I can't decide which I dislike more. The Falmer or The Forsworn.

I've encountered rather despicable acts from both that have been set up.

I've pretty much given up on any hope of not attacking these on sight due to what I've learned throughout my travels in Skyrim. So I put it up to you. Which do you dislike more? The Falmer, The Forsworn, or is there another group that just gains your "full and undivided attention until they lay motionless heaps on the ground in front of you"?

They're pretty even to me the only difference is i think it's digusting that Forsworns keep hagravens around and murder just to justify that their homeland was taken from them so i say forsworn and Falmer is little more than beasts now anyway.

I feel pity for the Falmer, a once great race reduced to living underground and blindness. I try and let them be :/

Kill 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u-HCHCuHMgm all. It's what I do... let the gods sort them out. *Walks away whistling with their loot.*

I do feel sorry for the pointy ears. All that hate they have.

As for Forsworns. A dead Forsworns is a good Forsworns. Forsworn read these words, just good back to Highrock and humm you know the rest. Just go away.

Anyway they carry good loot.

i feel sorry for falmer a once great race reduced to what we see today... i hate forsworn tho...

The answer is option C, The Thalmor

The Falmer seem to be little more than animals at this point in their regression.
The Forsworn are actually people, with a culture, history and so forth.

Thalmor.

Yes thankyouverymuch

OT: i hate the forsworn more; i actually feel sorry for the falmer, what with all that i read in books. Something about them being a peaceful race minding their own lives before the nords came. And "snow elves" just projects a grand graceful image in my mind, and seeing how the falmer look like now.. reduced to empty shells of hate scrounging underground. Hope i don't step on any toes, but it reminds me of all the colonization humans did in the past

So many things to hate. Falmer feeding people to their chaurus. Forsworn being bent on mindless butchery. Bandit chiefs who OHK you without warning. Idiotic dragons who would rather kill farmers than pay any heed to the Elf throwing the spells at them. The Thalmor giving the rest of the Mer an even worse name than they already had. Have to go with Thalmor, this time it's personal.

From the two in the OP, Forsworn. They might be wronged, but trying to absolutely everyone who crosses their path isn't doing their cause any good, they should know better, unlike the Falmer who have devolved to creatures of hatred long before the generation you encounter.

They're victims, driven totally out of their mind by someone else's avidity.

In fact, i like both; they're among the best things of the game in my opinion -even if not properly developed - Dlcs ?

For me, it's the Forsworn. I've not had much dealings with the Falmer, aside from shooting them in the back with arrows. The Forsworn are just nasty, setting up traps everywhere, including one where the rocks remain on the road and kill any horse who happens to gallop through them.

If I see fur, I shoot first and don't even bother with the questions.

The Falmer have a reason for being violent beasts. According to history, they were the ones who started the racial war between them and the Nords, before Ysgramor returned and drove them underground. Their first act was despicable, but what the Dwemer did to them was even worse. Tricking them, blinding them and enslaving them.
The Falmer of today cannot be held accountable for what their ancestors did thousands of years ago.

The Forsworn also have a reason for being violent savages who attack innocents. The Nords' and the Empire's campaigns into the Reach drove the native Reachmen into desperate measures to protect their homeland. Desperate situations calls for desperate acts. That's why (some of) the Reachmen turned to the hagravens and became the Forsworn, performing dark magic and attacking anyone who steps into their lands.

Which group do I think is worst in Skyrim? The answer is an easy one. The Thalmor.
As evil as the Falmer and the Forsworn (albeit hidden under a more civilized facade), and certainly responsible for butchery on the same scale (the sacking of the Imperial City comes to mind).
The Thalmor have no excuse whatsoever for their actions. The Altmer did not suffer under Imperial rule. They lost their empire in favor of becoming a province in another empire, but the Summerset Isles were still a rich and prosperous place. The Oblivion Crisis ravaged all of Tamriel, not just the Summerset Isles. The Thalmor just took advantage of that event to rise to power and resurrect the Aldmeri Dominion, before starting their assassinations of enemies and the ethnic cleansing of Alinor.

They're nothing but nazi elves.

I don't think the circumstances are so clear cut that it's right to hate either group.

I mean... here's the question, are the Falmer evil?

Are the foresworn evil?

Are they?

Tbh I feel a deep pity for the Falmer, driven to the edge of extinction by one race they sought refuge with another who promised to protect them and then promptly turned them into blind slaves.
If anything, it's the Dwemer I hate in this context, what they did to the Falmer was despicable.


...as for the Forsworn, they are rebels who use guerrilla tactics and terrorism, they see themselves as freedom fighters, I can't hate them either tbh because they too were brutally betrayed.

The actions of both factions are reactions... don't hate them, hate those who made them this way.

The Forsworn were never betrayed, they lost their lands to the Nords, in Tamriel it's the strongest who prevail, the Nords were obviously stronger than the Forsworn in war, however rather than just accept this they resort to murdering civilians. That's not noble or even vengeance, it's just murder.

The Falmer's story is a sad one, betrayed by their own cousins the Dwemer in their time of need, Enslaved and blinded. However they're a real danger to Skyrim now, there is no room for negotiating or mercy here, the Falmer will not stop until they have killed or enslaved the entire surface world and reclaimed their land. Which will force me to put each and every one of them down, I hope they can be reasoned with, but I fear not.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying I won't kill Falmer, of course I will, but my attitude to killing them is like a vet that must put down a rabid dog.
I take no pleasure in it and I feel no hatred towards them.

Killing them is, in a way, an act of kindness and respect to the Snow Elves legacy.

As for the Forsworn... maybe betrayed was the wrong word but look... when they took the Reach they killed only very few Nord landowners and then ruled the area in peace.
When Ulfric took the Reach back (contravening the WGC at the same time in his deal with Igmund) who did he kill?

Oh yeah... EVERYBODY he could get his hands on, even after the Reach was well and truly taken.

The Forsworn are no more despicable than Ulfric, to condemn them with any credibility you also have to condemn the Stormcloaks.
Yes it's a nasty situation, but the Reachmen were living in peace and had no further desire for blood when Ulfric came knocking on the door.
His brutality, his bloodlust is what drove them over the edge.
Ulfric killed them with abandon because they weren't Nords... is it any wonder they came to have the same attitude to Nords?

Every Nord who falls to a Forsworn blade is more blood on Ulfric Stormcloaks hands.

Again, I'll kill them without hesitation if I need to... but I don't enjoy it and I don't hate them.

I seem to remember stumbling upon the body of a young Redguard women, riddled with Forsworn arrows by a small pool of water. In her journal it noted how she was sneaking up here to swim despite her father demanding her not to.

She wasn't even a Nord, she was an innocent young girl taking a swim in a small pond, the Forsword slaughtered her like a deer. Slaughtering civilians in war is different to slaughtering them in times of peace, it's despicable during war, it's even worse during peacetime.

Of course I agree with that statement, but the Forsworn are at war.
It's not peacetime for them.

The blood of that Redguard girl is on Ulfric Stormcloaks hands.

Who do you blame... the mad dog that bites you?
Or the cruel master that beat it into insanity?

I don't condone their actions, but I do understand them.
Unfortunately the Forsworn have lost their way... victims of madness and pawns in the machinations of power players in the political elite (including, let's be honest, their own so called leader).

Like the Falmer, if I am honest, all I feel for them is pity.

Hate's a very strong word that gets bandied about a lot, I doubt very much indeed whether the Stormcloaks/Imperials are anywhere near as noble as they would like to make out...

Niamh has never come across a falmer or a Forsworn who didn't try to kill her, therefore she tends to get in the first blow.
+ she enjoys it, to an extent, although that's another story.
In fairness though she's not a terribly balanced example as she's just as likely to off a farmer.
Or not.

Falmer are worse. I hate hate hate them. Nasty ugly things.

Forsworn are really a cool group of barbaric thugs. I wish they were a joinable faction.

But the Forsworn are not animals, they're intelligent beings. They may be tribal but they still know what they're doing. Madanach is no rabid dog, he's just a crime boss.

How is Ulfric Stormcloak to blame for the murders commited by the Forsworn, that is nonsense. Like I said that was war, the Forsworn did start it by taking the Reach, while Nords were busy fighting in the Great War dying in their thousands, they cast the first stone. Yes Ulfric's vengeance was brutal and unecessary, but remember he was tortured by the Thalmor for ages not long before this. Does that make the Thalmor responsible for Ulfric's actions ? No. Same way Ulfric is not responsible for the civilians the Reachmen brutalise and slaughter.

What makes this land the Forsworns ? They were not the first race to walk it or settle it. Nord lore even states that Nords originated in Skyrim (supposedly breathed into existence atop the Throat of the World), travelled to Atmora and then returned many, many generations later.

The Forsworn are not fighting a war. They're hiding in caves and attacking civilians who pass through their territory. Unlike the Falmer who have been rendered feral from their huge amount of time spent underground and their treatement at the hands of the Dwemer, the Forsworn are not. Which makes them evil and barbaric, rather than simply animalistic.

You know the Bear of Markarth is pure propaganda right? The empire commissioned it to save face when the Thalmor came knocking. If Ulfric had behaved like the book mentioned, Madanach and Nepo would've both been dead. If you talk to the actual people of the reach, you'll note that it's the jarl that comes up when they talk about people slaughtering forsworn or suspected forsworn.

Plus I highly doubt the forsworn were this kindly force of justice and peace when they took over. The author has an obvious bias towards the forsworn. (Read his other book, "Madmen of the Reach") Heck in that book he notes the forsworn leader pretty much tells him "We are going to kill everyone who isn't with us.", but tries to make light of it the entire book.


Between the two in the OP, I'd go with forsworn. They aren't semi-mindless like the falmer, they've completely lost themselves in their depravity. Molag Bal did his work well in them.(Yes they worship Bal)

So is the average Forsworn man or woman just inherently evil?

Edit- I'm going to play through the whole thing again, I feel like I'm supporting the Nazis and nobody told me.
I haven't done it on my current character so I can just walk into Markarth and start doing it.

Imma pay more attention this time I think.