Perhaps your right. However, I truly believe that Fallout has one of the most unpleaseable fanbases of all.
Well, perhaps Kingdom Hearts has it worse.

You must not visit MMO boards....

You haven't been to the L4D steam forums have you?
If they were to migrate here it would be christmas every day for mods since they'd be handing out flamebait and flame warnings left and right.

US93/US95 is an odd stretch.
From the Hoover Dam to Boulder City isn't so bad. Boulder City to Henderson is meh. Henderson to Vegas takes no time at all. But Vegas north past Nellis heading towards Tonopah? That is the epitome of a really boring drive.

I never, ever, want to drive over the Hoover Dam again. Did it twice with a big uHaul down those curved roads and up again. Never again.

No, I did explain. Read my posts again.

[quote name='powermapler' date='24 October 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1287966170' post='16556994']
It feels like there is very little hand placed loot[/quote]

Is that loot just for your hands? like unarmed combat?

[/quote]
and it's lacking in Fallout 3's finer details. Quests are empty, rewards are bland, NPC's have plenty of dialogue but most of it leads to nothing, making it feel like the developers cut out quests.[/quote]

Rewards are bland? well what the hell do you want? a fat man? And got to new vegas and got around 10 quests with 5-7 actully doing important stuff so i dunno how many quests you want.

[quote name='powermapler' date='24 October 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1287978424' post='16558410']

But all this uniqueness only brings out the problems in the game. I'm wandering in the middle of nowhere. Supplies are running low and I'm almost dead. I see a house on an outcropping of rocks. Making my way over there, I'm greeted by a man with an extensive backstory and many conversation directions. But this is where it ends. [/quote]

[/quote]That's great that Obsidian has put more "lore" in the game. But if someone's rambling on for 10 minutes about a convoluted string of events, I half expect a quest to come out of it. But it almost never does. Maybe I've just been spoiled, and I realize that not everyone will have something that needs doing. But, to me, this adds to the emptiness of the game.[/quote]

There are mini quests so you may not know wether there is something wants doing, you would have to check your notes list if you have any. but sometimes people just dont need anything

[/quote]
One of my favorite things to do in Fallout 3 was to explore all the little nooks and crannies. There would always be something, whether it be a note, a body and gun positioned strategically to show a struggle of some sort, or some Naughty Nightwear with an unmarked quest associated with it. There's very little of this in NV. There's an overabundance of real side missions, but almost no little details that really add to the atmosphere and encourage exploring.
[/quote]

I thought there were more if anything? I didnt find a single mini quest in fallout 3 as i never knew wether there was one or not, in new vegas is much more clear that someone wants something done yet it doesnt appear in your major quests


I sorta see what your saying but I hope they can add more stuff in a DLC

This topic has been very interesting for me.

There are obviously two opposite opinions on the subject, and I can definitely see where you're coming from.


By hand placed loot I mean the devs actually thought about what they were doing, and cut back on the randomized containers. Yes, you'll find a 9mm pistol and some rounds on a shelf. That's great. But there's just less hand placed items, IMO.

No, I don't want a [censored] Fatman. But 150 caps isn't exactly much incentive for most of these quests. In Fallout 3, there were a lot more "unique" rewards. A gun, armor, even supplies. NV is just a few caps.

Unless one gambles or go on Weapon Runs at Black Mountain it can be very good with a few caps.
Certainly was the first 15 hours for me.

I thought that at first, but now that I have done some extensive exploration, I have changed my mind.

There is tons of awesome [censored] to do out there in the Wastes. TONS.

Hell, I've got 35 hours under my belt, and I'm still finding tons of new quests to do. I've got about 10 active quests atm, too.

I have found that the loot around the Wastes to be a bit less than FO3, and I'm actually kind of disappointed with the unique weapons.

Not quite what I was getting at. Maybe in my mega-p/offed state I didn't explain well enough. In FO3 there was a reason those things existed and they either had a quest purpose (even if often dumb) in many cases, or had a relevance to the overall "feel" and background. What I meant was these sorts of "trivia" are derivative, lifts from FO3, and not original to NV. What? They can't create their own trivia? I suspect it was just an easy way to fill out the wasteland without inovative effort.
Am I trying to find something bad? Nope...something good. Like someone said above - (and I said elsewhere) - I am not in any way "involved" with any of these factions or people. I don't even "know" who I am, inside the game. I am only totally indifferent to all The Strip gangs...couldn't care less what happens to them and I see no point in that entire misdirection.What is my purpose? What goals? Why would I bother in any 'real world' like NV? Answer is, I wouldn't and I think that is Obsidians greatest failing.

This game really is the wasteland; a wasteland of missed opportunity and enhanced enjoyment. Pretty damn poor, all round. I'm going off to find a better game.

But it does! Well, not Girdershade Super Mutant Safaris in beutiful donwtown DC is my favorite passtime in Fallout 3, the ruins and caves with unique items in them (or not) were a joy to fight trough. Killing a thousand ferals with MMM's increased spawns and 5x feral ghoul rampage to get the Burnmaster was quite an experience :ahhh: Robot filled buildings such as the National Guard Depot with those [censored] Sentry Bots everywhere are murder.

Those are exactly the reasons that have kept me playing Fallout 3 pretty much ever since it was released (excluding the time i've spent playing Oblivion ). It is a shame if that aspect has been lost in NV, even if the quests and storyline are greatest ever with multiple branches, i don't see it having as much replay value for me. I'll play the game and find out, if my copy ever arrives :swear:

I haven't been rushing and I feel the same. It's still in a nuclear fallout setting but fallout 3 should have took the burden of being a genuine wasteland, which it does well. I Figured FNV was going to have the same setting but was going to be much more fleshed out. And it is to be honest with all the factions and there definitely feels like there's much more going on around you, but not to the extent that I was hoping for.

Also when you get to the vegas strip its actually rather small, and why it it instanced? I mean its instanced in 3 parts and each of those parts is relatively small. Maybe its some sort of territorial//faction blockades but I didn't get that perspective at all. Didn't seem like the blocks were territorial at all. One thing is certain, the vegas stip is small and the instances make it feel even tinier.

If they bordered the entire vegas area, the doctors, gun runners, all of that and made it all one big instance with more lights here and there it would have been a lot better in my opinion.

I mean that's what I thought it was going to be when I watched the trailer but meh its a cheap version of what the trailer represents.

I like the long open spaces...if the game didnt have them then the setting of 'desert' wouldnt really work would it? and then we'd have people complaining about why there isnt any open empty deserty areas in a game set in a desert.

I think its a mistake ot force the player into the emptiest area of the map at the start of the game.....but other then that I dont mind it. The stuff you do find is most often hand placed and random loot is only filler until you reach the main goal of a building/area/quest.

If you take the time to do some reading, there is so much infomation and backstory that you really learn the reasons for why things happen, why that person wants the quest done etc. you never got that in fo3 much....and its an RPG element that action player dont get, but RPGers really love.

The Girdershade houses are in the NV GECK as resources, still in there as cells with the original Fallout 3 names (Ronald Lauren's House, etc.).

I haven't gone looking through the NPC list yet... maybe the pair of them moved west.

I completely agree with OP, and I must say I've been exploring for about 30 hours now ( also doing main quest which is now completed and doing ALOT of side missions) and I'm almost done with this game. I mean what THE HELL!?? I'm level 28 now so almost at the level cap, this still bothers me but it was the same in fallout 3 (that you would reach you level cap WAY before you were done with the game). However, I've just about explored everything, I've discovered a hundred locations out of the 125 in the game (and been through all of them) I have found 8 special weapons already. And I have completed a ton of quest for various factions and talked to alot of people. But it only took me 30 hours. I'm guessing another 10 hours and I'll have just about anything explored.

The reason I'm so surprised about this all is because I have played fallout 3 for about 300 hours (I've also lost my very first character but I'm not sure how much I played with him), on multiple characters naturally but I could spend atleast a hundred 100 (if not 150) in one single character. But in new vegas I'm just about done after 40 - 45 and I'm not really looking forward to starting over again. People say that fallout 3 was empty but I couldn't disagree more. Sure fallout new vegas is FILLED with locations, but half of them are [censored] ones (abandoned shack anyone?) and you can run through them in a few minutes if not seconds. What I miss is DC, I've spent countless hours exploring that city but in new vegas there's nothing like that. And everywhere you look there's people! I like the concept of all the factions but they have focused to much on it, I don't want to find those bloody ncr at every twist and turn. I want these gritty ruins/underground tunnels to explore every once in a while, however in new vegas there's nothing like that to be found.

There's seriously a location which is searchlight airport (or something like that) and when I found it I was really excited for something big to explore. Guess what I can't enter a SINGLE building, it really feels to me like obsidian just put all their effort into the factions and then filled the rest of the world up with these [censored] locations. And then they put all these big mountains in, which could have been filled with tons of interesting stuff instead there's the rare cave that takes 10 seconds to search through and a MAZE OF FRIGGING INVISIBLE BARRIERS [censored] EVERYWHERE!!!! The world builders have done an unbelievable slack job if you ask me. I mean fallout 3 had some [censored] locations aswell but it was SOME and it also had DC to make up for it.

The next thing I'm particularly dissapointed about is jacobstown. I love the new super mutants over the "old" ones (referring to fallout 3) in every single way. I talked to everyone in jacobstown and did every quest. How many people did I talk to? 3.... How many quests did I do? 2.... How long did it take me to do it? an hour..... I'm so dissapointed that this wasn't fleshed out at all, they could've done so much more with this all this potential wasted. I would've liked to see much more quests and mutants to talk to. And this is not only the case in jacobstown it's the case in much more locations.

The very last thing I wanted to address is the sunset sarsaparilla factory as an example. In fallout 3 the nuka cola factory was filled with awesome and unique stuff! Nukalurks and a bunch of backgroundstory and history. In new vegas the sunset sarsaparilla factory was bland, had barely any backgroundstory and had a very hard locked door with literally nothing behind it except for some 10mm rounds. I take the sunset sarsaparilla factory as an example here because this is the case throughout the whole of fallout new vegas, in fallout 3 a big reason for me to go exploring was to find this unique stuff like nukalurks. In new vegas there doesn't seem to be any at least not in the 100 out of 125 locations I've discovered. Another example is a crashed vertibird somewhere in the wasteland with a prototype tesla cannons next to it (spoiler? well it's too late now) There was absolutely NO information about this whatsoever, just the cannon, the vertibird and some skeletons. I was spyched at finding the cannon but rather dissapointed afterwards. I am quite dissapointed in fallout new vegas, it seems bland, unfinished and empty (not story wise though).

I'm enjoying the game, I must say, but I do find myself asking "why am I doing this?" rather a lot. Not as the player, but as my character. Sure, I the player want to see the rocket factory, but why does my character want to go there?

"Anything to do around here?" "Oh yeah, you could risk instant death for me by checking out that old plant."

I never felt that with Fallout 3. Still, I'm only 16 hours in so things might improve.

I'm in agreement with the OP. There doesn't seem to be the same attention to detail in the world-building there was in FO3, where most every location had some little story to be teased out of it, if only by the placement of bodies/items if nothing else. There seem to be far fewer terminals and audio diaries scattered about (the obviously lower budget may explain the latter), and I've yet to find one dialogue exchange between NPCs of the kind you'd get in Megaton or Rivet City (e.g. Confessor Cromwell proselytizing in the Muddy Rudder, Nova trying and failing to get a raise out of Moriarty). In FO3 I'd often just sit around to soak up the atmosphere of a location, but in NV there seems to be less atmosphere to soak up.

I played 15-20 hours now and indeed sometimes you can walk for a long, long time without ever confronting an enemy. In FO3 the world felt more filled with stuff. Hmmz.

I know, right? It's totally counterintuitive that a bunch of gamers who spend their time playing a game that has you rummaging through trash and blowing off peoples' heads with shotguns in a dog-eat-dog nuclear apocalypse could be so ornery.

Nice post by the way!

I'm fairly sure that the broken NPC conversations is a bug... at least I hope it is (I haven't gone GECK digging yet).

Yes, I completely agree with you OP. I spent over 300 hours over the course of 8 months playing Fallout 3. I'm 30 hours into New Vegas, have explored 80% of the wasteland, and can say for certain that once I finish everything in a few dozen hours or so, I will have absolutely no urge to replay it again. It's just not the same.

I find it funny how people assume that more map markers means more content. That's not it at all. I'd say a good 40-50% of the map markers are marking either a location that has no interior, a location that is outside and is basically marking an area where enemies are, or a building that's incredibly small. It's very misleading. I can't tell you how many times I've walked past a gas station, or a boarded up building, or an abandoned farm, or a hole in the ground, or a spawn point for a bunch of enemies, and was shocked to see a map marker appear for it. It's ridiculous and sadly Obsidian is succeeding in fooling the majority of members here into thinking all these map markers are actually marking something interesting, when a lot of them don't. This is especially true when people take the Explorer perk and never actually explore the new locations.

Obsidian improved on almost everything from Fallout 3. Nearly everything is better. But they failed at making the kind of world that Bethesda made, the kind of world that someone would enjoy spending hundreds of hours exploring. The world they made is standard and mostly boring, and because of this the only thing New Vegas has going for it in terms of replayability is siding with different factions thanks to the improved RPG elements, but that's not nearly as fun as exploring an awesome world.

I've just finished the main quest on 40 hours. Overall, I feel New Vegas is a very good game, and as a physical game, its better than Fallout 3. More weapons, enemies, towns etc and a more engaging main questline. However, in terms of atmosphere and the way it made me feel while playing it, its not as good as Fallout 3. I've finished the main quest and I don't really feel to carry on with this character. I've got a few side quests left to do, and another 8 levels to go, but it feels more like an effort to want to get there, rather than me naturally wanting to progress.. The characters are less interesting, theres too much dialogue leading nowhere and its difficult to get attached to any single character. Even the dog, Rex, I find to be more of an annoyance than anything. He just blocks up doorways when I'm trying to get out. Dogmeat felt like MY dog. Factions, pretty much the same thing. I didn't get particularly attached to either the NCR or Caesar's Legion. I got more attached to the minor factions like the BoS, Great Khans and the Boomers. Still, no single characters really stood out from any of these factions. And I couldn't dramatically change them in any way. Brotherhood, only faction-altering event was that instead McNamara sitting slouched in the Elder's chair, it was Hardin. Did he ever lift that lockdown? Lack of places to explore and lack of interesting loot is another major gripe. By the end of the game, the only really good weapon I had available was the Gauss Rifle. It was the only thing that felt like it could actually do the job. I know that better guns are available, like the Anti-Material Rifle, but these are so hard to come by, and so hard to maintain, they're more of a luxury than a gun you can reliably depend on. By level 15, I should have a good weapon set up, plenty of ammo and a decent amount of caps. If I'm not finding interesting loot and unique weapons, with enemies to kill, I can't have these things. I know some people like to throw statistics around about number of locations and such, but New Vegas is definitely more empty than Fallout 3. It is a great game though, and Im sure I'll be playing it for a while longer, though I just don't see myself putting in the 500 hours I put into Fallout 3.

Really?

"Hey there, you! Can you absorb a lethal amount of radiation and throw yourself off the ramps in Megaton to break your legs so I can observe the effects?"

I've found most of the world to be as good, or better than FO3.

The strip, and specifically the inside of the casinos, is a [b][huge[b] dismantlement though.