While it may remain unnecessary to say at this point, to preface my first topic, I'll say it: Skyrim is awesome.

It's the biggest game I've ever played and it's the best looking game I've ever played. Open world exploration has never been better (to my knowledge).

THAT SAID, scope and graphics should always be second to performance. And Skyrim fails to deliver this.


Among the inevitable mess of technical issues this game faces, 99% of them I can accept.

Town guards swimming indoors? Funny.
Roads taking right turns straight up into the sky? Bizarre.
Pieces of the floor and wall missing to fall through into the void? Oops.
Werewolves still equipped with swords in their hands and torches between their legs? Annoying.
Significant offline lag during basic movement, as well as freezing and crashing forcing players to hard reset their consoles? UNACCEPTABLE.


I don't think I'm out of line here to expect the brand-new game I purchased not to force me to hard-reset my console 7 TIMES in 20 minutes.

I bookmarked this forum, waiting several weeks for this new update to come out because I've been telling everyone: "Skyrim is awesome, but it's lag and crashing are infuriating! I read that the next update should fix it." only to experience the following:

*load saved game*
*take two steps*
*wait 20 seconds staring at a static image*

Come on! I literally can't sprint/horseride/werewolf run ANYWHERE on the overworld without lagging as the game tries to spawn bushes! These faster forms of travel as they are designed for COMPLETELY lose their purpose when it literally takes just as much time to WALK where I'm going! The only difference is if I walk, I only sometimes lag, but at least I'm not staring at a static image most of the time!

I just put the controller down when it happens now. Do you realize how bad a technical problem is when your game's lag is so bad it makes the game entirely unplayable, and you don't even have the excuse of a poor internet connection?

To put it succinctly, and I think I speak for everyone here: I would VASTLY prefer a smaller game that works, than a bigger game that just buckles under it's own weight. If I had the choice to lose half the dungeons, half the quests, and half the resolution for a game that rarely lags or crashes, I'd take it.


Again, it speaks a LOT for how good the game is when offline lag and crashing are outweighed by it's capacity to entertain. That's an instant death sentence for most games these days, Bethesda. But really? The Creation Kit? Side-quest fixes? Decoration fixes? Granted, I really appreciate them, but the priority should always be on basic performance. MOVING 10 FEET FALLS UNDER BASIC PERFORMANCE.


Okay I'm done ranting. I know that seems harsh, but that's the result of over two weeks of irritation and hope with no payoff.

Please... PLEASE fix the lag and crashing, Bethesda. I ask nothing more from you. I just want to play your game.

How large is your save file? how long has the game been played? Alot of the issues you have mention sound like they are basically glitch upon glitch upon glitch that has been saved to your file, if so, there may be nothing that can save it (its like save corruption but worse as its still readable and it just gets worse and worse and worse). Even if its patched something saved to a file is hard to get rid of/fix

Have you tried a completely new game to see if it stutters? cleared patch and cache? installed to HD?

You speak of issues but only t/s Ive seen you mention is just loading or reloading the game.

I gotta agree with this guy.

What he says is perfectly understandable, and as patch 1.4 gets to each individual console/PC and serious bugs still persist, more angry posts will come to this forum. For good reason. Really, I personally never cared for the decoration glitches and journal issues. I can still play the game and enjoy it with those. But it's been four patches and four months since November and we're still finding completely unacceptable problems with the game. That's just disrespectful towards customers.

It's nothing personal, we all still like the game, but as much as Bethesda deserves accolades for creating the world of Skyrim, they also deserve all the hate for the bugs.

but to say 1.4 caused it may or may not be true. While there is a laundry list of issues, majority of them are situational and inconsistent to happen. Those type of issues are harder to take care of. I used to do Tech Support for DSL and FiOS internet and believe me its hard to explain to customers what intermittent signal and slow throughput are caused by. There is not one certain thing that causes it, variety of factors can come in. Skyrim is no different as the same bug can be experienced by several players but caused by different factors. Though the ones that those few are consistently being effected by the same things, it makes it easier to pinpoint and quash the bug.

Also note that everyone's mileage varies and this goes for any game. One person can have a buggy mess, another dont or may not have as many. The more complicated the game, the more ways that it will break. Murphy's Law. I am a customer of Beth, no different than anyone else here, and while I havent hit the extremes with bugs, I know how annoying they are (havent played 1.4 but not being able to get a reward for 'Toying with the Dead' always annoyed me) and how frustrating it can be. I see it when my wife plays how bad some aspects can get (she restarted to get the Windhelm house cause we both think its one of the best houses so far in game for display and other features).

Yeah. I wasn't referring to his issues in particular, just the 'disappointed with 1.4' part. Posts like this are pretty much a consequence of a broken game. People get angry for a good reason, then come here and go on a rant. Since they are angry while they write, some of the things they say may not be right. But in the end, they are angry because the game is not working properly, as it should.

Glad they fixed blood honer glitch but know i found another glitch in Darkness Return where you do every thing and you talk to nocturnal lady and when you go to talk to Karliah instead of giving your your next step she just says "Yes, Fellow Nightingale" and making it impossible to beat it Hopefully Patch 1.5 will have a fix

My main character's save file is 11 MB, however the problems are present with all characters which start off with save files at 3 MB.

I've started multiple new characters, cleared the cache multiple times, am unable to continue play with my characters on older versions (so am unwilling), and I can't install the game because I don't have a harddrive. That said, I shouldn't have to.

Who ever said that? The point is 1.4 didn't solve the issue. I'm not blaming 1.4 for anything. The issue existed in 1.3 and quite possibly earlier if not on release.

Naturally I bought the game new, it asked to update, I did, then I started a character which I've played until now. About 20+ levels into the game, the issues have either gotten worse or compounded over time to the point that I want to fix it, and I refuse to sacrifice my character for it. I've already restarted my character once because Bethesda neglected to allow players to change their character appearance after they've already made it.

For the record, I'm not angry. Very frustrated, but not angry. I'm very thorough and specific about what I say, so if you're implying I've innocently tripped over some of my own words to post this here, please tell me what's catching you wrong.

I had some strange glitches before 1.4, like SOUL TRAPPING MYSELF SOMEHOW! And its still there after....seriously...how was that NOT fixed....

It wasn't in the list of things they were addressing for the patch?

Omnizoa what platform are you playing? If Xbox, is it prior to slim?

I've had a issue with 2 characters where my one handed was brought down to Red with 15 and no diseases effects present. One charcter i was able to level it up and fix, but other had 100 an couldnt level up. Has anyone noticed if this has been fixed? I since deleted the unfixable charcter

My main level 54 character, Jaldian is always frozen in time every 2 minutes. Literally. My girlfriend can manage to play her level 26 character, Victoria ON MY XBOX without freezing, so I'm certain my system is not at fault. I just made a new khajiit character yesterday on a different account, and sure enough, it never freezes. I've heard a thousand times, "Just start a new game; playing from different perspectives brings the game to its full potential," blah blah blah blah. I DON' WANT TO TURN MY BACK ON MY HIGH LEVEL CHARACTER. I've spent too much time and effort on the character. This is totally unfair. All I want to do is play this amazing game and I can't even do it over the issues.

clear you xbox Cache and it shoudl fix the Hard boot issues

I'm on an Elite, the thin black Xbox that uses internal harddrives.

Yeah. Time and effort put into a character is one thing, but potentially as important is the investment we've put into our characters. Unique personalized experiences have occurred in our games that are nigh impossible to duplicate, ignoring the fact that we don't WANT to duplicate them.

"Holy [censored], that was hard! I've been desperately trying to get to Sky Haven Temple, and I just keep running into Dragons! Alright you Forsworn, time to- AHHH!!! My first Ancient Dragon! On Master difficulty! Spare me!!!"

*1 hour later after multiple game overs*

"Finally! That was ridiculously hard! 3 Dragons in one day, what a trek. Alright, Delphine and Esbern appear fine. Aela? You alright? Have some healing. Okay, where's Meeko? Meekooo? Meeko? ...Meeko? Meeko NOOOO!!!"

*takes Meeko's body back to the shack and leaves journal*

I shall remember you, Meeko... You helped slay 3 dragons this day...




*game crashes*

Could we please stay on the topic of performance, people? I know there are a million and one things Bethesda could do to make the game better, but this topic exists to focus on just two of those, arguably the most important of those besides game-breaker glitches: lagging and crashes.

As I've already said, that hasn't solved this issue.

By the way you have just described your issue, but with your girl's ability to play her character and your ability to play a new character, it could be that your high-level character's save file is corrupted. As DrunkLastKnight mentioned in a previous post, once you have played and experienced a glitch/bug, if you keep doing work-arounds and making save after save after save with those same plus new glitches, they're all getting save to that character's save file and are compounding each other.

While the patch may have fixed and adjusted the newer characters whose files weren't as large (or maybe without so many glitches saved into the save game coding), it is possible that your high-level character's save file is beyond repair, even for the most invasive of patch fixes.

I know you wont like my answer, and I know you don't want to hear it again, but with the way you describe your character's problem I think that deleting him and starting over with him might be the only way to fix these issues. That svcks to have to say, and I'm not trying to place the blame on you, but continuing to play that character while other newer characters (and their save files including the Khajiit that you created) are doing just fine with no problems, may have just saved glitch on top of glitch into the save file and the problem has compounded itself so badly that the patch just can't touch it.

I've made new characters numerous times. I've never gone past level 50 on any of them and last week I started a new character that was meant to primarily be a stealth archer, and going to the level cap. 60 hours in and I'm already level 62, finished numerous quest lines, created some nice armor and maxed out many skills.

Then this patch comes along and now my load times are twice as long, waiting takes twice as long, saving takes twice as long, and there are constant random frame freezes. The thing is, I don't want to just start a new character. I want to continue this one, without all of the problems 1.4 has dropped on me. I had very little issue with the previous patch, but now it's completely broken on my game.

Not to be confused with when the game literally TELLS you it's corrupted. Right?

See, it's that "might" that's getting me...

You realize, of course, that if this were true, then Bethesda knew that "By the way guys, any game you start will inevitably become unplayable given time, until we patch in 4 months after we release it, that is."

Instead of accepting this issue, doesn't it seem a little bit fair to... complain?

How would you like it if you got a brand new car, with all the trimmings. It looks cool, it's fast, it corners well, it's durable, it looks pristine, a ton of convenient gagdets it comes with indispensable little bonuses, it's awesome! It's exactly what you wanted! Except... after a couple months go by, it becomes more apparent... the gas mileage is significantly less than what was advertised... You're told an extensive check-up covered under the warranty'll fix it, and you accept, but the issue persists, and it's seriously dragging on you everywhere you go. Replace the car?


Now, the stubborn among us may point out "But Bethesda didn't advertise their game wouldn't have bugs, you'd have to be an idiot to expect that from them" OR "what do you expect, a perfect game?"

No. But I expect a WORKING game. Everyone who puts their money down on ANYTHING, expects at the very least for the product to work, and I've NEVER had a game crash on me before Skyrim. That's not a good record to break.

Judging from what I've seen and heard of Bethesda, I will say this: They are extremely creative, talented, and ambitious. Their technical works tends to be a little sloppy though. I refuse to accept that slowdown, let alone crashes are simply the result of a big game played extensively. Other open-world physics-based games like GTA IV and Assassin's Creed don't have these issues, and I realize that they don't heavily incorporate unique NPC pathing and inventory, but you know what? That's not always present in the game!

The entire reason how open-world games even WORK is that the game is designed to spawn and despawn objects as they enter and leave the player's vicinity. Including houses, NPCs, inventories, weapon racks, audio queues, doorways, dropped items, quest items, yada yada yada yada yada! Me walking two feet, MILES AWAY from any of these reported glitches should not be impacting me at all. They should be despawned, as far as the game is currently concerned, they do not exist.

So now, either the game is improperly despawning objects, causing the game to lag and crash, or the game is designed poorly. Evidence suggests the latter.

On one of my several attempts to take down my first Ancient Dragon, I reloaded a particular save. In it I discovered a road near me just stops and starts going straight up into the sky. It happened only once, and I had reloaded that same game save multiple times. This suggests that the problem is not an innocent bug that's simply the result of two complex systems colliding in a way unpredicted by the developers, but a problem in how the game actually loaded the save file. If I'm right, many of these problems aren't just situational bugs, but problems in how the game is designed to actually run.

That Bethesda's games have a history of technical issues doesn't really help their case.

I just offered a suggestion as to the possible cause for the situation. I'm not a programmer, so all I can offer is speculation based upon what is described.

Not much more can be done on the Forums than that.

What? That "you played it too long"?

That it was saved with glitch after glitch being saved to the save file, yes. After so many layers and lines of code like that, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if one patch couldn't sort it all out.

Not everything, of course not, but improved performance should have been immediately noticeable.

Not sure what you are talking about Uriel. The game doesn't save the glitches to your save file. They are an inherent part of the game coding itself. The save file is completely irrespective of that fact, while yes they can affect a save file, the problem most definitely is not that layer after layer of glitches were saved to your save file...

I understand you mean well but I don't think this is a situation to talk about something you don't know. (For lack of a better phrase, not trying to sound like an ass)

@ Omni: I'm in the exact same boat as you. This crap is lame and I shouldn't have to deal with it, period. Simply put, this "anti-patch" never should have made it through the testing, and it's doing nothing but inconveniencing the consumer.

If you are haveing lag even with a new playthrough them it maybe a hardware issue. The elite's are the old black ones and the slims are the new ones with the redisigned case. I have been playing on a 16 MB save after 1.4 with no lag issues.

I'm not criticizing what the patch does, dude. Frankly, I see some of the issues that were present before that it has fixed and a texture problem I was having seems to be gone now, so thus far I see no harm in the patch, however I will criticize what the patch doesn't do and that's to rectify these other more important problems.


On a side note: I've started a brand new post 1.4 update character, and immediately stole a horse to test the lag. While there is significantly less of it (probably because of the new character), it's still there. The game still hitches here and there and bushes fail to load at the proximity they're supposed to, ultimately popping in after I've sat in the area for a while if even at all.