I did have issues with FO3 crashing / freezing when it would launch, but it turns out it was because in Windows 7, you have to manually enable the MS .Net framework in the control panel which it needs.

Settings>Interface>Uncheck "Notify me(With Steam instant messages) about additions or changes to my games, new releases, and upcoming releases."

Hmmm, the OP kinda reminds me of this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
o.o

Zenimax shareholders disagree.

Zenimax own Bethesda.

Kheldor does not own Bethesda.

Therefore Kheldor loses.

Sorry.



With steam installed I can play Oblivion just fine. Ditto Freespace 2. Medieval 2 TW plays fine too, but I bought that on steam, so I'd be rather surprised if I had to uninstall steam to play it.

CC cleaner works fine too.

Frankly, I can't imagine why steam would interfere with these programs at all, and I've not experienced that ever, and this is the first I've heard of it.



Settings -> interface -> uncheck "notify me about additions or changes to my games, updates, or new releases." That should do it.

@FalloutFTW & @Cpl. Facehugger
Interesting now it works. I found these one already and had disabled it. Yesterday after rebooting my PC (normaly I use sleep mode) I had a ad about a Haloween sale. Now as I checked (ending and restarting steam) no ad. Thanks anyway!

If the constant change of my mouse buttons settings is cured in the near future I don't complain anymore. Because I don't plan to use any community features.

Somewhat OT, but I often wonder how many Steam haters have a 360 with a paid Xbox Live Gold membership...you know, paying for features that are free on PC games?

I call bull on you, complete and utter bull. Please return with evidence.

It's rather anecdotal, but my experience supports what he's been saying. I remember when I was a kid, there were four shelves at my local EB (you'd call it gamestop now, I believe) devoted to new PC games, and two shelves devoted to used ones. Consoles had about twice that spread over the N64 and PSX, with some lesser consoles (Sega Saturn I think?) about too.

I go there now and there's half a shelf for new ones and half a shelf for used ones. Everything else in the store is a console game.

Steam, meanwhile, lets indie games like Braid get released when otherwise they wouldn't have been, for want of a publisher.

I like Steam.

GFWL was awkward to use, and would (on my PC anyway) take forever to load, meaning once the title screen popped up, I'd have to wait a minute or so before I was allowed to load the save file that was sitting right there in My Documents. Steam loads instantaneously, meaning I can play right away.

Not to mention it's completely unobtrusive, and makes patching a breeze (well, more of a breeze than usual).

I'll admit the pricing is annoying at times (so, I guess the packaging is free now?), but it's no biggie, since I prefer having physical copies of my game anyway.

I do hope Microsoft fixed GFWL, god do I ever!

I ended up buying POINT LOOKOUT for the Xbox360 from within my PC install of FALLOUT3. Yeah. That was . . . annoying.

How did I do that? By following the exact same incomprehensibly labeled _Xbox Live!_ path I had previously used for BROKEN STEEL and THE PITT, both of which had downloaded and installed on my PC without a hitch. And why did I do that? Because accessing GFWL from either inside FO3 or from the handy Windows menu shortcut took me there - without any link for a page not labeled Xbox Live!

Microsoft: needlessly complicating simple tasks since 1983!

Valve = the good guys. Look at the crazy deals they give on holidays, how can anyone not like STEAM?

What is wrong with you people? It might just be because I used Steam long before FONV, but I find it extremely easy and convenient and I am not being payed to say any of this. I guess I could see preferring not having to use it, but it's 100x better than GFWL.

Company of Heroes and Crysis have the same Games for Windows "branding" on them. Neither use GFWL at all.
Just because the box says it's Games for Windows, doesn't mean that it needs or uses GFWL. It's really just a way of saying "PC game". No, I've no idea why some have it and some don't.

The only thing that indicates if it uses/requires GFWL, is if there's the addition of the word LIVE on the box cover.



It says "Requires internet connection and free steam account to activate".

my problem with Steamworks (the forced application of the Steam digi-distro system) is that it needlessly widens the gap between the "Have's" & the "Have not's'

those with a fast connection are able to seemingly without effort able to dl & install a large game. though the experience of a narrowband user (we do exist) is not so pleasant .

I know that Steam recommends a broadband connection (with good reason) and there should have been an effective option for those of us that can't afford or have the time to use up hundreds - gigs of data to be to have a working copy from a disc & be able to have it current.

I know many have said "Steam will be the future" Sure only if & when everyone is able to use it effortlessly, but like electric Vehicles the infrastructure simply isn't there yet for alot of places.

So what good is it to use a system that punishes some of the paying loyal fan base especially if it's not an "anti-piracy" measure?

I don't want to be rude or disrespectful, and I certainly don't want to start an argument, but my concern is with morality itself, not with the teleological foundations upon which it rests. Before I say anything else, let me remind VALVE Steamworks that an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere. Keep that in mind the next time you catch VALVE Steamworks making us the helpless puppets of our demographic labels. Perhaps VALVE Steamworks has never had to take a stand and fight for something as critical as our right to change the world for the better. But if the only way to transcend local prejudices is for me to get torn apart by wild dogs, then so be it. It would honestly be worth it because if VALVE Steamworks wants to retain an institution which, twist and turn as you like, is and remains a disgrace to humanity, let it wear the opprobrium of that decision.

Following this line of logic, it would appear that VALVE Steamworks is out to use psychological tools to trick us into doing whatever it requires of us. And when we play its game, we become accomplices. VALVE Steamworks is frightened that we might provide a trenchant anolysis of its précis. That's why it's trying so hard to prevent whistleblowers from reporting that it yields to the mammalian desire to assert individuality by attracting attention. Unfortunately, for VALVE Steamworks, "attracting attention" usually implies "goading effete devotees of conspiracy theories into hurling epithets at its adversaries". Squalid, patronizing sociopaths who condone illegal activities might not recognize the incongruities in VALVE Steamworks's bromides, but the spectrum of views between antiheroism and gangsterism is not a line but a circle at which hypocritical backstabbers and destructive, brazen flag burners meet. To properly place VALVE Steamworks somewhere in that spectrum one needs to realize that I take seriously the view that in the genesis of VALVE Steamworks's intimations, goofy begat huffy, which begat appalling, which begat feebleminded. And let me tell you, some of us have an opportunity to come in contact with stuck-up, lethargic fence-sitters on a regular basis at work or in school. We, therefore, may be able to gain some insight into the way they think, into their values; we may be able to understand why they want to create a Frankenstein's monster.

When you reflect upon this, you'll realize that it's indubitably a tragedy that VALVE Steamworks's goal in life is apparently to step on other people's toes. Here, I use the word "tragedy" as the philosopher Whitehead used it. Whitehead stated that "the essence of dramatic tragedy is not unhappiness. It resides in the solemnity of the remorseless working of things," which I interpret as saying that if VALVE Steamworks can't be reasoned out of its prejudices, it must be laughed out of them. If VALVE Steamworks can't be argued out of its selfishness, it must be shamed out of it. VALVE Steamworks says that character development is not a matter of "strength through adversity" but rather, "entitlement through victimization". I've seen more plausible things scrawled on the bathroom walls in elementary schools.

Although I can find only circumstantial evidence of misconduct and rule violations, I want to take advantage of a rare opportunity to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. But first, let me pose an abstract question. What meaningless self-inflicted psychological trauma is VALVE Steamworks going through now? Perhaps the answer is best saved for another letter. Let me simply note that with VALVE Steamworks so forcefully exploiting public sympathy in order to bolster support for its covinous epithets, things are starting to come to a head. That's why we must uplift individuals and communities on a global scale to build a coalition of stouthearted people devoted to stopping it.

VALVE Steamworks has a knack for convincing cocky libertines that its expostulations are Right with a capital R. That's called marketing. The underlying trick is to use sesquipedalian terms like "counterexcommunication" and "mechanicocorpuscular" to keep its sales pitch from sounding pernicious. That's why you really have to look hard to see that VALVE Steamworks's reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, it always begins an argument with its conclusion (e.g., that everyone who scrambles aboard the VALVE Steamworks bandwagon is guaranteed a smooth ride) and therefore—not surprisingly—it always arrives at that very conclusion.

Many people who follow VALVE Steamworks's tracts have come to the erroneous conclusion that VALVE Steamworks does the things it does "for the children". The truth of the matter is that its litanies appeal to people who are fearful about the world's political and economic situation and long for simple solutions to complex problems. So let it call me grumpy. I call it primitive.

The real question here is not, "Has anyone ever seen VALVE Steamworks working instead of plundering, stealing, and living off the sweat of others?". The real question is rather, "Will the world ever be free of twisted party animals like VALVE Steamworks?" The answer is too well-known to bear repeating, but I should comment that if it were true, as VALVE Steamworks claims, that big emotions come from big words, then I wouldn't be saying that VALVE Steamworks's ability to capitalize on the economic chaos, racial tensions, and social discontent of the current historical moment can be explained in large part by the following. Everybody is probably familiar with the cliche that VALVE Steamworks makes it sound like it's some perfect angel of unstained ethical standards. Well, there's a lot of truth in that cliche.

VALVE Steamworks's perceptions deserve to be criticized because they give the most temperamental mercantalism enthusiasts you'll ever see far more credibility than they deserve. I want to live my life as I see fit. I can't do that while VALVE Steamworks still has the ability to wage an odd sort of warfare upon a largely unprepared and unrecognizing public. What really irks me is that VALVE Steamworks has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let it plant the seeds of scapegoatism into the tabulae rasae of children's minds or it'll crush national and spiritual values out of existence and substitute the chauvinistic and despicable machinery of larrikinism. VALVE Steamworks accuses me of being dangerous whenever I state that it habitually reads negative meanings into innocuous remarks. All right, I'll admit that I have a sharp tongue and sometimes write with a bit of a poison pen, but the fact remains that this is not the first time I've wanted to foster mutual understanding. But it is the first time I realized that it has worn out its welcome. Why do I tell you this? Because these days, no one else has the guts to.

Make no mistake about it; griping about VALVE Steamworks will not make it stop trying to render unspeakable and unthinkable whole categories of beliefs about power. But even if it did, it would just find some other way to create massive civil unrest. A bunch of ghastly popinjays have recently been accused of insulting the intelligence, interests, and life plans of whole groups of people. VALVE Steamworks's fingerprints are all over that operation. Even if it turns out that it is not ultimately responsible for instigating it, the sheer amount of its involvement demands answers. For instance, do irritable muttonheads like VALVE Steamworks's fans actually have lives, or do they exist solely to capitalize on our needs and vulnerabilities? It would take days to give the complete answer to that question but the gist of it is that VALVE Steamworks insists that untoward loan sharks are inherently good, sensitive, creative, and inoffensive. This fraud, this lie, is just one among the thousands they perpetrates.

VALVE Steamworks is addicted to the feeling of power, to the idea of controlling people. Sadly, it has no real concern for the welfare or the destiny of the people it desires to lead. VALVE Steamworks is firmly convinced that Dadaism can quell the hatred and disorder in our society. Its belief is controverted, however, by the weight of the evidence indicating that VALVE Steamworks shouldn't flush all my hopes and dreams down the toilet. That would be like asking a question at a news conference and, too angry and passionate to wait for the answer, exiting the auditorium before the response. Both of those actions fortify a social correctness that restricts experience and defines success with narrow boundaries. My eventual goal for this letter is to get VALVE Steamworks off our backs. I'm counting on you for your support.

Boxed versions of PC games aren't going to be around much longer, more and more people are buying PC games online, its just something you are going to have to deal with.

besides Steam is awesome.

Unless the prices drop I won't use it to buy anything. Retail = cheaper around here.

You will change your tune when retail games disappear and you have to buy them online, also Steam is cheaper, especially when they have those awesome sales.

.. the 21st century? Bloatware has been around since the late 80's.
The real future of gaming is online, period.

... and as general comment on the topic:
A lot of kids like Steam... then again a lot of people like Windows... I guess they like being controlled by software in their own computer.

I don't mind electronic transactions at all, but I don't like bloatware taking control over my computer:

I put Steamworks in "offline" mode.. and I am constantly reminded by it it is in "offline" mode. Now I get 2 splash screens before the game ( WHEEE! )and another one when I restart the computer (I do all my stuff in Solaris, reboot the computer into Windows just to play games). Of course, I am also reminded every time to join the "Steam online community" every time I launch the game. If I put you offline, it is because I want you offline.

Another good one, trying to work around the save game issue ( a problem introduced by the use of bloatware), I make the pertinent Steam directory read only... to reboot my computer and again find the directory read-write. FAN-tastic!


Here is a concept, Bethesda and Steam, in the computer engineering world.. you may have heard about it before: transparency. Look it up.

But there is some truth to the above post... the younger generation does not mind bad products and being told what's good for them by software companies...they just accept them, and marketers are aware of this.

I'd rather not have Steam required to run my game. That's nothing against the company, just my not wanting to run some application to run a game. It reminds me of the menu apps that used to come with the old DOS computers, which also weren't necessary if you knew your way around a command line.

All steam is to me, is a 5 min+ delay before a retail DVD game will install and a 10 sec+ delay before the game will launch. I could easily live without both. Not to mention the 100MB+ of RAM it eats upon launch.

If they would just let legit users opt-out, everything would be just dandy.


That is the exact same day I stop playing games all together.

This so called cheaper argument is horrible cynical for steam customers who bought NV in Australia. Look it up in the forum what happened as suddenly the prices have gone up.

If I look at the 'pro' postings here I always hear the same phrases (mostly in the same wording). Just like a marketing campaign.

indeed, the community wouldn't be so divided as it is now


that would be the day I quit buying new games.



Not to mention the "cheaper sales" are a slap in the face to those of us that it would take weeks or longer to able to fully dl the games.

Let's see....DRM rootkit vs steam. I pick Steam any time especially over the last game which used GFWL, how I hated that.

One of the gentlemen above mentioned hating steam starting up with the computer etc etc. I have mine set up to only run, in offline mode, when starting FONV. I also do not get game ads since I changed the settings for that as well.

As for "bloatware". Steam minimized to tray using 11mb of memory, 0 cpu time. Maximized using 14mb memory, 0 cpu time. I would hardly call that bloatware. Unless you have less than 1 GB of memory, this is a pittance.

Now, as for slow connections, business models are built on the average. The average gamer tends to have high speed broadband, that is who they cater to. It's simply a fact of life and good business practice. Do you complain when a new game comes out that your system can't run? Probably, but they will not dumb down a game so people with ancient hardware can run it will they?

Except Steam doesn't set the price of the games, the publishers do.