In J'derras' eyes, the Stormcloaks are being foolish by attacking the Legion when they should just be storming the Aldmeri Dominion, their REAL enemy. The Stormcloaks don't have to have ties with the Empire to live in Skyrim. Just kill the inbred elves and end it now. No need to drag the Empire into it. It's not like the Empire would come to the Thalmor's aid if you attacked the Aldmeri Dominion. I'd say the Stormcloaks need to use their heads, but being Nords, they'll just headbutt the Legion instead.

IT is all but outright said that Tullius hate the Thalmor. The only way the Dominion will fall is if the Dovahkiin uses his position to rally the other 7 provinces against the Dominion and fights back. Believe it or not, the Stormcloaks are just as weak as the Epire's presence in Skyrim, becasue one person turns the tide either way. If all humans, Dunmer, and Argonians can just put aside their differences and fight under the Dragonborn's banner, the Dominion wouldn't even stand a chance.

If the Stormcloaks attacked the Thalmor without Empire intervention, the Thalmor could use it as an excuse to declare war which the Empire doesn't want so the Stormcloaks would be imprisoned just like Ulfric was after the Markarth incident. The only way that doesn't happen is in an independent Skyrim which can't happen peacefully as the Empire has shown they aren't willing to lose Skyrim's resources peacefully so the only way to directly fight Thalmor is through independence which can only happen through force.

the empire is letting the dominion into nord lands. so if the stormcloaks attack the dominion that are in skyrim, then the dominion will look to the legion to squash the rebellion. and if the legion dont help with the dominion then its great war 2 plain and simple

I've gathered hadvar and his family that the dominion is only in skyrim because they are rebelling, and that before the rebellion almost all the nords still worshiped talos and that the empire turned a blind eye to the matter. Also I completely understand what the nords fighting for, but I think ulfric only started the war and is fighting for his own power, and through these examples I have come to the conclusion that if ulfric wouldnt have killed the high king because he thought that he should be high king, that the thalmor wouldn't even have a presence in skyrim.

Subtlety and subterfuge. The roads of Skyrim are filled with dangers. Bears, Sabercats, Trolls, Wolves, to say nothing of the bandits, vampires, Reachmen, and Falmer.

As long as the bodies aren't found, whose to say how a group of Thalmor officials disappeared?

Let's look at in like WWII, Skyrim is Britain, Cyrodiil is America, High Rock is Russia, and The Dominion is like Germany.

Skyrim is standing down and waiting out the Dominions attacks, while the Dominion just marches where it wants. Skyrim is a strong nation, it will survive. Cyrodiil will stay out of it but is still doing it's best to help Skyrim (if not for Tullius, the Thalmor would be running everything in Skyrim), but eventually things will change and Cyrodiil will come to Skyrim's rescue, and the three nations, High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil will kick the crap out of the Dominion. Problems betweem Cyrodiil and High Rock won't be solved, but they have to work together for the time being to defeat an enemy they have in common.

exactly, wat more is there to say? the empire has to squash the rebellion. or its great war 2

i forgot about the argonian rebellions against the dunmer. is that why im hated or extremely revered by dunmer as my argonian character?
also those claiming that skyrim would be easy picking against the AD your wrong. hammerfell was able to succesfully kick out and the AD and keep them out. plus were talking about a sick and dieing empire that is on life support and has been for some time. skyrim secceding would just be another reason for the doctors to pull the plug.
another thing is that the AD sint really all that powerful in the event the provinces that are not under imperial rule banded together seeing as the AD is just high elves and bosmer. and even the bosmer hate the highelves because they were forced into the pact.

So you think the Thalmor would NEVER come to Skyrim? You honestly think that the Thalmor would leave the essentially capital of Talos worship alone? The Thalmor have made it their mission to wipe out Talos worship so it is certain that they would arrive in numbers.

As for Ulfric, you do realize that the war began for many reasons such as Ulfric being tortured into despising the Thalmor then being imprisoned unjustly by the Empire for doing what they asked him to do by liberating the Reach. Plus a rebellion was pretty much assured to occur as the Nords are a proud people who don't want Thalmor wiping out their religion and people.

because the nords will boast and sing songs about what they did. and more then likely put the elves heads on spikes as warnings to others

My quote is supporting the Stormcloaks, not the Empire. In an independent Skyrim, the Thalmor are attacked while the Empire is blameless which would divert Thalmor resources into fighting Skyrim which would weaken them while allowing the Thalmor to concentrate their forces in Cyrodiil and High Rock as dialogue with a legate stating that the Empire doesn't have enough troops for Skyrim and must recruit locally which means that the Empire must have enough troops for High Rock and Cyrodill but not enough for Skyrim.

yea, i have been trying to figure out a way to put that into words but you seem to have done a good enough job.

i know u are i am too. i was saying the empire would have to bring the rebellion down or at least to a halt if they dont want another war where the dominion could easily take the capital of the empire like they did before. and u said the thalmor to concentrate their forces in cyrodiil and high rock lol but i get wat u saying

Pretty much

What you guys all seem to forget is the thalmor were weaked from fighting a multifront war. Even after peace was established with the rest of the empire the thalmor could not risk moving troops to support the high rock front which is why they ended up losing. As can be seen by the dominions actions in skyrim they are doing several things to break up any united front against them. If they can focuse on one at a time they can easily win from over powering them. It would take along time but elves live pretty long anyway.

A true nord would stay loyal to the empire, what better way to worship talos than by maintaining the empire he created. Whatever way you look at it ulfric was a traitor and unwittingly carrying out the AD's plans, divide and conquer . Im sure we all found the thalmor dossiers

I know I did.

Don′t remember who said this in Skyrim but, Ulfric is an opportunist, and he doesn′t give a damn about Skyrim, he just wants reputation to become High King. That′s why he murdered the previous High King.

That's funny, since the empire has already lost most of its links.

To the OP: When does Ulfric ever demonstrate "extreme hatred" towards races other than Nords? I'll make it easy- never. The Dunmer were allowed to take Nord land free without compensation, and to swear no fealty to any jarl and remain sovereign. Now they [censored] about it as if that is discrimination. Undoubtedly some Nords do discriminate against them, but Ulfric is simply allocating scarce resources to the war effort and to his political base. He has no obligation to the Dunmer, as they have none to him. He won't let Argonians into the city, but this could be about their reputation as smugglers and thieves, just as the Khajiit caravans are kept out of every Nord city. It may also be to prevent unrest with the Dunmer since those two hate each other.

About your friend's reasoning, keeping the empire together is only a good strategic goal if the empire has good leadership. It doesn't. Cyrodiil is selling out its provinces to save itself and Skyrim doesn't have to stand by and wait to be the next Hammerfell.

as to the ban of talos worship, it's only untill the empire gets the strength to beat the dominion, or as Will Rogers said "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

and as to skyrim fighting the dominion on it's own, as Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

That's what I'm saying. Mede's death during the events of Skyrim is undoubtedly gonna be canon, DD or otherwise, which leaves it open for the Dragon born to take the throne and lead the Empire to victory.

That ship has sailed. As soon as they had a chance, Black Marsh and Elsweyr seceded from the empire. The empire stood by while Valenwood was taken. Then there's Hammerfell. What makes you think these are going to trust another imperial general no matter how awesomely awesome you are? Maybe it hasn't sunk in to some people that at least a couple of these provinces simply don't want the empire or the horse it rode in on?

There's no way they make that canon. That certainly isn't my canon.

Actually, this isn't Talos' empire, it's the Mede Empire which was born when a warlord usurped the throne which means the current empire has nothing to do with Talos' descendents. in addition,in Morrowind, Talos himself said the empire would collapse which means that he has no problem with the Empire collapsing which means the Stormcloaks are the ones who are more loyal to Talos as they want to worship him openly which ensures he doesn't fade away and therefore keeps the world intact.

After all, you are the only dragon born, as far as I'm concerned that put you in the front of the line. Then you save the world I think they would be crazy not to nominate you