Flames effectiveness... : V

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:07 am

So I started am archer with one handed and destruction on switch and was wondering if flames and the fire damage perks will be enough to be usefull later on in the game. If I get rushed or suprised just break out my sword, hit them with flames as they run up and work them with my sword and the periodic burst of flames. I'm not using smithing or enchanting and don't want to waste perk points in the destruction tree...if flames can be a good secondary damage then I'd be happy...

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:10 am

Don't use flames because then you'll need to spend a lot on magicka, and then you might as well make a mage. Even with a large magicka pool, basic flame attacks are pretty much useless.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:40 am

Without destruction perks, no. But with perks, then spells can be a good support choice for a build like that.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:45 am

hit them with flames as they run up and work them with my sword and the periodic burst of flames.

And if you're going to use Flames, that's the way to do it. Casting it continually (i.e. holding the RMB down) doesn't do as much damage as a succession of quick bursts. Each burst counts as a separate cast, so you get the extra damage (1 point/sec for 6 secs, IIRC) with each burst - and it stacks with itself.

Eloise

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:11 am

Don't use flames because then you'll need to spend a lot on magicka, and then you might as well make a mage. Even with a large magicka pool, basic flame attacks are pretty much useless.

the only use is basically lighting oil on fire

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Don't use flames because then you'll need to spend a lot on magicka, and then you might as well make a mage. Even with a large magicka pool, basic flame attacks are pretty much useless.

the only use is basically lighting oil on fire

Rubbish.
I have to disagree. Niamh uses flames all the time and they are extremely effective and extremely useful. I dunno what flames you're using but they don't sound like the same ones...!

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:52 am

With the fire damage perks and the one perk from the illusion tree, use flames in short but fast bursts. This will stack the effect of the dam/sec and can be incredibly useful even late game. The UESP page could probably explain it better.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:42 pm

Or, avoid Destruction all together and get one of the Flame spewing staffs. I have never found a need to work on Destruction Skills once I started carrying around a couple of Elemental Damage staffs.

With a One Handed Blade, you can even Dual Wield with a Staff

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:44 pm

Or, avoid Destruction all together and get one of the Flame spewing staffs. I have never found a need to work on Destruction Skills once I started carrying around a couple of Elemental Damage staffs.

With a One Handed Blade, you can even Dual Wield with a Staff

This.

Spoiler

I found a staff on a certain dragon priest that is pretty powerful.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:52 am

Don't use flames because then you'll need to spend a lot on magicka, and then you might as well make a mage. Even with a large magicka pool, basic flame attacks are pretty much useless.

uh no... you can stun with duel cast... i can stop a troll in its place and put a dragon down in 2 tries...

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:57 am

Or, avoid Destruction all together and get one of the Flame spewing staffs. I have never found a need to work on Destruction Skills once I started carrying around a couple of Elemental Damage staffs.

With a One Handed Blade, you can even Dual Wield with a Staff

but staves charge rate depend on your skill with that type of magic.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:09 pm

Or, avoid Destruction all together and get one of the Flame spewing staffs. I have never found a need to work on Destruction Skills once I started carrying around a couple of Elemental Damage staffs.

With a One Handed Blade, you can even Dual Wield with a Staff

I was thinking about this as well, does using staves increase destruction? I read the wiki article and think I'm gonna stick with flames with the damage perks, but was thinking of the occasion dual staff blasting for some fun!

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:12 am

With 2/2 Augmented Flames and the Aspect of Terror perks, Flames can do up to 22 damage per second that it is channeled, making it the most magicka-damage ratio efficient spell in the game.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:21 am

I was thinking about this as well, does using staves increase destruction? I read the wiki article and think I'm gonna stick with flames with the damage perks, but was thinking of the occasion dual staff blasting for some fun!

lighting is better... around 10% they turn into a pile of ashes, fire they run, ice they freeze for about a sec.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:12 am

but staves charge rate depend on your skill with that type of magic.

Isn't it more like "magicka reduction for that skill affects the charge rate?"

So, just put a magicka reduction enchantment in your boots or something

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:21 pm

With 2/2 Augmented Flames and the Aspect of Terror perks, Flames can do up to 22 damage per second that it is channeled, making it the most magicka-damage ratio efficient spell in the game.

This is true but even without any augments, flame with AoT gives 18 damage per sec. Even with no destruction perks this is decent damage.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:04 am

uh no... you can stun with duel cast... i can stop a troll in its place and put a dragon down in 2 tries...

Impact perk doesn't work with flames, you are better off not taking dual casting at all if this is the only spell you want.

Isn't it more like "magicka reduction for that skill affects the charge rate?"

So, just put a magicka reduction enchantment in your boots or something

No, it's skill for staves. You aren't using your own magicka, so cost reduction doesn't apply. You get more charges the higher your destruction skill.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:48 am

I was thinking about this as well, does using staves increase destruction? I read the wiki article and think I'm gonna stick with flames with the damage perks, but was thinking of the occasion dual staff blasting for some fun!

YES dual staffs are awesome but like someone said be careful if trying to build destruction...

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:23 am

Impact perk doesn't work with flames, you are better off not taking dual casting at all if this is the only spell you want.

No, it's skill for staves. You aren't using your own magicka, so cost reduction doesn't apply. You get more charges the higher your destruction skill.

diffrent strokes for diffrent folks... Am i talking to an one way mind???

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:29 am

diffrent strokes for diffrent folks... Am i talking to an one way mind???

The OP wanted to know if the flames spell was viable later in the game. If that is the only spell he wants to use, impact doesn't work, and equipping the spell to two hands without the dual casting perk is more efficient than if you take the perk, in which case you dual cast at +40% magicka cost, to get only +10% damage. If you take firebolt, which the OP didn't mention, then taking dual casting to get impact is worth it, as the stun lock can then be applied.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:09 am

The one good thing Flames is always good against at all levels is... what are those flying ice-snake things... Ice Wraiths! Yes, that's it. At least that's my perception. It seems like they really hate getting close to you when casting the spell. You also don't have to aim at them precisely as you would with a firebolt/missile type of spell. You can just cast in their direction and cause damage.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:32 am

So I started am archer with one handed and destruction on switch and was wondering if flames and the fire damage perks will be enough to be usefull later on in the game. If I get rushed or suprised just break out my sword, hit them with flames as they run up and work them with my sword and the periodic burst of flames. I'm not using smithing or enchanting and don't want to waste perk points in the destruction tree...if flames can be a good secondary damage then I'd be happy...

No, flames is rather rubbish after you reach Riverwood. It'll never increase in damage with your planned build, so you'd be much better off charging a power attack with your 1-hander as the enemies close in.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:25 am

Niamh is currently level 30+ and uses flames all the time and very effectively too.
Enemies run away, cower in corners, scream about how it burns them, it's awesome.
Using an axe AND having a built-in flamethrower, you can't go wrong.

I seriously don't understand why you think it's rubbish.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:07 am

lighting is better... around 10% they turn into a pile of ashes, fire they run, ice they freeze for about a sec.

Only if the OP takes the perk. And for me, Flames just looks cooler. :biggrin:

This is true but even without any augments, flame with AoT gives 18 damage per sec. Even with no destruction perks this is decent damage.

Unfortunately you need 50 in Illusion to get this perk which doesn't sound like the route the OP is going, but it is nice that this "glitch" makes the spell more viable later in the game than just the destruction perks.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:48 pm

I was thinking about this as well, does using staves increase destruction?

Yes, or certainly did the last time I was spamming stave attacks.