well... I am not seeing what you mean when I test, but that could be because I may not really understand what I am looking for.

Keep in mind that as I said before that you will not always see a stamina "return", you may only be prevented from "losing" more than if you missed and hit only air.

I will watch your video again and see if it looks diffident from my game.

Oh yeah and if you still want you can put the link here for it.

OK, I watched your vid again and it does seem like maybe your not getting a return, but it is hard to tell because your fight is so active and you may be missing as many attacks as you are landing.

BE sure to get the new REV and then try this ONE on ONE with a human opponents and see if that makes a differences.

I am way over 3 hours past my bedtime and I need to get "some sleep". I will check your progress tomorrow.

Sweet dreams.
I'll be sure to try the new REV tonight and post about my experiences.

And my video for those who are interested:
http://youtu.be/2FP1PuHsSgI
It's not really a very good demonstration of the mod's features because it only shows one weapon and is shot in a very dark environment (I play with RCRN pure so that's just how I roll, sorry).
If people like this one, I'll shot and upload some more videos.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL VIDEO MADE BY THE MOD'S AUTHOR.
I'm just a supporter of Duke Patrick's Heavy Weapons Combat mod, this video is shot using REV 3.991 (which is already outdated), and I am also running about 70 mods alongside with it. You've been warned.

Fantastic idea if you can get it to work. But I second the request to have this affect NPC's as well. It would be great to see an NPC drop his shield after I slam him with a 2h weapon due to lack of strength to hold it. As well has my character dropping his weapon because I decided to attacked when I should of waited a little longer.

Definitely got better with the top heavies in 3.995 Spooky! I can't confidently say the issue has been fixed completely because I'm testing at 2:35 am with my eyes half closed and against HARD enemies (the only ones I found in immediate vicinity of my save point), but I'm definitely seeing stamina returns now. I'll have to test some more in order to say if it's now working on every attack that is a hit as it should though, for now my eyes are telling me that some attacks that hit still don't give the stamina returns.
I think you've overnerfed it a bit though haha, if my attack gets me below the threshold now I don't get any stamina back on hit at all even if I started the attack with half of my stamina left. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm too tired to think about whether it's realistic or not. But I'll definitely have to adjust my playstile! And it works correctly according to the description of the change:

All in all, I'm quite happy. Great job on the update, keep 'em coming.

Oh by the way, I wanted to make sure. For the "aadpActorHeadShotAccuracy" variable, it's written that the lower it is, the more accurate and deadly the enemies. Is this correct, lower, not higher? I set it to 2.0 (down from the default of 4.0) but it doesn't feel like I'm getting hit on the head more often.

aadpActorHeadShotAccuracy TIMES NPC stamina = how much is ADDED to the INACCURACY of their attack. (maybe I will rename it to aadpActorHeadShotInaccuracy)

This is not used for the player because the player already vers off the dead center all the time, but NPC are far better at hitting dead center.

However there are other factors not just this setting, they may not "want" to hit your head. This setting only allows them to do so more accurately IF they want to hit your head.
And anyway there is no way for you to dependable test this at this time because the head shots do not always work.

NEW REV 3.996

get it here:

http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/1139-duke-patricks-heavy-weapons-combat/

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3646


NOW with SMOOTHER stamina bar transitions and MUCH better combat pacing!

There is a change to the configuration file for the bow stamina burn, so if you customize this you will need to defiantly do a clean install and then experiment with the setting again.

I think something is very wrong with 3.996 Spooky. I did a clean install, and first thing I notice is fast rest isn't working. Next up I start a fresh character and try attacking with a warhammer, his attacks didn't even cost stamina.
Reverted to 3.995 for now.
Disregard this. Testing, testing. I'll post my experiences as I go on.

• Fast rest speed seems slower than before. Maybe twice as slow. But the effect is much more smooth now, where before stamina came in big chunks, now it comes in small but fast increments, makes resting much more tactical.
  
• Once the fast rest effect kicks in, you can open quick item menu, pausing the game, but stamina will keep regenerating even during the pause.
  
• Blocking seems to take too much stamina. One blocked hit from an ice wolf = empty stamina bar, but simply taking a hit would take maybe 1/10th of my health bar (tested on a character with ~155 armor).
  
• Unrelenting force stamina regen bug is fixed, but now Shouting eats stamina?
  
• Nice effect when your character is hit on the head!
  
• Top-heavy weapons are weird. No stamina returns on my old character, so I start a fresh one, everything works fine for a while, then it breaks in the same manner as on the old character. It's like the script responsible for this functional stops responding or something. This is probably the most annoying bug as it simply makes axes and hammers impossible to use once it happens, the stamina drain is too much.

Highlighted the important ones.

1- as intended, this is good.

2- ouch! That may be hard to avoid as there is almost no way to detect when you are in a menu but I will look into it.

4- I did nothing with shouts (I forgot about that issue) so this is unrelated to the new version. But I will look at it.

5- It is still not what I want exactly but thanks for saying so.


3 and 6 - mmmmm.... I think it is time for drastic action. Follow these steps EXACTLY:


Start a NEW game with NO mods loaded.

Now after the tutorial save.

LOAD THIS MOD BUT ONLY THIS MOD!
DO NOT LOAD ANY OTHER MODS!

Now IF you are still having the same issues after playing for a FULL 60 seconds (about your axe) then save that and email that savegame to me.

This will:

Show me exactly what you are seeing because I will be able to play it on my end.
Prove it is not an install or conflict or save game issue on your end.
Allow me to tweak the mod while testing with YOUR savegame.
Allow me to see what magic and enchanted items you have that may be interfering.

DO you have my privet Email address? (I do not remember if I gave to you or not) If not I will PM you with it.

Spookyfx I really like what your doing with this mod.

Wondering if you can do some stuff with sneak/stealth mode for combat.

Like making the sneak sprint move perk (silent roll) have a chance to dodge incoming damage. Or maybe it slows time by 10% or something for like a second. And could be balanced by adding a stamina cost to it. Sort of like what you did with the crouch-dodge mechanic in regular combat.

And maybe make it so sneak attacks that dont kill the enemy, drain their stamina (knocking the wind out of them)? or stagger them.

And lastly could you try adding Mounted Combat. Being able to fight while on a horse would be an amazing feature, and for some reason it doesnt seem like anyones working on this. Weapon swings, able to use bow.... and possibly even just charging into enemies with the horse, maybe it causes damage when your full sprinting but just nudges them out of the way if youre not.

Thanks, keep up the great work.

1- These sound like really good ideas and are h2h/weapons combat centric enough to be included in my mod, but I will not be able to follow up on them until I get a few other things done firs like fixing the head shots so they work in all areas of the game and not just the positive elevations. Please remind me of this at a latter time.


2- First, there are already several other moders working on this, second I would not do this in my mod until EVERYTHING else is done as I am not nearly as much an expert on mounted combat as I am of "boots on the ground" combat. And finally..... This is moot anyway as Bethesda is going to be doing this in an upcoming DLC (per a little bird).

see here: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1368343-skyrim-needs-mounted-combat/page__view__findpost__p__20661365

In Oblivion you installed a mod, and when you no longer wanted it or for some reason you wanted to get rid of it you simply unchecked the mod, you made an new "clean save" and thus the mod data was gone from the save (more or less)


Per Bethesda this is no longer the case with Skyrim because the data altered by the mod stays with the savegame.

This is Bethesda's official word regarding this issue: "When you play Skyrim with a mod, in most cases, the new data for the mod will be written into any new saved games you create. For example, if you play Skyrim with Mod X and create a save, the next time you load that save, the game will expect Mod X to also be loaded. If you no longer want to play Skyrim with Mod X, it is best to unload Mod X (by unchecking the plugin under Data Files in your Skyrim launcher) and loading a save that does not require Mod X, usually an older save or a backed up save."


If you load a mod with any CK changes or scripts your save game can be haunted forever by scripts and other data from even a deleted mod.

This means three things as far as I am concerned:


1. Do not load mods and make personal "play" savegames unless you know it is a mod you may want forever.

2. If you have any issues that cannot be reproduced by others the only answer may be to start a new game.

3.I believe Moders and Developers may see things in entirely different ways. So Oblivion will almost certainly be the most modable and most modded game in TES history unless the developer starts hiring veteran TES moders (not just professional game designers) to consult with as part of their game development process.

I turned off my stamina script as a test and the shout still ate stamina, so It turns out that SHOUTS are considered by the game as power attacks?

So I cannot change this in my mod. A shot is going to use stamina no matter what. I might be able to give back some stamina immediately after the shout. But that will not be a high priority for me unless it greatly interferes with my combat design.

I will start a new game and test this again however....

I was wrong, it seems to be fixed now, I put a spell event trigger in the stamina script to stop the script if a spell is cast.

Some very good news:

I found a MUCH better way to detect if the actors are attacking with their Left or there Right hand. The method I was using before had a small chance on each attack of detecting incorrectly because of the script lag and one of the actors was using Florentine (dual weapons). The new method runs at the same time as the script that is using the data. This should remove the occasional mis calculation for things such as stamina burn when two weapons are equipped.

Next REV will have DYNAMIC STAMINA BURN for blocking:

Mass = weapon used to attack (including shield for bash) divided by weapon used to block (including shields)
(Top heavy weapons and shields get a bonus)

Strength = Base Health

Force = Mass x Defender Base Stamina x (Attacker Strength divided by Defender Strength) x Attacker's Stamina % * aadpBlockStaminaMul

Then x 3 if it is a Power Attack

Result force is subtracted from stamina for the block.

This works for both the player and all actors.


aadpBlockStaminaMul is a player settable global as I do not think it would hurt my combat pacing even if you adjusted it so that NO stamina was burned for blocking.

I played with your mods in Oblivion and loved them, but I am having some difficulty with this one. I post here only to see if what I am experiencing is at intended or I have some mod issues.

It's the stamina consumption. I find that I can only get in 3 to 5 hits (normal hits, not power hits) at the most before I am completely out of stamina and I avoid blocking because it eats my stamina and that equals not being able to fight. In game I let myself get hit (normally minimal damage taken) rather than block (loss of to much stamina) at not be able to fight. Is this how the game play is meant to be?

sorry double

Done and done Spooky! I've sent you a mail with saves and a couple of video links (.avi files on dropbox, didn't want to upload them to youtube).
Basically I think I've found how to reproduce my stamina bug. Stamina returns work fine if the enemy actor doesn't die when he or she is hit. I think maybe I saw a couple of cases where I didn't regain stamina when hitting a target that didn't die after this hit, but regardless, that doesn't happen nearly as often as this other case. Which is, if the actor you just hit DIES from this hit, you DON'T get any stamina back. I have tested it both on a fresh character without any mods as you requested and on my orc's last save, and it's the same in both cases.

And the reason why I thought I wasn't getting any stamina back at all on my orc. Since I was playing normally, I was usually aiming for my opponent's head with every hit; I also have aadpCritHeadDamMult set to 4 in my game. These two factors combined, assuming that my strikes actually connect (which is a prereq for the stamina returns to work!), result in killing most normal enemies in one hit, and it's mostly these enemies I was fighting when testing 3.996, no dragons or draugr overlords with immense amounts of HP. I tried it now with the information I have by fighting a snow sabercat, which doesn't die even from a headshot, and my stamina was working fine until the killing blow to the cat.


Also, when testing, I noticed another issue with stamina, where sometimes fast rest just doesn't work at all. It also happened on a fresh character with no mods, so not a mod conflict. It doesn't happen often but when it does it is both very noticeable and very annoying (or lethal, you might say, when it happens as you're facing a group of bandits hungry for your blood).


And a suggestion/request, I am not sure it is possible to implement but, with the new smooth stamina of 3.996, is it somehow possible to make fast rest build up incrementally. In example (numbers random): as you move or perform actions, your stamina regen is 0.5 points per .5 second; as you stop moving and attacking, your stamina regeneration rate becomes 1 point per .5 second; once you stand still for 1 second, your stamina regeneration increases to 2 points per .5 second; 2 seconds and your stamina regeneration is upped to 3 points per .5 second; and if you manage to stay still without acting for 3 seconds and more, the full effect of fastest rest kicks in at lets say 5 stamina per .5 second. I think it's both more cool and realistic than what we have now with 2 states of no rest and fast rest (or well, 3 as of late, including the fastest rest), since it makes every second count. In 3.996 I find myself playing a game of chase rather often when trying to distance myself from the opponent to get this precious couple of seconds to regain even a bit of my stamina.
As a rough comparison of my suggestion with what I'm noticing in the game now using the numbers from my example, assuming that fastest rest kicks in after 2 seconds in the current REV: with my example a character who manages to rest for 5 seconds will recover 2+4+6+10+10+10=42 stamina regained, with the current setting, 1+1+10+10+10+10=42. So it'll be the same in the long term but the first couple of seconds will now matter and help the player.

Also I'd like to mention that I noticed no difference in script lag between running with no mods and a lot of mods. Which means great optimization!

Phew, that's all for now, hopefully I was coherent enough, but do ask if something I wrote is unclear.

This is a lot to chew on but let me give you some "quick" feedback for now:

DEAD means the "stamina give back" script stops. So this totally makes sense now. (Great observation on your part!) Either this will have to be a known issue OR I may be able to make a on death event that can solve this. There is a MAGIC EFFECT FINISH event that SHOULD fix this but as in Oblivion (and now in skyrim) the magic effect finish event almost never runs when it is logically suppose to. So now I almost never even try to use it anymore in Tes Mods. But I have not tried the "ON Death" event yet so I will try that.

The Fast Rest was controlled by 2 separate scripts. I suspect that they are not always syncing with each other properly so I changed this so that all the work in done in ONE script. Heedfully this will solve or reduce the issue you are talking about.

Also, because in many areas (the negative elevation areas) Head shots will not work and I have no real idea when a solution to this may come (waiting for SKSE to solve this for me with actor get height commands) I will include a default 120 unit (about 6 foot) actor height in such negative elevation ares so the differences between a good area and a bad area is not so drastic.

Working on REV 4 now. Rev 4 should be out later today or late tonight. It will have the dynamic block stamina burn, the default actor height and hopefuly the On Death solution for the give back stamina issue and the Fast Rest script changes.

I noticed an issue that sometimes when I get hit by a fairly powerful blow, I open inventory to down a health potion, and then die while in inventory. I think it's probably a delay on your damage script, but it's kind of irritating to die when the game is paused.

I tried to think about what I could do about this but I have no idea how it could be solved. If a script is in the process of killing you than just because you went into a menu to drink a health potion is not going to protect you. But this happens to me sometimes even in the vanilla game probably for the same reason (the lag). Similar to how you can get the "Kill Move" death from a dragon even if you have 25% health left.

I am done with REV 4 and I tested it with the clean level 1 savegame Iluf sent me, it works as intended but I had to play for a full 2 minutes before my new scripting seem to kicked in. So please keep that in mind. I had a fight with 3 guards all at once but they only had a 1h sword each and I had a 2h axe. It was fun, not easy but fun. Then a fight with one guard and with a shield and sword. Same thing all worked well, but his shield made him almost as hard to fight as the 3 on 1.

In both cases the fight was over in about 3 minutes real time more or less. A total of about 24 attacks (4 power attacks) from the axe and a lot of footwork. Most of the attacks were blocked, but once I got a clear line of sight to the head or body I could kill in about landed 3 strikes. If they had not been wearing armor I probably could have one shoted them.

REV 4

get it here:

http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/1139-duke-patricks-heavy-weapons-combat/

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3646



NEW Dynamic Stamina Burn For Blocking

Mass = weapon used to attack (including shield for bash) divided by weapon used to block (including shields)
(Top heavy weapons and shields get a bonus)
Strength = Base Health
Force = Mass x Defender Base Stamina x (Attacker Strength divided by Defender Strength) x Attacker's Stamina % x aadpBlockStaminaMul

Then x 3 if it is a Power Attack

Result force is subtracted from stamina for the block.

This works for both the player and all actors.


NOTE: NPC ducking feature has been turned off for this revision. There is a bug in the system (that makes some NPC repeatedly draw their weapons )that I have not been able to fix yet.

Still some issues I do not like, I will work on them this week.

I cannot tell if I broke the endurance feature or not. But I have not been able to get the endurance level to show after throwing a lot of power attacks.

I think that the new method I used to smooth the fast rest stamina regen rate may be sensitive to CPU stress. So that it runs faster in low stress areas and slower in high stress areas. I may need to script some kind of system to look at real time fractions of a second and throttle it by this timer.

Very bad lag snuck into my script for the critical hits. Trying to fix that is my top priority this week.

Greeetings. Great mod. I remeber using the one created for Oblivion and it was almost like playing another game.

Now to Skyrim one:

1.REV4 have really smooth and good stamina regen.
Problem: you can't make attacks even weak simple attacks then your stamina low - so you can't see an endurance feature working without fighting and blocking. (Still need to try and see will it work or not)

EDIT: Yeah seems like Endurance feature is broken. In a fight against 4 bandits i blocked for almost half a minute and didn't get penalty to maximum stamina after that.

2. Damage.
Purely estetic problem that you can't get kill moves cause enemies are dying as a result of script. But you can have a wonderful moments then you kill someone and before he drops on the ground he is still able to kill you - really fun.

Is it possible to have a separate setting in aadpCombat which will change the base weapon damage ? So that you have one seeting with locational damage and one in which you can change basic damage that is shown in the inventory.

3. Strength
Thats the problem of Bethesda gamedesign. Mobs have enormous health bars. Draugr of 21 level has 700 HP and around 300 stamina ! Thats like fighting a tank. So you can't balance strength feature around player without changing mobs health.

It's good then Dragon or Giant can stagger and beat you. But then some bandit has 500 HP it's not so fun.

Is this right? I guess that explains why I have not really seen many (any?) kill moves even when using The Dance of Death mod.