Bethesda, please put this in the next PC patch

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 2:54 am

Considering recent history... oh lets say the last 15 -25 years have bread people that are better than the papered people.... we are in a day and age when in fact, more and more papered people are untrustworthy or crooks themselves and typically don't know anything more then joe blow aside from making it appear that they do.

Now i'm not saying gamesas is like that.. but considering that i personally wasn't/somewhat aren't in numerous things, i know more and have fixed more and built/repaired/etc more than what these "professionals" with pieces of paper saying they may know something ...

A piece of paper is totally useless and does nothing but prove nothing aside from having spent either a waud of cash or typically wasted a few years at some university or college.

The biggest and best world changing inventions have come from people that more often than not, have no credentials to speak of. Actually ironically, many of them never even went to school let alone made it through high school even.

Personally i know several people that don't have a piece of paper saying they are a professional at (name occupation here) that are not only to do better quality work, typically faster, under budget (sometimes if it's a realistic option) and is vocal about making suggestions or insisting on something when the "professionals" are willing to screw you over.

This applies to every industry, job, position, whatever.

Without knowing the full details of why something like this.... first being the lack of LAA even though there is clearly issues without it for many, and now the clear indication that no significant if not ZERO optimisations were performed in the creation of the game.

Like i had mentioned in a previous post..... in todays society.... if a lets say ford/dodge/chev or some of the less purchased and widespread manufacturers like Ferrari /porche/mercedes/bmw and so forth had produced a vehicle.. launched it and some guy happened to get curious and do some tinkering only to find out after only a day or so worth of work, that he could increase the efficiency of the car.. producing more horse power and mileage by anywhere from 10% to 40% with a simple tweak, and then also knowing that with better tools and proper access could potentially increase it by 100% in some cases.... you have any IDEA how many people would be yelling and screaming about why in the hell this wasn't in the car in the first place?
Great post. Completely agree.
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Elizabeth Lysons
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 1:48 pm

I find it hard to spend $100+ dollars on a game and be so hard on the developers for a few glitches. You obviously thought the designers had enough going for them to make it worth your while to buy. And name me one game ever made, even by professional programmers, that needed absolutely no patches or fixes. Many games don't even try to patch (you buy it, you live with it stuff) or promote modding. Bethesda does both. As for not getting every detail done, consider that the guys at Bethesda were working on Skyrim right up until the very last minute to put the most into the game for your money. And they are still putting up with our complaints and suggestions to make the next thing they do for us that much better.
When Bethesda gets out a final patch, I for one am sure it will address these trivial concerns and If modders are willing to make corrections for us in the mean time, we should be grateful they are also adding their time and talents for our enjoyment as well.

There is no reason to express such animosity toward the creators when requesting them to address your issues. After all, they didn't put a gun to your head and force you to spend money on their product. Their ads were not misleading in any way, and their immediate availability and invitation to comments and concerns shows their willingness to go the extra distance to correct what problems we may experience.

Have patience and faith, and enjoy what you have now. The improvements will be forthcoming.
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Chris Duncan
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:33 pm

Depending on how they coded the game maybe turning on compiler optimizations was not a trivial process across all platforms.
Their are drawbacks for optimizations and if you have hardware limitations (...ps3) or just different hardware their can be issues.

Some articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler_optimization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_expansion

As far as them being awful coders, I dont think its a case of that. For the pc it was probably oversight but their may have been technical issues at some point.
A game this size on multiple platforms would have never made it out the door if they were as incompetent as many people make them out to be.
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e.Double
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 12:25 am

They missed a check box on the IDE, or a single setting in their Bamboo cluster or Ant farm. It'll get fixed.
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tiffany Royal
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 12:21 pm

They missed a check box on the IDE, or a single setting in their Bamboo cluster or Ant farm. It'll get fixed.

exactly, not the end of the world
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:31 pm

I would like to point out that there is no reason for consoles to have anything to do with this. The PC, 360 and PS3 versions already have to be compiled seperately. Activating compiler optimization flags would only affect the way in which it was compiled for the PC. It would have no effect on the console versions at all.
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Kevan Olson
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:00 pm

Yyyyaaa actually your right. They would all have to be separate builds. I guess like the other guy said someone forgot to enable them lol.
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Je suis
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 3:25 am

I don't want this thing in my computer; I trust that the Bethesda developers will fix the problems by themselves.

Lol you make it sound like a viral creature infesting your PC; it is just a plugin for skse, that actually works might I add ;)

Historically, work done by the fans and modders are always a huge boon for any gaming community. Unfortunately it seems there is less and less ability for modders to do much with today's games and resources are used for other things such as voice acting and other features that limit what the community can do.

Exhibit A: http://nwvault.ign.com/static.php?page=Hall_OF_Fame

I think there are lots of people, including myself, that would be glad to do free voice acting.
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sunny lovett
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:51 pm

I still have trouble wrapping my head around why folks keep asking for Beth to include things mod'ers have already fixed. First the LAA patch now this? Why do I need Beth to go back and fix it, its already fixed. :tongue: Should Beth have "fixed" it prior to release so it would never have been needed to be fixed in the first place? Well, yeah, obviously. What's done is done though, mod'ers have fixed it, lets move on. I'd prefer Beth to spend time fixing things mod'ers can't fix, like getting the CK released and for the love of God, give us an option to turn off the completely craptacular looking self shadows, or even fix some quest bugs so there's a handful less of the hundreds to fix with the Unofficial Patch that will surely be made, assuming they ever manage to get the CK released. Lets move forward, not rehashing what someone else has already fixed and patting themselves on the back for it.
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Kellymarie Heppell
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 12:57 pm

I still have trouble wrapping my head around why folks keep asking for Beth to include things mod'ers have already fixed. First the LAA patch now this? Why do I need Beth to go back and fix it, its already fixed. :tongue: Should Beth have "fixed" it prior to release so it would never have been needed to be fixed in the first place? Well, yeah, obviously. What's done is done though, mod'ers have fixed it, lets move on. I'd prefer Beth to spend time fixing things mod'ers can't fix, like getting the CK released and for the love of God, give us an option to turn off the completely craptacular looking self shadows, or even fix some quest bugs so there's a handful less of the hundreds to fix with the Unofficial Patch that will surely be made, assuming they ever manage to get the CK released. Lets move forward, not rehashing what someone else has already fixed and patting themselves on the back for it.

Apparently in this case though there's a lot more that could be done - since Arisu doesn't have access to the games source code, there are a lot of things he can't conveniently change, but Beth could.
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Jerry Jr. Ortiz
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm

Also I just like to have a more clean setup. There is probably more chance of things going wrong with other mods or plugins because they don't test it with a new addition like this, but every modder obviously tests against the basic game files. I am probably overthinking this, but it just feels better.
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Mark Hepworth
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Apparently in this case though there's a lot more that could be done - since Arisu doesn't have access to the games source code, there are a lot of things he can't conveniently change, but Beth could.
Correct -- Arisu theorizes that if Bethesda double-checked themselves and added the standard optimization flags back in, there would at least be a 100% CPU performance increase in a wider variety of cases (instead of around 40%). Note that "CPU Performance Increase" doesn't always translate into "increased framerate" -- that's only if your CPU was the bottleneck to begin with.

Also, inlining of getter/setters could be done on Xbox360 too, if it wasn't already.
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 4:38 am

Correct -- Arisu theorizes that if Bethesda double-checked themselves and added the standard optimization flags back in, there would at least be a 100% CPU performance increase in a wider variety of cases (instead of around 40%). Note that "CPU Performance Increase" doesn't always translate into "increased framerate" -- that's only if your CPU was the bottleneck to begin with.

Also, inlining of getter/setters could be done on Xbox360 too, if it wasn't already.

I am really banking on that since every time I overclock my CPU higher my FPS goes up across the board, except indoors (always 60+).
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claire ley
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 6:55 pm

Apparently in this case though there's a lot more that could be done - since Arisu doesn't have access to the games source code, there are a lot of things he can't conveniently change, but Beth could.

Does anyone here really think they would though? Seriously? If they had taken the PC version seriously to being with, this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with, we'd probably have a 64 bit exe and DX11 support to boot too. If they do anything they'll just copy what they can from Arisu and call it done. Personally I'd rather they actually tried to fix something mod'ers haven't already fixed.
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Franko AlVarado
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 3:16 am

Does anyone here really think they would though? Seriously? If they had taken the PC version seriously to being with, this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with, we'd probably have a 64 bit exe and DX11 support to boot too. If they do anything they'll just copy what they can from Arisu and call it done. Personally I'd rather they actually tried to fix something mod'ers haven't already fixed.
What Arisu did is way more complicated than simply activating compiler optimizations (which would be significantly more effective). It's literally a few clicks.
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JR Cash
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 2:19 am

Note that "CPU Performance Increase" doesn't always translate into "increased framerate" -- that's only if your CPU was the bottleneck to begin with.
That is good to know. Easily misconcepted.
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x_JeNnY_x
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 6:43 pm

edit: disregard
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 1:09 am

From http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322063-rel-tesv-acceleration-layer-thread-no-2/ we're already getting reports of people having issues when starting a new game with delayed scripts and unresponsive AI, where removing the plugin fixes it. Not sure if the plugin is exactly to blame yet or if it's exacerbating an existing issue, but since the plugin was made in just one day; I think it's at least an equal chance of either.
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 3:31 am

From http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322063-rel-tesv-acceleration-layer-thread-no-2/ we're already getting reports of people having issues when starting a new game with delayed scripts and unresponsive AI, where removing the plugin fixes it. Not sure if the plugin is exactly to blame yet or if it's exacerbating an existing issue, but since the plugin was made in just one day; I think it's at least an equal chance of either.

I had this issue without the plugin, fixed by patch 1.3.
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 2:12 am

Lol you make it sound like a viral creature infesting your PC; it is just a plugin for skse, that actually works might I add :wink:
As far as I remember this SKSE consists in replacing the original TESV.exe by another one that someone I know nothing about has made. So, yeah, I don't want this in my computer. Whatever it does, I probably don't need it because my game works fine. ;)
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Tiffany Holmes
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:47 pm

As far as I remember this SKSE consists in replacing the original TESV.exe by another one that someone I know nothing about has made. So, yeah, I don't want this in my computer. Whatever it does, I probably don't need it because my game works fine. :wink:

One of the worst posts I've ever read. On such a basic level that it's astounding.

I'm going to go to bed, now.
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MISS KEEP UR
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:45 pm

One of the worst posts I've ever read. On such a basic level that it's astounding.

I'm going to go to bed, now.
Yeah go to bed; maybe it'll teach you to respect others who don't think like you, genius.
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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 2:33 am

All people criticising Bethesda did it wrong but know absolutely nothing about game design, programming or coding should stop. They have no idea what they're talking about.

It definetely seems an oversight or fault on Bethesda's side but it could have anything to do with preventing crashes to making sure some bugs don't occur to anything we don't have a clue about. The fact that since using that mod I've encountered two new crashes leads me to belive there might be a causal relation.

But lets leave it to Bethesda and the experienced coders/programmers that actual mod the game to work this out and don't start throwing insults about stuff you literally know nothing about.
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Ownie Zuliana
 
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Post » Mon May 28, 2012 1:09 am

If there was a reason Beth couldn't do this then why don't they tell us? It seems they don't really care much for the PC players. This probably isn't true. But they give us no information about how the game was made yet they know we are all interested in these things.
It would be nice to here from the devlopment team as to why the game wasn't very optimised and if they left this mod out for a reason.

e.g they could of told us right from the begining about the "ugrids" they could of said something like.

"You can have greater Drwa distance by setting the Ugrid value to 7 or 9 from the default "5" but you may experience some CTD issue's as your save file gets bigger as your character rises through the ranks"

Something like this would of saved me a headache.

Communicate with us Beth on your Forums Beth.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:47 pm

Using SSE is a direct option, but inlining getters is not.

You can't force the compiler to use inlining. In Visual Studio, for a release build I think the default is: let the compiler decide. There is a forceinline directive, but even that does not force the compiler to inline the method, it will generate a warning though if the compiler doesn't inline the method.

(Inlining the getters will certainly help on all platforms, that is... if the Xbox/PS3 compilers did not do a better job in the first place)
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Karl harris
 
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