You dont have to exploit crafting at all to get high damage gear. A 100 skill smith with no perks can craft a high damage sword easily using store bought pots and crafting gear. Two skill enchants for the relative weapon school (+1h ring/amulet) and your looking at 200 dps.

And you do about 200 dmg with expert level spells. So what's the point? No smithery needed. Not even destruction level 100. And bought fortify destruction stuff is enough. No need for enchanting as well.

The point is as soon as you DO use perks for smithing weapons magic is left behind. A smith perking to deadric can have weapons of 200+ damage, again without exploiting crafting. All done by simply using store bought pots and crafting gear. Add perks to enchanting and you can then easily get a dps of 500+. No exploits needed.

Mages cant do that AT ALL.

Dual wielding destruction causes the enemy to stagger EVERY time you hit them if you gethat perk, so i think its fine, you can pretty much stop all enemies in their tracks , INCLUDING DRAGONS, if you do not explore this perk, it is your own fault.

I'm saying magic resist does not matter because we are talking about destruction and destruction does damage I'm saying enchanting doesn't matter because it doesn't increase damage you can't increase damage like you could for a weapon and you can only decrease destruction cost the only way to increase damage is alchemy and the 50% perk

Stun locking is never a good gameplay mechanic, and is still besides the point. It does not increase the dps in any way, and in my example above using lightning storm is not even required.

Nope. All they are asking for is a reasonable challenge. Drinking 9001 potions in one fight is not fun. Getting 1shotted by everything is kinda underpowered. They dont want it to be a faceroll, but not impossible either. l2 not to strawman.

The dual wielding perk does. It augments the spell to do more damage. Dual wielding firebolt does around 90 damage i believe, so dual wielding incinerate does...... about 200, and as a mage , you should be upgrading you magic a LOT more than your health and stamina.

As I said, you do about 200 dmg every 0.8s as soon as you hit level 75 with your destruction skill. No other skill necessary. No crafting, no enchanting, no alchemy. Just destruction.

I do that amount with dual wielding incinerate at level 40.....but i guess people dont want to upgrade their magika ?

Hello please read my post, I was talking about the impact perk which is what the person I was responding to was talking about. That perk does not add any damage in any way whatsoever. Dual wielding perk does as does the 2x damage perks per destruction tree.


And thats it tapped out. While warriors/thieves power on past.

Way to keep missing the point dude.

Illusion is especially useful for a mage as well, but conjuration is almost a complete must.

No, it does not add any damage what so ever, but if you have magika, and use the dual wielding perk, you basically have infinite arrows that do 200 damage per arrow, that stop ALL enemies in their place.

How, without exploiting? Weapon skill has to be at 100 and perked. Weapon I'd already deadric as you have stated. So how do you increase your damage further?
And by the way, do you really think 500 dmg weapons are okay when the typical enemy on master level has about 500 health?

Expert and Master level spells are okay, but not as good as by Daedric Battleaxe

Stun locking is a cheap mechanic, that should be percentile based, it should happen every so often not all the time. Its sad with the lack luster magic system you basically have to always have it for destruction to be even the least bit viable along with the magic reduction that comes from enchanting.

Why is alteration and destructo broken?

i havent played as theses classes and were thinking about doing it in the future

Ill give you the exact example from my Breton with his daedric greatsword.

Smithing 100 perked to daedric
Enchanting 100 all perks
Alchemy 76 5/5 increase perks

Wearing 4 store bought items for potion crafting
Create potion of smithing
Create potion of enchanting

Wearing 4 store bought items for smithing
Drink smith potion and use grindstone.

Visit enchanter table, drink enchant potion, craft gauntlets/boots/ring/amulet of +1 hand skill

TADA => 500+ dps

No exploiting of crafting loops for max crafting gear and weapons or 1.2 glitch potions

And thats not even enchanting the blade itself yet. 2x elemental enchants and wammo even more DPS.




The alteration issue is a seperate one; the 45 second limit on its master level spell which requires dual casting taking several seconds that can be interupted, and ignores previous Alteration perks for armor entirely by giving a direct 80% damage reduction. Plus the expert level spell is maxed at 300 armor and only when using all clothing. The spell and the tree leaves a massive gap in protection and wastes perks. Ignore it and use armor instead.

Just two minor corrections here. Firstly, you can't buy 4 store items for smithing / alchemy, only 3 as you cannot find/buy a ring of Alchemy, nor can you find/buy a body armor of Smithing. Those items can only be created via enchanting. Secondly, to get Alchemy 5/5 perks requires 80 in Alchemy.

For my own two cents on this topic, I feel there is only one major problem in Destruction that keeps me from having as much fun as I could have: lower cost spells slowly become obsolete as you gain levels and progress through the game. From a "fun" standpoint ignoring balance of DPS across the melee/archery/magic lines, I'd like to be able to enjoy certain spells types and effects more than just a few levels. So for me, I would be perfectly happy if they decided to make spells more useful later and made them more expensive as well -- probably with the way the game is now that could best be achieved with spell making but that might be asking a lot at this point.

Yes sorry my mistake, I hold my hands up. I forgot entirely that I didnt buy all the alchemy/smith gear (still only 22/23% respectively though, same as store items). And the 76 was honestly a typo (86) I missed while fixing my errors ( I am dislexic so I do make quiet a few errors in spelling.) I will not correct my previous post however, as I am not one of those small minded chaps who has to be right all the time and you have noted my errors so they should stay

However my point still stands that without resorting to exploiting the diminishing returns of potioneering or using the broken pots of 1.2 you can create weaponry that far outstrips a mages damage output.

Totally agree! I personally think it would be great if spell-making was brought back in, even if it was traded in for a cap to the magicka cost reduction so that we couldn't just craft insanely powerful spells that cost nothing. If their concern is that it makes the whole "Master" vs "Novice" level spells seem pointless then they could offer you the chance to remake those spells more powerful yet more magicka intensive.

I can get through things with my Destruction mage who relies totally on the Master level spells and really don't find that many hugely challenging scenarios but I do recognize that the game would be a whole lot more fun if I had more choice. I don't really want to one-shot things, though there is always that challenge in mind "can I make a character and spell that is so powerful it will obliterate anything the game offers?" but I would hope that the process of making such a spell would take a while and not be too terribly useful in all situations.

So in your game dragons just stand around waiting to be hit? In my game they fly around and I have to wait until they land to slash at them. My mage can blast them while they are still in the air.

One shout ; Dragonrend > smack em dead.

EDIT* You are also making the error of mistaking gameplay style with gameplay mechanics. In game mechanics terms (ie regardless of approach/style) a destruction mage cannot deal out the same DPS as weaponised characters.

We're comparing one handed damage versus one handed damage. You are then arguing that somehow because you can dual cast that levels the playing field. Dual casting does not level the playing field as obviously you can dual wield weapons.

There is an extreme damage gap between melee damage and magic. With the most glitched mage you can do 220 damage per attack with both hands. With an extremely novice mele user using only random loot you can do easily 600 damage per attack with both hands or try a little harder and start doing 2k damage.

Even with dual cast incinerate, it still costs 1000 magicka to kill one typical enemy with ALL the perks at level 45. In 7 hits.

Basically the take away from this is that if you use every single exploit and advantage possible in the game you can do a third of the damage of a novice mele user.

Don't get me wrong, my own charachter uses glitched spells and I do just fine but i also use melee avoiding melee damage bonuses on purpose. It is obviously an extremely unlevel playing field though anyone can see how incredibly extremely silly it is. For comarison bows can also do 1k damage and have a stun abbility too, and do not cost 1k magicka with all perks to kill a typical high level enemy.

Honestly I feel that if spells simply switched the base magicka cost and damage then removed all magicka reducing enchants we would be all set.

There will be balance fixes in January.


http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1300562-skyrim-what-were-working-on/