no fast travel. That should at least make you be more cautious as you wander around.

Thanks for the ideas.

I do want to avoid the sneaking tho. I just played an assassin and an archer. I kind of want an "in-your-face" character, just with magic

I already tried to do a battlemage D is D but like I said, on the higher difficulties, I was usually seeing the death animation after the second hit.

Question on illusion, does Frenzy only work while hidden?

And Darkfire, I have tried to play a swordspell with restro and alteration... how do you get your dragons to come down to play ha.

Alright.... Destruction tips...

Firstly... make sure that whatever gear you're using (robes / armour / whatever) has at least 100% destruction casting cost reduction. You want to be able to shoot spells off for free. This is vital.
There are three spells you need concern yourself with when fighting Dragons, depending on the type of dragon you're fighting.

#1. Against Frost-type dragons, use Fireballs. They're not top-tier ranged attacks, but the AoE makes spamming them much easier.
#2. Against Fire-type dragons, use Ice Spear. This isn't AoE, but is fairly easy to target and pretty fast. Most importantly, Ice Spear can slow down dragons if you hit them enough with it, even in mid-flight... which makes it MUCH easier to hit them with more while they can't fight back.
#3. The third is Thunderbolt. It casts instantaneously, and if you've got all the Dual-Casting perks (you should), then dual-casting it against a dragon continuously will keep the beast stun-locked. That means that once the dragon lands and moves to attack you... spamming Thunderbolt at it can stop it doing ANYTHING until it is dead. The range is pretty good too (but not as good as Ice Spear, if memory serves). You can keep the dragon stun-locked with fireballs or ice spears too, but not as easily.


For non-dragon enemies, unless you have to be wary of hitting allies.... I recommend using the Fireball spell for most things. Regular use of destruction spells will give you a feel for when you can manage something different though. There are a few properties of other spells that are never explicitly mentioned though:
Ice Spear again... one of my favourite spells, and the best for sniping. Requires more accuracy than fireball, and a bit pointless against frost-resistant enemies... BUT as mentioned, it does slow enemies down... and more importantly, much like arrows, the Ice Spears will stay in the body for a while after hitting... and they glow. That means whether alive or dead, you can tag enemies with the ice spears rather effectively.... making them far easier to spot.
Rune spells... Very useful if used right (and if you have the perks for them, though they're rather optional). It is often an idea if enemies haven't noticed you yet (especially if you have silent casting), to put a dual-cast rune a short distance in front of you as a defensive barrier in case you have to run away. Also, putting a rune at the foot of a sealed sarcophagus with a Draugr inside (triggered to break out under special conditions) will trigger the spell and damage the nasty bugger... causing it to break out early (this lets you prevent multi-aggro by taking them out one at a time if necessary).



Now... since you're a battlemage, I imagine you're probably wearing Heavy Armour.
I'm not a big fan of Heavy since I'm the sort who prefers to evade damage rather than trust in the armour, and heavy DOES slow down your movements... But still, in case you're not doing this I'll throw it out there: Master Circle-Strafing... and learn when to suddenly change direction. Enemy attacks are usually fairly predictable, though not to the extent they were in previous Elder Scrolls games. And don't forget to use the dual-cast stun effect defensively, as it is very useful in that regard.

Oh yeah... and if you decide to use swords or whatever.... remember that having a high Destruction skill makes Destruction-based elemental damage enchants more efficient. Always useful to know.

Use conjuration and Bound Bow instead of Destruction

You get good ranged damage thematic to your character.

Go 1 hand + heal as your std equip

Left hand also casts flesh spells, conjurations, illusion if you so please. Skip destro

You can pick up the 3 dual-wielding perks if you want an additional option and higher DPS at a bit more vulnerability. Not too hard to swap between offhand sword and heal.... not as easy as it should be... but oh well. Favorites list works.

Alternatively you could go bound axe (starting off with just a plain 2hand sword or something)

Bound Sword being the lowest level is great early on, but falls behind later.

Bound bow on the other hand is almost as good as 1 of the best quest reward bows (if improved) and it doesn't take charges and comes with free arrows

I imagine bound axe might hold up a lil better than the sword in usefulness (higher tier spell)... but I don't actually know.

Conjuration, Destruction, Alteration, light Illusion (or heavy if you want), and Light Armor specs are the way to go. Most everything else like enchanted items or armors etc can be found in the game at whichever path-point you choose, and the added bonuses in Light Armor and Alteration can provide added defense.
If I were to do anything as a Battle Mage, it would be to get the Magicka and Health up as much as you can, and spec into your Mage Celestial trees obviously... but it would be doing this to do one main thing.... do the Mage/Winterhold main quest line to get the rewards at the end. With two items that are 100% Magicka regen... you are more apt to utilize any spell casting you want as a left hand equip and sword if you like... or straight spell-caster. Even using one of the items, and then equipping Light Armor to make it more of a true Battle Mage... will be a good remedy to utilize the bonuses in Light Armor specs, and get the Magicka regen, as well as overall armor rating increases. After this quest line, I would do either the Nightengale or Dark Brotherhood quest lines (may not want to be an Assassin though, if so then go Nightengale as it does provide excellent light armor). Of course you can get some awesome Elvish armor out there for example if you like the look more.

Doing this, you will not have to even worry about speccing into Smithing or Enchanting.... and can simply level it naturally by disenchanting or enchanting items, utilizing it as more of a money making tool. Plus, it make for the true balanced game, without becoming God-like using them.

Just what I have done so far in both a Thief/Assassin character and Strict Mage character (all robes and spells)... and can see how combining the two would make for a great Battle Mage. Both of these characters have their moments of being completely slaughtered.... but then also moments of annihilation of an enemy. Makes for the more Tactics, skilled, preparation and balanced play though... more challenging, more exciting and more rewarding in my opinion.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like I am going to be stuck with Smithing to make sure my damage output isn't pitiful and I have a decent armor value. svcks tho, since every toon I have made, I incorporated smithing....

@ Preie

I found that untill you get the Dragonrend shout then your best option is to either use shouts like Fus Roh Dah when they fly low or to wait untill they land. You could always give yourself a Destruction spell that you could use to draw Dragons down, though I find them annoying to use against flying dragons since they fly about and dont tend to stay still often.

A Battlemage and a Spellsword are two different classes. The question is, do you want to play a Destruction mage (Battlemage) or a melee/magic hybrid (Spellsword)?

Jango. I believe that the class differential is on armor beliefs, agility with a weapon, and whether they use magic to augment melee prowess or melee is to augment magic prowess. Which one is which is up for argument.

So swordspell, augment his melee capabilities, and throws a few spells around. Agile. Problem is in Skyrim, one handed sword and destruction is not very viable.

And Battlemage, flings destructive spells at range and charges in to finish enemies is I guess how I see it. I perfer a balanced approach to both as I hate blunt weapons, perfer to be more agile (why I would like light armor)

i wear the arch-mage robes and use ebony flesh with the mage armor perks in alteration, use bound sword and get the perk 'Mystic Binding' until you get daedric quality weapons, as for destruction use frost spells to be defensive and offensive and shock spell to be quick and offensive. Also level up enchanting to 100 and get all the perks in the middle of the skill tree, if you reached to 100 find fortify destruction, fortify one hand (only on the the boots non armor) and fortify restoration or alteration then enchant it to a circlet, necklace, and ring. and i thinks that's it... oh and level up one handed and don't wear armor because mages armor wont work if you do.

PS. when you reach to daedric quality enchant your sword to absorb health, soul trap or absorb magicka

I would seriously suggest that you consider the block skill and a shield. Boosted up with the anti-fire/frost/shock perk, and any anti-magic enchants you throw into the mix, a spell caster character with solid shield skills is a very viable and strong build. Aside from anything else, the shield does make a viable weapon when the skill level is up, and there are several shields or types of shields that are large enough to provide good coverage against bows.

With the stagger effect of shield bashing, it buys you time that you need for your destruction magic casting, and provides you the ability to swap and change from shield to ward as you require.

I haven't faced many opponents with blade and spell, but I'm seeing more with shield and spell.

Gungho, which difficulty are you facing?

I see that one-handed spells doesn't do much for a damage output.

And plus with block, I am really stretching my perks out again. I am trying to condense them to not be weak at 20 again

I'm on master, but I'm well up in my levels.

And I agree that one handed destruction casting is somewhat weak, but that's where the block skill and shield comes in. Regardless of anything else, once you get down to melee combat it's likely that any character will take hits, and if you are armed with a sword that won't change unless you are blocking...and if you are blocking, you might as well use a shield which maximises that skill and ability, and provides several benefits along the way: 1. Bashing which causes stagger, which means that you have time to either cast spells onto them or avoid, or even to bash them backwards; 2. Magic resistance through enchantments/perks; 3. Anti-arrow protection; 4. Some level of damage ability (granted, it's not comparable to blades, but it is there).

I understand your situation, this game isn't friendly to spreading your skill base out, and in the case of spell casters you already have a wide range of skills to try to level up.

Well my Spellsword, still working her way up goes something like this:

Race: Breton
Sign : Lord

Conjuration (9 perks) - Novice Conjuration, Mystic Binding, Soul Stealer, Oblivion Binding, Summoner I-II, Atromancy, Elemental Potency, Twin Souls
Destruction (12 perks) - Novice Destruction, Destuction Dual Casting, Impact, Augnented Flames I-II, Intense Flames, Augmented Frost I-II, Deep Freeze, Augmented Shock I-II, Disintegrate
Restoration (7 perks) - Novice Restoration, Recovery I-II, Avoid Death, Respite, Regeneration, Necromage
Alteration (12 perks) - Novice Alteration, Apprentice Alteration, Mage Armour I-III, Magic Resistance I-III, Adept Alteration, Stability, Expert Alteration, Atronach
Enchanting (8 perks) - Enchanter I-V, Insightful Enchanter, Corpus Enchanter, Extra Effect
One Handed (7 perks) - Armsman I-V, Fighting Stance, Savage Strike

Thats 55 perks which is enough forward planning IMO
I realise its more conjuration than you were looking at but you aren't a warrior, you need some way to deal with mobs (and it isn't going to be primarily destruction spells unless you use mods) so that means conjuration or illusion. For a spellsword I'd go conjuration, more because it seems more fitting than anything else. Also this character concentrated on atronachs rather than undead, just fits my idea of a spellsword better

Spamming Ice Spear in the path of flying dragons usually results in at least some of the shots hitting them, and eventually slowing them down... which makes it easier to hit them with yet more. Ice Spear is a VERY handy spell against dragons. Really.

Besides... why even mention Dragonrend? Hitting them with it is nigh on impossible unless they're slowed down. Isn't worth the effort, frankly.


True.
Dual-Casting is the way to use Destruction. No point otherwise.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a doubt about battlemages that is not worthy of a personal thread.

What is more pratical for a battlemage, two handed or one handed weapons? Considering that I'm on ps3 and only can favorite two "whatevers".

An orc battlemage/necromancer holding a mace of molag bal do seems to be the sixynator.

I played as a Dark Elf Spellsword and I had a good time until about level 15. Then I made a new build. If I ever go the Spellsword route again I'm going to use conjuration, alteration and restoration.

AT Coffin Joe... I find that although swinging a 2-handed weapon, it is more of patience and viability. I am pretty sure on my other plethora of attempts at a similar build, I almost always had to do one hand sword with restoration in the other and keep chugging to get both stamina and keep from dying. In addition. You will be going through more menus to switch spells. Up to you. At least you can block with 2 hander

The cloak spells really help a battlemage or a spellword out. I use a shield and place a spell in my right hand for a battlemage which gives me damage potential in all ranges, the general response of melee is to rush then the cloak spell hurts them while I block, heal, or throw a fireball in their face. For casters I rush with my cloak up, usually lighning.
For a spellsword I will use a one or two hand weapon with a cloak spell for close in melee and a bow for range.

My first character was a battlemage. A breton with the Lord sign.

Focused on Conjuration mostly. Specialized in heavy armor and two handed weapons. Just used Bound Battle Axe and summoned allies, made things a breeze most of the time. Don't forget to invest in the various armor increasing spells like Ironskin and such. Destruction is kinda useless if you're using bound weapons, so don't pay much mind to it if you go the conjuration route. Kept my attributes equal so I wasn't a full on warrior or mage and had a decent amount of health and magicka by level 50. Enchanting seemed to be more useful than smithing for an auxiliary skill, especially with Ironskin making up for armor rating.

This is my interpretation of a Battlemage, and I'm playing one now: http://skyrimcalculator.com/#79359

Wearing heavy armor, wielding a 2h bound battleaxe, capable of bashing (block tree), relying on summoned minions. I'm at an extremely low level on Expert right now clearing out camps like it's nothing. This is my third character and so far my favorite. I tried the 1h sword / 1h destro spell and I just didn't like it.

I didn't think Battlemages used weapons?
I thought that was Spellswords?
Battlemages are just spellcasters in armour, aren't they?