Bethesda must be pulling out their hair by the handfulls....

The serious complained to Bethesda that chameleon wasn't 'fair' in Oblivion, that persons had virtual god mode and this detracted from the game. But look at the consequences of not having Chameleon; that ability made it possible for non 'serious' gamers, casual gamers to play through quest lines they might not otherwise bother doing. No, it wasn't the same achievement as a person who did the Dark Brotherhood by pure sneak alone. Look what happens without Chameleon though- there are already complaints 'sneak' is too powerful in Skyrim. Has sneak been expanded in scope and depth so that less dedicated gamers can still complete quest lines, or have the quest lines been simplified, or both? If Chameleon is gone, there still must be a means for casual gamers to enjoy an Elder Scrolls game; after all, Bethesda sells games for a living. With Chameleon gone, Bethesda was basically tasked to find other means to acheive the same result- and Skyrim may be suffering because of it.

Look at acrobatics- same thing. People complained it was 'ridiculous' that it made 'immersion' difficult because it defied belief. But it also may have made the game more fast paced, with the player having the ability to quickly take up the next challenge or dungeon, or to more quickly complete tasks given by the game. There are persons complaining of boredom with Skyrim. Shocking, I know. The absence of hi speed and hi jumping, on the Xbox and PS3 anyway, may be dragging it down. I know I didn't expect to explore Skyrim at Fallout speeds.

Are unintended consequences occuring in Skyrim because of Oblivion complaints? What will the next Elder Scrolls game look like if Bethesda keeps going down this road?

I loved earlier Elder scrolls games because the company gave the player what they wanted- whatever that was. They were not 'stingy' with abilities, weapons, etc.

In the future the solution between the hardcoe and more casual player may be the ability to set game perimeters before the start of the game. You could pick features in the game you wanted to play, like Fallout New Vegas has in hardcoe vs regular.

I don't want Bethesda to continue leaving things out of these games. In truth, the hardcoe may not like the end product either.
(And it's always possible both acrobatics and chameleon are missing because of other reasons entirely).

This is all pretty much common sense. You should know the forum is full of DIFFERENT opinions and that's what happens.

A lot of the ideas on here that support depth is good. I hope they do add more content to the game now that there is a massive fan base.

i was under the impression that the "hardcoe" types are the ones most dissatisfied with skyrim as opposed to the "casuals". i consider myself hardcoe and i download any mod that says "makes the game more challenging" somewhere in the readme, but overall i like skyrim alot. definitely needs some fixing though thankfully not nearly as much as oblivion.

If Bethesda listened to all of us we would have the most horrible game ever created by mankind

Am so completely satisfied and happy with Skyrim i still cant believe am actually playing an rpg this perfect. Its so great i have yet to play a single other game since november 11 2011. Everything from the combat mechanics, the graphics and the spot on mood enhancing music just grabs me in a mega hug of embracing acceptance. Truly life is great.

Faster than a speeding bullet....
More powerful than a locomotive...
And able to leap tall buildings in a single bound...

A Khajit Warrior!1

if they listened to us we would indeed have a crap game. full of robots, zombie mode, multiplayer with kill streaks etc etc.

I will pass on the last three too.

They don't need to listen to all of us, just the folks that cared enough to post out detailed thoughts on the "Future of TES series" prior to Skyrim, of course alot of it seems to have not gotten much after thought. the "desires" from what I've read aren't utterly unattainable, the most common I've seen can be catagorized into three archtypes.

• Significant Depth
  
• More Detail
  
• More Options

I wouldn't want Bethesda just to listen to the people who posted on the future of TES, though I'm glad you believe there is hope and I like your concise three item list.

I was rarely bored by Oblivion, though have been by Fallout. Sometimes I think Skyrim is Fallout with magic and swords.

As a parrent i would say its impossible to listen to all of us.. Why? Cause its impossible to listen to 4 kids talking over eachother.. Imagine hundreds of people on a forum? We are talking, all.. the... time

So yes they would probably go out of their minds..

I wish Bethesda did it right from the beginning so they didn't have to listen to all us "complainers"

What happened to taking pride in your work? Oh yea, cash monies [censored]es! This is all Bethesda cares about, otherwise the [censored]ton of hate/complaint threads wouldn't be here!
Skyrim will surely sit on the no no pile of games till DLC is released (ahh LA Noire, why did you end up there?)

You said it for me too. When I see someone say that Bethesda should add more content, I think I must have stepped into Bizarro World. The game is so huge I'll never see it all....and it's awesome. Happy New Year!

perfect.

How could they find a nice thread about how to make the game better?
It's not about ideas. They have ideas, they have more than 100 people working there. Lots of heads.
But it's how to make this idea to work?

Some users here have solutions for given problems. Good solutions with few consequences.
But it's hard to find them.


Like, how would we make my acrobatics to work WITHOUT having the player jumping around like an idiot and possibly breaking the immersion?
It's not about being casual here. It's about making the game better.
Making the game work.


But there are hard questions being asked.
How would YOU do it?

Jumping does not increase your level at all!
Just a reward for players that walk around and explore without fast travel.

That's how I'd do it.

If everyone got what they wanted, the game would never be released.

OP is basically saying: "You complained the house was too cold, so I set it on fire, now you say I shouldn't have done that. MAKE UP YOUR MIND."

Chameleon was badly designed. People complained about that. So Bethesda removed chameleon and made sneak badly designed. People are complaining about those things too. THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION HERE. Bad choices are bad choices. The smart thing to do would be to leave chameleon in and make it balanced.

If Bethesda listened to everybody the game would be bloated confused garbage.

having it in gave us the choice to use it.

People used it and complained, if someone chooses to make something powerful they complain they lack self control so they complain.

When you play a well-designed game, you do not need to use "self-control" to keep the game-balance from shattering into a million pieces. When I play chess or starcraft or Terrerria or Dead Space I can use the full extent of my mind to try to OVERCOME the obstacles the game puts before me instead of stepping delicately to keep from knocking over the cardboard excuses for obstacles Bethesda puts in.

The reason I pay $60 for a GAME instead of a free roleplay MUCK is because I want the developers to put forth challenges and boundaries for me, and when these boundaries turn out to be pathetic, I complain.

Well its impossible to make it "Right from the beginning". Cause we all think differently on what "is right".
Perhaps if they made 12 million custom made mini games?

No matter how hard a company try, they will still make a fail game if you ask 10-15% of the playerbase.. Am more impressed that they actually still doing it.. And doing it good.. Well done Bethesda..

if bethesda listened to this forum they would have created the absolute worst ES game
almost none of these people on this forum have any experience making video games, so the game that would be created would have unrealistic expectations and that wouldnt be made for 12 years and even if it was finished it would be a 12 year old game or a game with completely broken gameplay mechanics

See, this is why the Construction Kits are just so awesome. If there's something you don't like about the game, chances are, some modder feels the same way and changes it for you. Sure, sometimes you get some pretty... odd mods like the Miku Skyrim model I keep seeing pop up, but you don't have to get the mods you don't want. In this way, I think, Bethesda has an edge over every single other game company. Like in Mass Effect 2, lots of people complained about lots of stuff. Well, there's nothing you can do about it in Mass Effect 2 because that's just how it is. But with TES, there are unlimited options.

And that's why, ultimately, Beth doesn't have to listen to all of us. Because we can take things into our own hands. And that is awesome.

Bethesda is not known for well designed games: in terms of "balance". If you never wanted any of the spells in past games its simple do not use them but it gave us the choice to play and be whoever we wanted to be. That is where Skyrim is lacking we do not have choice and diversity compared to what we once have. Skyrim is nothing like Starcraft or like Dead Space those are bad comparisons, if thats what you like fine, I like them too but I would never compare them to any Elder Scrolls title. Those games are about strategy and the other story and survival TES should be about freedom of choice with several styles of play and several ways to experience the game. Skyrim is lacking the diversity of choice that Oblivion and Morrowind gave us.

I got this game for freedom of choice not boundaries, this is the wrong game series for you if you want to be lead around with a linear goal.

That is a complete fallacy. If the game had genuine challenges and balanced gameplay it could be just as open-ended and free as it is now. It would be better in many respects and worse in none.

But you're forgetting about console users.

I know that buying a Bethesda game for console is like not enjoying 50% of the game.

And it's not because the mod is actually part of the gameplay.

But it's because the mod will make the game works properly.
(Faster loading times, more FPS, better UI, and they'll make the game a little bit more hardcoe)

He's not talking about goal boundaries.
He's talking about making goals harder to reach.

You never take an option like "Chameleon" because it makes you overpowered.
You make it in a way that it doesn't make you overpowered until you mastered it.
But it makes sense to master sneak too. So people can't hear your footsteps.

So you level 2 skills to 100. Only to make your character slightly better.