Niranye is a girl. Guess she was forced to say that seeing as how the Hllalu farm has a Nord WORKING for a Dunmer and nobody complains about it, the Altmer merchant in the White Phial is a tad snarky to even Nord PC's so surely the racist Nords would hate him for being snooty to Nords even though nobody complains about it, and the racist Nords direct you to Sadri's store, a store owned by a DUNMER! Surely they are racists
/sarcasm

Dude, it's sort of a big thing no one disputes that the Dunmer are ghettoized and forced to live in hovels in-game.

No one is arguing all Nords are frothing racists who do nothing but hate outsiders - in fact, that was the point of my post.

actually i will dispute the reason why the dunmer live in the ghetto.....was basically thier won fault or natures fault. they came over when morrowind pretty much got ate by a volcano. Alot of dunmer refugees came to skyrim with no place to go and the king of skyrim at the time extended a hand to give a home to the dunmer. the dumner that have came to windhelm were mostly poor "hence why they got stuck in the ghetto" and also when skyrim extended a welcome to the dunmer as a place to live the dunmer were expecting a handout to get started or such...sorry skyrim does not give handouts they work for thier worth, whereas alot of dunmer got butthurt that when they came to skyrim that werent houses built for them or jobs lined up waiting for them so they embraced the impoverty as a jab at the nords to "beat a dead horse" situation.

if u notice........the dunmer that actually contribute to the siuation or society basically are treated just liek everyoen else...no better no worse. Nords arent racist EXCEPT about high elves, really they distrust and hate EVERYONE until that person shows and proves thier worth. Also as far as the Nords getting "special' priveledges or actually soemthign done about their problems...well look at the military and look at the other races response to the stormcloaks acsking for their help...sry aint my probelm, dotn wanna help ya whereas the army is mostly made up of NORDS so they are helping the ones that are doign somethign for them.

edit---i forgot that they are "racists' against the khajits, but not because they are cat people or anything liek that its because the race/country as a whole reveres the thalmor.

Argonians too, even Brunwulf Free Winters says that they can't be let into Windhelm or the people would kill them.

(In the Imperial Ending)

Also, the whole, "Revere the Thalmor" thing strikes me as alittle odd what with them being conquered by them and all.

Niranye didnt come off as a bootshiner to me. More of a realist. And if an altmer can make it in windhelm then anyone can.

The Dominion claimed responsible for bringing the two moons back after 2 full years. The Khajiit happily aligned themselves with their "savior"

I'm not disagreeing with this, I'm simply saying that the EVIDENCE does not support it. It's still possible, but I find it sort of annoying that people make the argument that, "Some people commit genocide, therefore Ulfric definitely did!" When I read books like that I like to look at the evidence before coming to a conclusion. Based on Ulfric's character and from what I've seen, at least several of the claims in the book are overexaggerated. That does not mean that he didn't commit genocide or wasn't cruel. But if several claims in the book are wrong, all of them must be suspect. And there is really no outside evidence to support the claims of the book. The only evidence you have is one guy whose family was killed by the Jarl of Markarth, not by Ulfric. That's it. Again, wishful thinking does not make fact.

There are many reasons to hate Ulfric or think that he is a bastard, so I don't see why people are so insistent on making up more.

Mostly, it's a thread to discuss what sort of behavior Ulfric would have displayed to the Forsworn.

My guess is that it is likely that Ulfric marched on the city and killed all combattants, then forced all non-Nords to leave the city. At that point, they probably headed for the hills and joined the camps there.

he pretty much was hired with a job to take back the city, and he did it. Im pretty sure everythign wasnt all rosey from my own encounters with the forsworn BUT again if he did commit atrocitys in taking back the city then we cannot deny that the same atrocitys were done by the forsworn when they took over the city. Again it seems the book is trying to highlight a certain event to demean a certain charector all the while to cover up the fact that the empire yet again failed on thier word and yet again betrayed/sacrifised a grp of people it promised to protect to save its won skin from getting into another war with the thalmor.

as i remember it the area under forsworn rule was peacefull for the time that they were in power.

then all hell broke loose when the nords came on the scene.

it is the same tale for most if not all indigenous people.

not only do they lose everything but they're the bad guys!!!

There are still Reachmen who live in Markarth. The conflict has been going on for 20 years, so there's been a gradual build up of tension.

yeah, second class status has a way of making people really upset for some reason.

If you're looking for an innocent group in Tamriel, you'll be looking for a long time.

Tiber Septim is the one who originally conquered the Reach. The Forsworn took advantage of the Great War to try to take the city back, but they got beaten and are carrying on a terror campaign. It's not just the Nords who are responsible for the remaining Reachmen feeling heat.

notice the chain of events.

got conquered.

took city back.

got routed again.

it is human nature to want what is yours. even if you have to fight for it.

and there are no blameless sides in a war.

Not necessarily. From what I've heard Markath was poorly defended with only a small garrison at best, so it's perfectly possible that gathered a force of Reachmen, told the local authority that the Reach and Markath was theirs once again and that they wouldn't get into trouble if they behaved. It would make sense to spare the local guards since they wanted to be recognized as an independent kingdom, something which is a lot easier if you come across as reasonable. And it would make sense for the guards to let themselves be spared since getting into a battle with little to no prospect of winning is only an enticing thought for a select few.

But then for Ulfric this might have looked like a big betrayal. He's out there fighting the Dominion to protect his homeland while the Reachmen rebel and take some of what he's trying to protect for themself, all while he gets to see his brothers-in-arms suffer and die. The betrayal coupled with the fact that the Thalmor had been playing around with his mind and that this was the best option around to get to worship Talos might have led him to act quite quickly and harshly. Not guaranteed to be close to the truth at all but to me it sounds plausible at least.

There is as much bias in accusing an academic scholar of slander because of their race as the amount one can insert because of bias.
Academia has little value to those who oppose them.

I'm sure someone in favor of the stormcloaks can come up with any number of reasons to dismiss the account in its entirety for any number of reasons regardless of the author. And visa versa.

In fact; enough to even deny first person accounts; i,e Braig is lying.

That is the nature of racism. Its no different to the mentality to those such as holocaust deniers. Anything to maintain one's personal values.
So its best to start from a standpoint without bias ~ assumption of dishonesty.

Did you adjust your hipster glasses after you wrote this?

All the books in the game are written from a perspective. It bodes one well to keep in mind who is writing, their motive, and that they have very limited information.

Also, your characterization of Stormcloak supporters as holocaust deniers is pretty offensive. How about someone say that if you're sympathetic with the Forsworn, you support terrorism and gruesome ritual murder? Right. Just as helpful.

That doesn't square at all with Igmund's own description of what happened. He's no fan of Ulfric, so he has no reason to make him look good.

And yet it has never crossed your mind that names do not automatically identify race?
Someone may have an imperial name, and still could be of any race. But you're already made up your mind

Did I characterize stormcloak supporters as holocaust deniers? Or maybe I said that those whom come into a discussion with preconceived assumptions are in similar mentality holocaust deniers (and the only words you read were "holocaust deniers" and got offended)? After all, if you can simply say everyone who has an opposing opinion than you to have a hidden agenda, you can't possibly be wrong.

And anyone who just tosses around "you're sympathetic with the Forsworn, you support terrorism and gruesome ritual murder?" obviously isn't trying to have a discussion; throwing ad hominems at people and all that.

I don't remember what he said himself actually, I assume the dialouge is in-game so I'll have a chat with him the next time I play. And to some extent he has. Despite him possibly using Ulfric as a tool to be thrown away after it has served its purpose he may still end up being affected by Ulfric's reputation if it's too bad. But I'll get back on this when I've had a chat or two in Markath.

How fitting that the remnants of the Blades settled into this hold, isn't it?

Case in point: Brand-Shei. A dunmer with an argonian name.

So? What standpoint is without bias?
Assumption of Dishonesty? Assuming that everyone is lying?
That the imperial scholar is a propaganda?

You are saying that anyone that denies that Ulfric is a dangerous murderous psychopath is a holocaust denier. There is even no need to say that you simply talked about the "mentality", as a simple understanding of English will reveal the true intention.

As you said: anything to maintain your personal values, even if it's to attack the arguers, not the argument itself

I think the view that it's propaganda comes not only from the writing style of the author of the book, but the fact that every other book about them notes that they perform human sacrifices, murder everyone that isn't forsworn, and surrender their mental faculties to hagravens.

Given that we've seen examples of each of those actually in game. I think the other books are a bit less biased.