Generally peacful giants and mammoths? they always try attack me when im runing past on horse lol

Unless you stray to close to their camps or their Mammoths, Giants leave the Nords alone. Some Giants will even let you stand near them if its out of camp and no Mammoths are around. They are also willing to do trade with the Nords as seen in the quest where you get drunk off your ass with that Daedric prince.

I've always thought that the nords could defend skyrim from the dominion but they couldn't conquer them without the empire

Yeah and I would agree that Nords probably don't have the resources to conquer the Summerset isle. I imagined the Nords would wage war through raids and choke the Summerset isle of trade and terrorize its military and people. Unless the war was going so well for the Nords to make actual inroads into the Summerset Isle, I don't think many pitched open field battles or sieges would take place. Can't really fight a war when your army cant find them and your people are to scared to leave their homes

Elves cannot be dragonborn.
Talos says so!

For the Empire!

Talos isn't a real god, and even if he were he has no say in the matter. It's Akatosh/Auri-El's call.

Actually Talos is a real god. Unless he's a divine being of some kind. I find it a little problematic that he would have the ability to meet the Nerevarine in Morrowind and give the player character that lucky coin.

Lore wise, only Nords have shown the ability to be Dragon born, as well as use the Thu'um. Though I'm fairly certain any race would learn to shout.

He's basically Lorkhan recycled. But as a Thalmor supporter I refuse to acknowledge his divinity nor do I accept his worship as legitimate, Things worked perfectly well when it was only eight divines.

He is an Aedra. Remember this quest?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Blood_of_the_Divines

High Elves are just jealous the gods favor man over Mer

Seems like this needs a bump.

To many people seem to think the Thalmor cant lose and that Skyrim is weak without the Empire.

Skyrim can survive without the Empire. Nords are battle hardened behemoths, at least most are, and some of their commanders are actually very smart people. Skyrim has many mountains and while the Skyrim Nords are used to it, the Thalmor most likely will not. Once the Skyrim Thalmor are completely killed off, the Thalmor won't bother with Skyrim as too many will die for nothing.

However, the Dominion is VERY strong. If an Ulfric controlled Skyrim was to attack a Thalmor occupied territory, they'd be destroyed. Although, the Thalmor did suffer quite a bit of damage during the Great War and through certain Empire allied organizations.

Oh and by the way, Ulfric is technically helping the Thalmor. Not intentionally but still...http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

Okay, returning to the "third army" point.

If the Dominion was able to raise a third army in that five-year period, it further validates the Empire's decision to sue for peace. Two Dominion armies had not only destroyed three Legions, but those remaining - which I've seen quoted as being five, but I can't find a source for this - also had more than half of their soldiers killed, in a period of just four years. Even if the Dominion did not raise a third army, the forces remaining were sufficient to occupy an inhospitable, hostile country for a further five years. Either way, the death toll for continued war would have been appalling.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that the Dominion raised a third army around 4E 175 or 176, and it took the Redguard four or five years to destroy it. Even this is generous, as the war in Hammerfell was ended by treaty, so we don't know what condition the Dominion's forces were in at this time. Now, assume that Hammerfell, circa 4E 175, has a similar martial strength to Skyrim, post-civil war. Assume the defensive barrier of the Alik'r is comparable to the mountains of Skyrim. Assume that the "ready" state of the Dominion is "two armies prepped and ready, one in reserve".

If the Dominion attacked quickly, before Ulfric can regroup, Skyrim faces odds three times worse than Hammerfell. If they strike the Empire first, the odds are even worse.

Didn't read this entire thread. I stopped reading when you said the Nords are the best sailors.

No. Not even close. The Altmer have, by far, the best navy on all of Tamriel. Tiber Septim himself needed a giant robot to get past the Mega-Fleet of the the Altmer.

See, that's what I thought.

The Thalmor cannot do that. Even if Skyrim's citizens were divided on the Civil War, they will not be divided on a Thalmor invasion of Skyrim. Every able bodied man would grab anything in their homes and start a bloody guerrilla war. Not to mention the cold mountains of Skyrim would destroy the morale of the weaker Thalmor soldiers and even the hardened ones will find that the constant hit and run attacks will be crippling to their offensive.

The Stormcloaks don't have to win a single battle, just defend key positions long enough for the Thalmor to realize, "Hey, we're losing too much money and gaining almost nothing!"

Indirect Warfare. Ulfric is a smart man and the Nords are very strong people. Indirect warfare will completely destroy any Thalmor offensive. Not to mention that the forests, caves, and mountains are perfect for that sort of thing. After all, just because the enemy can't see you doesn't mean you can't see the enemy.
~~~~~~~~~~~
As for the Empire? Well yeah...unless they win back Skyrim.

Guerrilla warfare really only works if you have a friendly population to hide among. Unfortunately, the Thalmor don't care about money and they don't care about friendly populations, either. Their ideological goal is the genocide of all mannish races.

The Thalmor are all cowards and sissies.

There is no reason to bate people like that Kael, as much fun as it is to say

As for the Altmer navy vs a Skyrim one. I cant find the book detailing it online but I remember a book in Morrowind that talked about the Nords and Redguards being the masters of sea warfare. I might load up Morrowind during winter break and look for this book. It is stated in the Pocket Guide to the Empire for the Summerset Isle that they built a great navy to combat the Sea Elves. But after the Dominion was beaten and the Isle taken into the Empire. The Sea Elves invaded and nearly captured the entire island, only with aid from the Empire and the Psijic saved the Isle. So I not 100% sure the Dominion has this unstoppable navy. The Nords on the other hand have always been known as competent sea men and you would be hard pressed not to find one in every port and coast of Tamriel.


The occupation of Hammerfell was only the part given to the isle by the Empire, which was the Southern Coast. I haven't seen much information on this war, but it seems it only really took place on the coast. It also seems the Redguard fought the Dominion with guerrilla tactics that was so costly to both sides that a peace treaty had to be signed. Which expelled the Dominion from Hammerfell. If the Dominion had the ability and resources to hold the Southern coast I see so no reason why they shouldn't have. I see that this shows the Dominion is far weaker then they let on.

I'm a little at a loss of how many Legions the Empire actually has. We know 2 unnamed legions and the 8th were destroyed during the war. Other wise we know the Empire had 3 armies in the battle of the Red Ring. One led by the Emperor, composed mainly of Imperial Legions. One under General Jonna made up of Nordic legions and then finally General Decianus legions from Hammerfell. The part that confuses me are quotes like this

Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east

The second army, largely of Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal

This implies more than one legion per General's Army during the Battle. Also What happened to the Legion in Morrowind? And is there ever any mention of Legions that come out of High Rock? Also in a 30 year span I think the legions would be back to its original numbers. And in the best case scenario the 3 legions destroyed would probably be in the process of being rebuilt, maybe even to half the size of a normal legion. The recruitment in Skyrim only lowered when the Civil war started. I doubt the Altmer could make the same claim. Unless as you suggested the Dominion actually makes use of the Wood Elf and Khajiit under their rule. I'm kind of skeptical on the Dominion using either as anything more than servants. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see some lore or actual Bosmer soldiers in the future of Skyrim and be proven wrong

As for Skyrim being able to stand up to the Dominion. I found this little fluff piece from the Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition/Hammerfell to be interesting.

Eastern Hammerfell, less concerned with Sentinel, has continued its efforts to take back the lands conquered by Skyrim in the War of Bend'r-Mahk. There is no question that Redguards, while currently lacking the cohesiveness as a society to form effective armies, are excellent warriors and unmatched at guerrilla warfare. Still, little ground has been regained, for the Nords too are renowned warriors.



This shows the Redguard even lacking in unity drove the Thalmor out of Hammerfell. Yet they cant reclaim territory from the Nords. An occupation that happened in 3E 396 and the Redguards haven't retaken any of that land in the last 200 years? Where as the Redguards fought the Dominion to a stand still and eventual expulsion from Hammerfell in 5 years.

The desert of Alik'r may take up the majority of Hammerfell. But all of the towns and cities outside of Skaven and Dragonstar are located on the fertile grass lands of the coast line. Where the majority of the war in Hammerfell was fought. This enviroment would be far less treacherous to invade than one like Skyrim's. Then again We don't know what the flora and fauna are like, they might have predators in Hammerfell just as bad as Skyrim's.
Compared to the rest of the Provinces I would say Skyrim is either number one or two on the dangerous to live scale.

If Skyrim gained independence, I feel the Nords would act quickly and start to harass the Dominion by raiding the coasts and attacking trade ships. If they really got cocky they might push in land, raid and then leave and then come back at a later date and different town. I'm also fairly certain the Redguard would join the Nords in these raids if not out right form an Skyrim/Hammerfell Alliance and actually invade the Isle full force. I would like to think the Dominion would crumble under the might of two of the most renowned warrior races on Tamriel, but these things are never certain. And no I'm not saying Orcs aren't renown warriors as well ya nit picky Orc players Orsinium and many Orc settlements really don't want anything to do with anyone.

And if the Dominion were to invade the Empire. I think the Nords and Redguard would join in. Relations would be fairly terrible between the Nord/Redguards and the Empire but the enemy of my enemy is my temporary friend And even if the Nords and Redguards don't jump into the fray they could still do what I suggested earlier. By raiding the towns and coast lines of the Dominion would cripple the main war effort and the need to divide forces to defend the homeland and its people. Could you imagine the rage of the Thalmor that dirty humans would dare tread on their land?

Also I thought the goal of the Thalmor was not genocide but subjugation and dominance of the Elven races?

@MacBeth. Having read through the entire thread I've concluded that you've provided some of the bests posts I've ever seen on the matter at hand. God bless you.