Yeah, if you fast travel, you can miss Shavari.

That's odd, as I didn't FT on my first play-through, I did on my second which is why I restarted as it kinda ruined it. I did this questline on my first alt, now I am confused. I take it she doesn't spawn in Riften until this quest is activated?

Stormcloaks don't hate elves, nor are they racist.

But a Dunmer siding with them is a little odd. You could say that they'd be less of a threat to Morrowind. Or you might be really anti-corruption, anti-colonial, or anti-Imperial.

Some are, it's just there are ignorant and that ignorance turns into racism.

You'll find those types of people on both sides.


Correct.

Absolutely, but the Stormcloaks and supporters of Ulfric are more vocal about their beliefs than others.

I have killed her 4 out of 5 Chars. Except this one ??

Correction! Stormcloaks hate High Elves. So would you if you where screwed over by the Dunmer.

Further correction

Stormcloaks hate Thalmor. If the stormcloaks hated altmer, Niranye, Arivanya, Nurelion, and Ulundil would not be doing great in Windhelm.

It's worth pointing out that both Niranye and Nurelion have both recently arrived from Summerset Isle. they are Thalmor, as far as immigrant authorities are concerned. Yet they're also among the richest residents in Windhelm.

Nurelion is an okay point, though it may have something to do with him being a famous alchemist. Ulundil and Arivanya are good examples, but they don't seem that well-off as stable-hands. Niranye is not though,

Her connections wouldn't matter if there was systemic racism against High Elves, though, as it's not the Summerset Shadows who decide who can and cannot trade and purchase property within the city. It's Ulfric and Jorleif. If they had a problem with her, she'd be out, and no band of thieves would protect her.

A Dunmer (Dark Elf is just the name they foist on us!!) would join whoever he or she felt like joining.

The Dunmer in general aren't exactly a loyal and cohesive lot. They worship Mephala, the goddess of backstabbing and screwing with your fellow man; Azura, the goddess of manipulating your fellow man through superior knowledge; and Boethiah, the goddess of plotting a revolution and then violently disemboweling your fellow man. They aren't quite as insidious as the Bretons, but mostly because they don't feel like wasting time on intrigue when you can solve things with a strategically inserted dagger. They started out as constantly warring tribals, got a little more civilized under the rule of the Tribunal, but continued their squabbles nevertheless, now at the level of Great Houses. Now Morrowind is pretty much gone, Great Houses are gone, the Tribunal is gone. It's every mer for himself.

As far as the game's time period is concerned, you being Dovahkiin overrules everything. Once the threat is gone though... who's to say you won't be taken out back and shot?

I wouldn't say they've instituted systematic racism per se, more like neglect other races and their treatment by private citizens, though this is partly due to the war. The private discrimination is seen through people like Rolf and his buddy and the dock owner. The public discrimination is the segregation of Dunmer and Argonians and their lack of protection from bandit raids.

Now Niranye can more than afford her home through her wealth and isn't troubled by any racism because of her connections. They'd wind up dead if they crossed her, so she has no need to be concerned with the problems the Dunmer or Argonians face. The lack of protection from bandits wouldn't trouble her either as she's got her own criminal connections.

OT: Join whichever faction or like or neither faction, there isn't a right or wrong answer. Just Romans or Vikings.

I concede that in all honesty Ulfric wouldn't solve this problem even if there wasn't a war. He's not an interventionist ruler.


A thoroughly sensible move, in my opinion.


The Stormcloaks don't do anything about a string of murders of high-ranking Nord women, either, or the capture of Fort Amol. Their lack of protection from bandit raids is more to do with the war, or Jorleif's ineptitude, than it is with deliberate policy.


She is questioned about her connections by Captain Lonely-Gale, and nothing happens to him.

And if they crossed Nurelion? What shady organization is he using? He can barely fight as it is. You brought up that it's likely because he's a famous alchemist. That's exactly it. He provides a service to the city. People that provide a service to the city tend to be looked upon better.

And the one thing I am now sure of, is how very little I knew about the different classes and thier political, and religious struggles. WOW~ !!!!

Agreed. Ulfric's a military man. He's not concerned with domestic disputes. It seems like he's left any issues with the running of the city completely to Jorleif. I don't see that changing after the war as he'll start focusing on campaigns into the dominion instead.

Might be, these are more traditionalist Dunmer than in Riften so there could be the threat of violence between the groups. Yet we only see one Dunmer exhibiting racism towards the Argonians to my knowledge and not much about the Dunmer in the Grey Quarter from the Argonians which I find weird. Might be just another Bethesda oversight, but if there was animosity between Argonians and Dunmer you'd think it'd be shown by more than just one Dunmer.

Could be, not sure why nothing has been done about some of these issues before the civil war began though. The Dunmer and Argonians have been in Windhelm a long time now.

I haven't seen this conversation myself but he's not harassing her besides questioning her associations is he? He'd probably be okay as long as he didn't pursue it or screw with her somehow. Or maybe he'll soon be sleeping with the Slaughterfishes for asking too many questions

Yep, his utility helps him out. It's like if there's just one doctor in a town you don't mess with him because you'll be screwed if something happens and you need his help.

At least one NPC in Windhelm complains, from the "if your not with us, you're against us" perspective, about the Dunmer not supporting the Stormcloak rebellion. So that guy would in theory have no problem with a Dunmer signing up with the Stormcloaks.

I assume that if Ulfric and his Stormcloaks truly hated Dunmer, as opposed to feeling Nords were superior to Dunmer (and everyone else) there'd be none left living in Windhelm