.30-06 is still a very popular hunting round.

I don't know how popular hunting was in 2077 though. Either way it would be at least as common as the far more rare (IRL) 45-70.

Honestly I don't understand people's obsessions with AK-47s. I agree they are powerful (and EXTREMELY cheap and easy to repair) but even in skilled hands they recoil more than a steer that got prodded by an electric eel. Essentially they are spray and pray guns but more or less the whole reason why they are so popular is because you can wade through swamps, bury it in sand, stomp through snow and the damn thing still works most of the time. AK-47s are def NOT the most efficient or accurate of killing machines.

A BAR on the other hand.... what a beautiful thing...

You heard it here Obsidian... The BAR is in demand! Let's see it!

I get it! Thanks for the repeated lessons in BARs. Some sort of brownie gun, presumably made of chocolate. Whatever.

Yeah but the BAR was generally used while lying down, it was NOT a hip shot weapon! (except for maybe Clyde)

Eh. Adding .30-06 ammo to the game would work, but only if you do something different with it. Like, make the sniper rifles take .30-06, then introduce a battle rifle like the US M-14 or the H&K G3 both of which use 7.62mm NATO (close enough to .308 for game-level accuracy). This lets you make the .308 rounds cheap and common (they are), while making the "sniper grade" .30-06 ammo expensive.

I feel the topic starter's pain when it comes to automatic weapons. It's kind of sad that the most powerful automatic weapon in the game is a horrendously inaccurate sub machine gun. Where's our medium machine gun? Make it heavy, make it awkward to use, but for gods' sake give us a gun that leads to the classic Fallout-style overkill of bandits being blown apart by a short range burst. Or as suggested, the BAR. It's an automatic rifle, not a machine gun, but still: it fits right in with the 1950's styling and would give some serious firepower (though you'd have to take some liberties and rechamber it to .308).

Really the lack of automatic weapons is kind of weird. The R91 assault rifle was the standard US infantry rifle at the time of the Great War, yet somehow the west coast has none of them at all. We're stuck with some NCR mass produced cheap knockoff of who-only-knows-what-it's-supposed-to-be-according-to-the-fiction. We don't even have any Chinese Assault Rifles, despite being a good 2500 miles closer to the Alaskan front than the DC area is.

I kinda like that accuracy matters now.

Automatic weapons break the player skill/reward level in almost any singleplayer game because you can just spray and pray at a certain point.

There should be drawbacks to an automatic, normally it's accuracy but with VATS that's not a good balancing factor as much.

So they made it their armor penetration, that I can live with, it stands to reason that firing more bullets means more recoil and if you're making each shot count you can use a bigger bullet.

An assault rifle or 12.7mm SMG is still a brutal weapon at level 30, and in the mid-range a 10mm SMG does the most damage of any weapon in the game at the first level you can obtain one (level 4 or 5 at the NCRCF).

Plus look at the classic fallout games. Virtually none of the "BFGs" at the top of the various guns trees were automatics. You had the Gauss Rifle/Pistol for guns (yes they used to be small arms, why they made them energy weapons I will never understand), the pulse weapons for energy, the super sledge, the power fist, and the minigun/boazor. Only one of those (the minigun) was an auto, the rest were all semi-auto.



Oh and for the people that say the assault rifle is weak: I just used it to take down the legendary deathclaw. Wasn't even THAT hard, just have to keep it aimed for the face. When the enemy has a face the size of your entire torso, that's not too hard.

12.7mm SMG...Doh! I knew I forgot something important. I was shredding Cazador swarms with that evil beast on my last character. It'll hit 500 DPS with HP rounds. Damn fine late game full-auto weapon.

Does the Heavy/ Incinerator count as an automatic?

I find 10mm SMG very good all-round weapon. Ammo is easy to obtain and with high rate of fire it deals enormous damage to unarmoured opponents. Well suited to fighting Cazadores, Nightstalkers even Nightkins. Only disadvantage is lack of upgrades.

In general I find representation of automatic weapons in game quit accurate. They use less powerful bullets therefore lack armour penetration but made up for it by high rate of fire. Nothing wrong about it. If you moreover use armour piercing bullets, LMG or minigun can be deadly against but heaviest armoured opponents.

Isn't full auto fire and accuracy kinda opposite to each other?

Anyway, making them to powerful also sets up game balance.
FWE made them much more powerful in FO3. As a result being ambushed by a couple of raiders with automatic rifles got annoying as hell.

Accurate to what? Any machinegunner would laugh in your face. The Bren Gun, the German MG42 and MG-3, the US M-60 and M-240, the iconic PK, not only do they fire full size rifle cartridges more powerful than modern assault rifles, they do it on automatic and for long spans of time. Heck you can go even bigger. The Browning M2 machine gun fires the .50 BMG round (already in-game, used by the AMR) at around 500 rounds per minute. The Russian KORD fires a comparable round at even higher rate of fire, and was specifically designed to be man-portable. Bigger? M-242 Bushmaster autocannon, fully automatic 25mm high explosive/armor piercing goodness. Still have pesky super mutant problems? Wheel out your GAU-8, an unholy torrent of 30mm depleted uranium and high explosive projectiles guaranteed to saw anything you point it at in half.

Automatic does not equal "less powerful".



To a degree, but nowhere near as bad as is shown in games. The effective range on a medium machine gun is in the hundreds of meters. Accuracy improves dramatically by using short bursts (3-5 rounds), and steadying the weapon on a bipod or a wall or the edge of your hole, or even your assistant's back. And even firing from the hip ("walking fire") is more accurate in reality than games typically show: sure there's an initial wild spray, but then you can balance the gun on its own recoil. It becomes basically a constant force that you can resist and compensate for. Just watch for the points of impact and adjust aim accordingly. (This works better in real life than it does in games, since in real life people will tend to seek cover in the face of a near-miss while AI has zero self preservation instincts.)

So.

If you're going to argue about game balance as it applies to automatic weapons, please do not confuse game balance with reality. Fully automatic weapons are powerful and accurate.

Any machinegunner stupid enough to try to fire most of weapons you mentioned without support (of bipod or tripod for example) would be blown of from his feet. Most of those weapons can be fired only from static position. Even MG 42 or PK can not be fired from standing position if you want to achieve any efficiency at all. Only Silvester Stallone can fire those weapons from the hip ...But then only with blank cartridges

I actually think the full auto weapons in this game are pretty good.

The 10mm SMG was my "go to" CQC weapon up until I got hold of an LMG. Both the 10mm SMG and LMG are great IMO. The 10mm starts to lose effectiveness in the later game but by then you get the LMG and 12.7mm SMG (which is a beast!)

Can't comment on the other full auto weapons because I haven't really used them. The mini-gun I did use for awhile but takes up too much weight and takes too long to spool up (I use full autos for close medium battles so the time it takes to spool up the mini gun is time the foes have to get closer to me).

Only full auto I have used so far which I would say is a bit redundant is the 9mm SMG. This is only because you find the 10mm so early on though (same for the 9mm and 10mm pistol).

Nah, it has been done. Think it was with M1919s on the Pacific front in WW2.

Bren and BAR could definitely be fired from the shoulder. BAR even had a semi-auto mode just for that. Sadly, it was too light to be a real LMG and too heavy to be a Rifle.

Not sure about other guns. Lewis gun, maybe.

I love the 12.7mm SMG

The whole entire point of automatic weapons is high DPS and low damage... Although I understand what your saying, don't forget there was no "Damage Threshold" in FO3. I don't really think they're that underpowered, try using hand-loaded 5.56 for the LMG.

This

You can fire LMG from hip, my friend have LMG and I saw him doing so at firing range but you can not use it for anything but suppression fire. Also it was 7.62x39 weapon, not full rifle cartridge. LMG is simply too heavy.

Full rifle cartridge is too powerful for automatic fire. Post war rifles like FN Fall or M14 were capable of auto fire but were mostly used as single fire rifles. Recoil forces are too big. I was speaking with man who used FN Fall as soldier. You have to cut cartridge down like Germans did in MP43 during war or Russians in AK-47 post war to get weapon which can be used full auto as its primary mode.

I'm just not even on the same planet with you because I think the guns in this game truly rock. I love the auto carbine, the light machine gun and the 10 mm smg. Single shot guns like Gobi and All American and Maria, and Hunter's Revolver, and all the shotguns.....I could go on and on. I haven't gone to the mini gun yet to test that out but I've never been a minigun kind of person.

Anyway, imo the light machine gun is so awesome that it alone makes auto weapons in this game mucho fun. Oh yes, I forgot the 12.7 smg which is fun but limited because of magazine size.

Well, large caliber automatic weapon (cough 12.7mm SMG cough) is pretty destructive. I guess JE just *forgot* there should be a large caliber automatic rifle.

Err....no, even the original AK-47 have decent accuracy over its 400(?)m effective range in 2-shot burst; added in all the advantages you have mention it is the *MOST* ideal wasteland automatic weapon.

Top it off its receiver is used also for SVD and AKSAW(can't remember what the Russian name them); if I was a gun maker like Gun Runners I would making them instead.

Still, unless Obsidian really want to rip off Red Dead Redemption's name, I don't see any red's weapon return to NV.

YES!

An AK-47 or M-16 (or equivlent) with a lttle thump would have been nice. The assault carbine is a pee-shooter (Assault Carbine + AP Rounds + Deathclaw(s) = Dead You), and the LMG is too heavy for me, I like to be a light as I can, and don't have the strength to handle it.

Chinese Assault Rifle PLEASE! Preforator anyone? C'MON give me a 5.56 bullet eater.

I would be nice to use an assault rifle on a deathclaw and be able to at least cripple the big guys leg with a full barrage of VATS

Also, isn't the LMG a fairly close cousin to a Browning Automatic Rifle, A high capacity, heavy wieght rifle that should be used in the prone position. Not a hip weapon.

LMG is closely modeled after the American M60 machine gun. In 'real' life, it is 7.62X65... a fairly serious cartridge. Being belt fed, you can have as much ammo on it as you can reasonably carry. The 250 round belt is about the limit for walking around, and actually being able to use it though. Mounted, it has a provision to have the ammo box right on the gun, and 700 to 1000 rounds fit nicely in there..... (Do NOT try and walk around with it that way though.... seriously unbalanced.....) It actually is a fairly accurate weapon (IRL...) and is capable of being shoulder fired...... heavy as all get out... (27 pounds, with NO ammo...... in the earlier versions.) but, once you pull the trigger, it gets MUCH lighter. (recoil holds it up, and actually makes it MORE controllable.) I used to chop down trees at 1000 meters with it. Was one of my favorite weapons when I was in the military. (unfortunately, machine gunners life spans in actual combat are generally measured in seconds. Usually single digit at that........)

Always remember, Tracers work BOTH ways.......

Wrong answer, sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M60_machine_gun.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/M249_FN_MINIMI_DA-SC-85-11586_c1.jpg

Which one looks more like the game's LMG? That's right...the M249, which chambers 5.56 in-game and in the real world both.

it actually looks like the [censored] stepchild of both guns. So i guess you are both wrong.

The only automatic weapon I use in New Vegas is the Marksman Carbine as its the easiest to use.