The problem is it takes too many hits.

Bah, like I have to read all of this. Here is my 2 cents though...

Destruction is not weak unless you gimp your character by not using enchanting as well, but that is kinda like not using smithing at all as a warrior. When you're able to reduce casting costs by around 75% you find out that you can practically spam expert level destro spells. Takes my lvl 30 Argonian mage about 4 Thunderstrikes to sink a Frost Dragon, and thats long before it lands. In fact the amount of enemies that survive even two thunderstrikes are very few. But I agree that Bethesda again made mage players a little weak, though nothing like in Oblivion or Morrowind where mages were completely useless unless you modded the game. Mage NPCs and at times dual wielding warriors are basically the only thing that is dangerous beyond lvl 20, unless ya crank up the difficulty a bit.

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2275
If you play on a PC there really is no reason not to mod Skyrim. Hell, thats the main reason why I always go with the PC version. And well, if you choose to play on PS3 or XBox 360, bummer for you.

Yes magic negates armor, however the AI does not get any armor perks or buffs and has so low an armor rating that its negligable to a normal weapon attack. So the fact that magic negates it is almost pointless.



Dude 70 damage is pathetic for a melee weapon, I have 1h swords that do 200+ damage and 2h greatswords that do 400+ damage PER HIT. And thats not counting power attacks, elemental weapon enchantments, AND potion buffs.

So yeah destruction is completely underpowered in damage, and has only one buff to increase it (potions). You can easily show this via a dragon encounter with Ancients. Using lightning storm master spell with a 110% damage buff potion and the two damage perks it takes at least 12-15 seconds of constant uninterupted casting to kill an Ancient Dragon. A mage can be interupted at any moment during that time and be forced to re-cast taking another 4-5 seconds to dual cast the storm spell.

A warrior with any melee weapon can 1 or 2 hit a dragon and kill it in 5 seconds (or less) and the dragon can not interupt them.

So yeah its underpowered, arguments against are highly flawed.

Here's the thing that really confounds me.

NPC mages are able to do TONS of damage with the same spells that svck for the Player Character. Something is wrong.

When magic resists were broken, I found out about the bug the hard way: Stepping on a Fire Rune. Now, fire rune according to the spell description, does 50 damage. Assuming that the caster had the fire damage perks, it would do only 75 damage. However, somehow this 75 damage Fire Rune killed me instantly, despite the fact that I have 250 HP. Something is wrong.

I dont know how much more obvious it needs to be for you folks who think it's just peachy-keen that something is definitely messed up. It seems to me that the damage is supposed to scale for the Player Character just like it seems to scale for NPCs, but it's broken.

To the people who say "it's a single player game and doesnt need to be balanced", you need to open your eyes. If the game didn't need to be balanced, they would have left the option to be a mage completely OUT of the game. It would just be a hack-n-slash platformer with no leveling system and no option to play any differently. If that's what you want, Skyrim is not for you.

TL;DR = NPC destro damage scales, Player destro damage does not. Destruction = broken.

It takes as many hits as it takes. For some reason, you believe it should take fewer, yet it does not. Sometimes, you've just got to play the game.

Just be happy you have the means to adjust the difficulty level. When you're a high level fighter, all we have left is to restart a character or completely nerf who we set out to be.

This makes no sense.

Could not agree more

Might not kill in 2 hits, but gets the job done

All the while you're running around like a ninny away from your melee-wielding foe as you wait for the agonizingly slow magicka regen to get so you can cast anything again, or as you quaff potions like you were trying to get completely sloshed on watered-down mead.

Q: What is the most common after-battle activity for mages?

A: Urinating.

perhaps at the moment it does, but later you will see it not work quite so well.

This
look in most games mages have high atack and low defense the npc mages have this right but the pc mages don't for those people who say "destruction is fine its just different" the thing is yes it's different but unlike the other builds where I have lvl 100 in the skill and can go toe to toe with npc warriors if your a mage you get 1 hit by master/archmages while it takes you 15 times the same spell to kill them when it comes to balance I don't care if one build is better than another but if I'm a lvl 100 in destruction i should be able to do equal or more damage than master/archmages do but I do 15 times less
the thing I find ridiculous is the scaling is there it's just that the pc doesn't have acess to it and is gimped

Being a mage doesn't force you to wear no armor, you can use whatever you want, therefore you can takes as many hits as warriors.

Like I said in a previous post, I can kill an ancient dragon in 12 dual cast spells on master. If you have a high magic resist, and/or the atronach effect, the enemy mages do barely any damage to you, pretty much nothing. Some people will naturally get better armor as they progress, but forget about magic resist. I assume you have no magic resist on master, thats why you get killed in one shot.

Why comment if you have no idea.

Ancient dragon in 12 dual spells? I think I spend more arrows than that as a "pure archer". A "pure meele" wouldn't even get close to it before he was toast.

I have played the 3 main classes, and the mage is CRAP fullstop when he is a desctuction mage. Conjuration? Fine, Illusion? Fine, Resto? Fine, Alteration? Broken Desctruction? Broken.
While your casting those 12 spells my warrior has run up and 1 hit the dragon head on, or my thief has 1hit backstabbed it from sneaking. It is impossible for a destruction mage to get any where near the DPS of either class.

I used a +120% destruction potion and dual casting incinerate, on master.

You can exploit the system to make stupidly powerful melee and archery weapons, to the extent you can 2-3 shot that ancient dragon on master. But you don't need to be that powerful, its no fun one hit killing everything.

One hit killing an ancient dragon, they have like 6000 health on master. Those 12 spells can be cast when they are flying above, you can only use your weapons when they land. I think your point is really, 'I am crap with destruction'.

A pure mage without Conjuration is a dead mage.

And you really think out should be like this? One hitting dragons? You really think it's that destruction is underpowered and not that melee is overpowered? Strange thought.

Exactly.

i have a Breton with the atronach stone and I do have magic resist items too not that much do due that I don't like enchanting due to it not doing much for mages ( ironic right? the mages crafting skill and it's better for every other class) and i like to wear robes due to role playing and I'm getting one shot on adept with the atronach Stone Breton ability and magic resist items also the atronach stone is bugged that you cannot summon atronachs/dremora lords so most summoners wouldn't use it but still magic resist and atronach stone do not Change the fact npc
mages do more damage than you don't believe me? use dead thrall in a master Mage with expert spells they will destroy anything faster than you ever could
the game should be playable for EVERYONE not just min-maxers who do everything to have an advantage

For those who are on a PC and want a fix for this and who don't know it already, try this mod: http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611 or this http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2275 or this http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2934

No your simply in denial. First of all incinerate is an expert level spell that has to be targeted and has a time to target delay ala arrows. Lightning has no such delay, and the master spell can be spammed for continous non stop damage. So I know for a fact with lightning storm I can kill an ancient way way faster than you can dual cast 12 spells. No matter how good you think your "leet skilz" are your simply not going to get 12 dual cast shots in a row off, on target every time on a moving dragon. While I can laser beam it out the sky way faster than your spells with storm and a 110% buff potion.

And its STILL slower (in time from your first attack till you kill it) and more cumbersome than simply waiting for it to land and then smacking it or dragonrend it out the sky and smacking it.

And using the "fun" argument is a moot point entirely, we are talking gameplay mechanics not playstyle. I could run around naked in game using only novice level spells IF I WANTED TO. Destruction would still be underpowered regardless of that fact.

I don't see how so many people have trouble with destruction. My level 35 pure Mage that goes without armor has had none of the problems people are complaining about. I just choose relevant perks and use firebolt constantly. And no I don't "abuse" enchanting.

Well it's not ironic as you have no point, it does a huge amount for mages, helps with the huge magicka costs, also fortify health/magicka.

I use robes as well, its more fun for me. Are you saying having a high magic resist doesn't help against magic?! If you have 85% magic resist enemy mages will do barely anything to you. It's not difficult to get to that 85% aswell, breton 25%, mara quest 15%, alteration perk can add 30%, lord stone adds 25% and items can add magic resist.

The dead thralls won't do more damage than me, maybe if you are using apprentice spells as I suspect you are, but for me using expert spells I will easily do more damage.

Yeah I could be using thunderbolt for ~190 damage per dual cast, its easier to hit with thunderbolt, but I prefer incinerate. I'm not arguing expert vs master, they are both useful to me, for me using the expert spells casted kills ancient dragons faster. I also don't shoot incinerates at it when it's moving, I wait for it to hover (which is does very often) then I usually land all my shots.

I'm saying I have no problem with destruction on master, even against ancient dragons. Yeah if I went for a exploiting crafting warrior I might be able to 3 shot that dragon, I don't really care though to be honest, I do enough damage with my mage.

The fun point wasn't a part of my argument, I was just saying I prefer using robes as its provides more challenge for me, so your point about that was moot.

Dragons are overgrown cliff racers. I better be able to one shot those pricks by the time i'm level 50.