I'm absolutely stumped by the main quest when it comes to meeting Esbern. You essentialy have to adopt an "evil" persona at this point. The quest forces you to wrongfully plant incriminating evidence on an innocent man. I simply can't figure a way around this. Above all bugs, this intentional flaw in the game breaks it for me. I've played an evil character... it's fun... it's TOO rewarding. But there's no good way to progress through this game stopper.

I'm on PC, so I guess I can console it, but there has to be a good solution to this quest. I can't believe the game designers were this lax in their story. Am I missing something?

Wait what?

Um. You don't have to talk to Brynjolf. You just go into the Ratway, make your way to the Ragged Flagon, and talk to whateverhisnameis.... the barkeep? He'll point you toward Esbern.

The fact that Delphine herself told you rather precisely where to find Esbern so that you don't even need to ask the Thief's Guild members where to find him. The fact you didn't try to ask other people in Riften if they knew where he was (try the inns) or that you didn't even try to go directly for him. You can also persuade the Thief's Guild guys to give you the info from the start.

Talk to the bartender at The Bee and Barb.

You're missing the Stormcloaks. You turn on a guy and a housecarl who helped you slay a dragon and named you Thane afterwards with housing privileges. You have no option of saving Whiterun, and end up becoming a traitor to people you sympathize with; and once you get feedback post-raid you are told that business actually suffered as the awful racist Nord supremacist crap forced as a Stormcloak means only Nords receive business.

Despite having a dialogue option "Skyrim isn't just for the Nords" validated by Galmar Stonefist, Ulfric's most racist lieutenant, somehow my Dunmer feels like a Benedict Arnold by betraying Whiterun friends and putting in power a group of people who failed to appreciate that this "filthy elf" made their rebellion successful. Under the pretense that it meant freedom to pursuit happiness and religious practice, but it was perverted toward spiteful "Go Nord or go home!" [censored].

Couldn't they have made the Stormcloaks less xenophobic? They could at least have the racist faction be a minority in the ranks, instead of receiving tacit approval from a guy I thought operated on principle but clearly was just jockeying for High King position and not the actual good of Skyrim's denizens. Ulfric said he wanted to enable the jarls their right to rule, yet sees fit to place troops to supervise the jarls, and the Moot is revealed to be clearly rigged as lfric has no intention of allowing Elsif a fair chance at claiming her right to the throne.

I guess I'll try other things. The fact that the quest arrow is pointing at the guy and telling me to go with his plan is kind of distracting.

You just say no to Brynjolf, and then his quest arrow goes away. Others in Riften will point you to the Ratway.

Lucrece.... did you mean to post that in another thread? Makes little sense in this one, bud....

Yeah, you know when the good guys win, the jarls have elves and Argonians in their household, but when the bad guys win those same holds only have Nords in the keep. It's pretty racist.

Oh wait, that was the Stormcloak ending.

It's completely relevant. The OP griped about the inability to have a noble character. And supposedly the Stormcloaks pretended to be a noble effort. And midway, after the point of no return, you come to find out these guys are pretty damn irredeemable unless you're roleplaying a racist Nord character, because otherwise you're just an Uncle Tom who doesn't get touched for conveniency's sake but empowers a faction that becomes ever more transparent about marginalizing the player's own people as said faction grows more victorious and confident.

Ah.... okay.... Actually, he was complaining about having to do something for the thieves' guild in order to find Esbern.... which isn't the case really. I just read your post and thought it fit with one of the other posts better! Sorry!

No need to apologize. It's how you interpreted it and I merely offered a clarification -- you shouldn't have to apologize for how a post comes off to you.

find the ragged flagon and talk to the barkeep then ask him about Esbern.

I found myself in the same position as shagsbeard - I felt bad having seen the guy go to jail but oh well.. not going back to do it again differently.. But now, how the hell do I get out of the rat way! Damn it's so confusing!

Turn off the quest arrow! Your journal is not the boss of you! LOL So, yea, head down into the Ratway, talk to the bartender at the Bee and Barb, so you know where the Ratways are, then enter the Ragged Flagon and talk to the Bartender there, or just use the door behind the bartender (to the right), which leads into the Ratway Warrants.

Plus, there are plenty of these type of threads around, how a "Good" person doesn't want to work for Brynjolf, only to advance the MQ...




Uhm, use your local map maybe?

the map doesn't help you navigate passages in a tunnel system... it shows you the direction but you can't walk through walls last I knew..

I got it anyways, there was a level I found that opened up a bridge like thing.

You don't even have to do that. You can ignore the barkeep and just go into the ratway and search and destroy till you come to Esbern. That is what I did. I think that is there so that you will get a taste of the thieves guild in case you are interested. No problem.

Oh if you don't want to throw away the thieves guild and still don't want to incriminate brand shei. Steal the ring, and drop it. Then talk to Brynjolf. He'll invite you to the flagon anyways.

It's called gray-and-gray morality.

What, only the imperials are supposed to be shady and morally questionable? Why do you want to whitewash the stormcloaks?

Speaking of Imperials and Stormcloaks.. do you HAVE to pick a side in this game? I really don't know the politics between the two within the game so I am unsure of which of who to side with

You can ignore it completely for the most part. If you haven't finished the Civil War questline, it will result in an extra quest during the MQ to negotiate a temporary truce (so that you can complete a different objective), but that's about it.

I commend anyone who manages to actually make a good character in this game. I don't even try.

All my girls are good. Mostly NG, but definitely good. No TG. They kill Grelod because she's evil, so murdering her IS good (not to mention that it doesn't show up as a murder in Crime Stats....) and then they go on to wipe out the DB. They don't kill anyone who doesn't attack them first (though I must admit they take a great amount of pleasure in baiting Thalmor so the Thalmor are the attackers.... heh....) They don't rob citizens, merchants, nobles, or Jarls. They kill bandits wherever they encounter them.

I haven't had any issues really.

No robbing citizens and only acting in self-defense?

No TG... i.e. The most redeeming questline of them all?

Sounds like a pain to me