Even it if was full blown knowledge, Ulfric isnt the first one to cause a civil war, there have been many others. Granted this time theres an acual good reason for the this civil war since the empire hasnt been doing a very good job in protecting or serving it citizens, whereas past civil wars were just to get the position of high king to which then to get the spot of emporer.

Look at the thread tags.

I'm not a "tag" user. *shrug* Not my sort of thing at all. [Though, now, having looked at them, I honestly am no further along: one is Ulfric, and the other ref's something called "Jerkface Magilicutty". Now if that's pointing at this being a thread AGAINST Ulfric, I don't see how. Probably some IRL reference I don't get? Regardless, I very plainly did NOT pay a whole lot of attention to begin with. Though I appear to have posted "properly" the first time. Some nights are better than others for me?]

We can definetly agree that it was all the doing of the Nords. Thalmor, although all the haters would love to see them blamed for it, are just oppotunist at best. Who knows? If the events lead to conquering of Skyrim, Thalmors will probably take credit for it.

Didn't you hear? The Thalmor somehow battled their way into Sovngarde, killed Shor again, and then killed Alduin without the help of any silly Nord screaming magic. Just like they restored the two moons and used elven magic to pull an avatar of Akatosh out of their moonstone skirts. They also installed Ulfric as High King, charmed him into naming Elenwen his successor, and then assassinated him using the Dark Brotherhood that their agents secretly restored.

I'm pretty sure that in TES VI, those silly elves will have deluded themselves into believing all of this.

In a way, yes, you could say that Ulfric caused Alduin's return and you would be right.
You can also say that the Dragonborn mage with the Elder Scroll caused the Dragon's Return, and be right.
You could blame the very existence of the Elder Scrolls and be right.
You can blame Akatosh for creating Alduin and be right.
Hell, you can blame that random mudcrab you Fos Ro Dah'd for nipping you in the bum, and you would still be right.

THE RETURN OF ALDUIN WAS GOING TO HAPPEN! Everything that happens in TES games is part of some master universal plan, and everyone has their part to play, so pointing fingers at specifics is pointless.

...although i must admit that mudcrab is pretty suspicious...

The return of Alduin was entirely due to his trajectory when he left the timeline. The fact that the civil war was coincident was just coincidence.

That's pretty succinct - and just about what I think on the whole thing.

I'm not an American, so perhaps someone can shed a light to what "Jerkface Mcgilicutty" means? I know MacGyver, or McGuilty, but I never heard of Gilicutty

EDIT: Googled, found McGilicutty as a WWE RAW wrestler from Wikipedia, seems to be a hard-working all-around nice guy?

I'm a statesider.... I have NO clue what it means, refers to etc. - until, like you, I googled it. It STILL doesn't cause any major lightbulb moment for me.... *shrug*

I was thinking McGilicutty was as Lucy's maiden name.

Hmmm. You may be right. Haven't thought about that in probably 40 years.... Looked it up - was spelled McGillicuddy

I think the OP was just putting "Jerkface" together with what he felt was a comedic sounding last name.

Haha! It's funny to see a bunch of over anolytical nerds trying to google something. Don't take offense either; we're all nerds here.

I simply thought it was a funny name.

I also don't think Ulfric would have the capabilities of engineering something like the end of the world, but I thought it would make for good conversation. And I do think he's a jerk that almost caused the end of the world because of his selfish ideals.

He got sent forward in time by the three ancient Nord heros using an elder scroll. I don't think it has anything to do with the Thalmor or the civil war.

I guess during their time, they were weak dragonborns.

I've been spying on the mudcrabs, and they are very suspicious! I'm almost positive that the mudcrabs are behind Alduin's return. Why else would they insistently nip Dragonborn in the bums?!?
I'm going on a purge, anyone care to join me?

Hey! Some of us are geeks.

OMW...with drawn butter.

Ulfric did'nt cause Alduins return.

It's a prophecy. Prophecies describe what will happen when a even occurs. Like, beware a red eye, for someone attacked near a red eyed cyclops mecha.

Alduin was sent forward in time, because it was meant to be, he appeared just as the Dovahkin was going to be killed, in a time were some moron was trying to take over skyrim.
Whatever happened Alduin was coming through that rip in time. The Elder Scroll would change for it.
There could have been alternatives were Ulfric was executed and the civil war never began. Ones were dragons were everywere, living in peace with everyone.
But Alduin was going to be there, whatever happened.

Hmmm... I need to play the MQ again. I somehow missed/forgot that the Nord heroes sent Alduin forward in time with the Elder Scroll. Which makes sense because the Dragon Born went back in time with the Elder Scroll.

I should change the thread title to "Can we all agree Ulfric is a moron?"

No. No we can't.

That wouldn't work either, since many of us don't think he is one.

If anything, the ones who are morons are the two jerks at the gate when you first enter Windhelm. The fact that they're 1) drunk and 2) justifiably annoyed at the fact that the Dunmer aren't doing a thing to help while there's a war going on seems to get conveniently ignored, and their behavior used to unjustly tar Ulfric. Who, by the way, is in the middle of prosecuting said war, and as a result is rather occupied at the moment.

The only moron is the person that didn't execute Ulfric first in Helgen. Ulfric isn't stupid. He's manipulating his followers with the Talos issue. He probably knows that the Empire had to ban Talos worship and agree to the White-Gold Concordat in order to stop from losing the war completely. He's just using it to rally a group of people to help him gain power.

I've heard that Ulfric laments how his caused help Alduin if you see him in Sovngarde. Do this by completing the Empire-side of the war before that point. So no, he didn't do it on purpose, unless I misunderstood what people said Ulfric said, as I've never heard it myself.

+1
also people like to overlook that when they cry about the dunmers not getting thier houses fixed that .....Ulfric's in the middle of the war and the dunmer dont pay taxes. theres literally nothing the dunmer are bringing to the table as far as finainces/gold to windhelm's coffers.

If there wasnt those 2 drunks at the gate when u first enter....i dare to say that 90% of the people wouldnt hate the stormcloaks as they do, which technically those 2 are retired stormcloaks there not even active or still part of the grp.

+1
also people like to overlook that when they cry about the dunmers not getting thier houses fixed that .....Ulfric's in the middle of the war and the dunmer dont pay taxes. theres literally nothing the dunmer are bringing to the table as far as finainces/gold to windhelm's coffers.

If there wasnt those 2 drunks at the gate when u first enter....i dare to say that 90% of the people wouldnt hate the stormcloaks as they do, which technically those 2 are retired stormcloaks there not even active or still part of the grp.

It's not that they don't pay taxes - there's no way they could operate shops (or farms) without paying taxes. It's that they generally don't support the Stormcloaks in a military capacity - it's the same beef Galmar Stonefist has with Jarl Balgruuf. Some elves, both high (Niranye) and dark (Belyn Hlaalu,) actually thrive in Windhelm.