So..no thoughts on what I said about EN? Why shouldn't somebody make a char with this mod with 1 EN and spend the points elsewhere?

The HP rebalance is the only reason why I don't use this. I started my character with 8 EN. This is a huge disadvantage for me.

I feel that the relative desirability of endurance remains competitive with other stats.

A: I love the mod, both parts for different reasons, and think you're doing an excellent job so far, but B: the health formula should be changed up because of the difficulty in combat differences. More things can one-shot you with the current formula than should. I know it seems a massive difference, but maybe 100 base + EN x 20 or even 15? EN x 10 would work with 150 base, I think, but EN x 5 sets the usefulness of Endurance too low and makes the max HP too low AND too close to the minimum.

If the damage was vanilla, that would make sense. But the difference between 155 and 200 HP, the high and low, is completely meaningless in gameplay where the damage is raised on all weapons.

It's not competitive if the choice is between 45 HP or 9% critical chance, or more action points, or perception for sniping chars (if using the fix that is).

I think you're severely overestimating the increases in damage. Keep in mind that the skill change only brings weapons up to their existing potential, and the specific weapon edits only changed weaker weapons. The largest hits you can take are no larger than they were in vanilla. The only things that are going to one-shot the player are high explosives, and that only if unarmored. Also, as damage goes up and health goes down, each additional health point has increasing marginal value because there's less of a surplus buffer.

That said, there are some aspects that I'm not yet happy with.

First off, 2x headshots for the player has the ideological purity of being the same as NPCs, but doesn't work as a gameplay mechanic for the following reason: 2x headshots against NPCs gives the player an interesting decision of choosing a high probability shot or a high damage shot. NPCs don't make these kinds of decisions, so offering them decisions doesn't make gameplay more interesting, and players don't generally get to choose where to take a hit. For realism sake, headshots will still do more than baseline, but only 1.5x

Second, Adamantium Skeleton is the elephant in the room for limb damage. It's not possible to have a set of numbers that feels right both with and without that perk. Therefore, I'll be backing off 100% limb damage for players to 66% (vs 50% vanilla), but reducing Adamantium to 25% protection. 75% of 66% is the same as 50% of 100%, so the limb damage taken with the perk will remain the same. Limb damage without the perk will be lower than it was. (I might also do 75% limb damage and Adamantium reducing it 33%)

These, and some other tweaks to the existing modules, will come along with the healing module for the 3rd release.

After playing with these changes for a bit, I'll decide if the endurance multiplier needs to go as high as 7 or 8.

7 or 8 would be a lot better.

I wasn't overestimating. I fired this mod up yesterday with the intention to use either it or Arwen's for my next playthrough. I started a character with 9 strength, heavy handed trait and tagged melee and immediately noticed that it still took 6-8 swings at the upper body of a nearby farmer (with a sneak attack critical included at the beginning) to kill him (had this happen with both mod tests). Next, I went over to pete and another farmer, they both had .357 magnums, and they felt a lot more deadly to me than I did to them. This was on normal mode also because I assume that is the ideal setting for a modded game (and because I'd rather not lose the same amount of % damage that I gained through the mod). My character had 7 EN and was wearing the 8 DT vault armor that comes with the classic pack, and I thought to myself, if goodsprings is deadly, how does a high EN character survive at higher levels? So I loaded up my 8 EN (9 with implant) character and immediately noticed that the amount of damage I was taking during the final assault on the fort was way disproportionate to the amount of extra damage I was dealing to the legion centurions and, more than anyone, Lanius.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't mind enemies that hit harder, I actually welcome that. And nor do I expect your mod or any mod to bring damage to call of duty-style levels, because that's not what I want. But I guess my two gripes here are 1.) NPC damage shouldn't be so pronounced against someone with 7-9 EN stat points and 2.) the damage increase should be proportionate to the player's damage as well, whether that damage is melee or ranged. After all, it seems that most people are upset at the bullet sponge feel (outgoing damage) rather than incoming damage, how much they got hit for.

Lastly, don't confuse this feedback as criticism towards you. The vanilla gameplay is so whacked out that despite enjoying FNV's massive story, I just think it'd be a waste of time to play over again on a different path with the same unbalanced mechanics/broken DT rates. I really appreciate all the effort that is being put forth by all the modders here attempting to bring our gameplay back to what we had it in Fallout 3 with mods, and the game's only been out 2 weeks so of course we can't expect things to be ironed out already. But I wanted to post here because the EN issue was the primary reason why I wasn't using the mod. Everything else looks great.

Sounds like your frustrations had more to do with lacking damage through melee/unarmed attacks than anything to do with endurance. Melee/unarmed will still benefit from the skill change, but no specific melee weapons were modified as with the ranged ones. Likewise, your high-skill, well-equipped character should not expect to do more damage, because I only aimed to increase the damage from low skill and poor weapons (such as might be had by legion fodder troops). It sounds like some mid-range melee weapons like machettes might need a boost; otherwise, working as intended. This is Hardercore.

The endurance multiplier will be 7 in the next version. It's basically done, including the healing module, but I'll be giving it more shakedown play tonight before releasing.

The idea, of "hardercore" doesn't sounds interesting to me, but out of curiosity I checked to see what was here. There's quite a lot of thought put into this. More than I expected. Much better philosophy than "beating down New Vegas with the nerfstick." I might try this on my next playthrough.

The original concept was to do things I thought hardcoe should have done in the first place. It does seem to give people connotations that are not what I had in mind, though. It's based around hardcoe, but the goal isn't to become harder as much as to become more logical. That does happen to correspond with harder in many cases, though. For instance, the healing module is not going to be for everybody - it kicks realism up a notch from "arcade game" to "action movie". Action movie heros usually need at least a scene change to walk it off after getting shot In this case, it will be about rest.

Back to the name, I'm now aware of at least one other mod calling itself Hardercore, and in hindsight its probably low hanging fruit as far as names go. I've got a new one picked out, but I'll sit on it until the 1.0 release to help get eyeballs back on the mod from people who didn't see anything they wanted in 0.1

Reading your first post I feel that SPECIAL stats are bad enough that END probably needs to be 10 health per point to make END worthwhile. Secondly, raising gun damage nerfs melee characters implicitly. They still have to run the same distance getting shot at before they even begin doing damage of their own. A mod like yours needs to balance for this. The player must have a way (or ways) to make himself more durable in the face of more gun damage. My first thought is balance with the SPECIAL stats because they are all broken by default and need balancing anyway.

Come to think of it, one could try making all martial stats give +x health per point. STR, END, AGL. Melee characters are most likely to have these high, and they are in most need of health.

Non sequitur. The tactical uses of melee are what they are, and I feel no obligation to make sure reckless frontal assaults are successful.

What I said is not non seq. There is a dynamic between weapon range, damage, life, and run speed... This is game balance...

0.3 Changelog:

Added Healthier HealingDeadlier Combat- Health formula changed to 142 + 7 x Endurance (149-212)- Extended 2x headshots and .5x limb damage to all creature skeletons for which it was appropriate.- Lead pipes no longer mysteriously do twice the DPS of other 1h melee weapons.- NPCs are no longer metronomes and instead vary their rates of fire.- Backed off 100% limb damage for the player to 75% (vs. 50% vanilla)- Reduced Adamantium Skeleton to 33% limb damage reduction (which works out as being equal to the damage taken with 100% limb damage reduced by 50%)Reduced Wealth- Scrounger and Fortune Finder no longer add excessive numbers of objects to loot as in the last version.- Updated the descriptions of Scrounger and Fortune Finder- Drink rads are multiplied 3x.  (Why is this in the reduced wealth module?  Because it makes life more expensive.)- Certain sinks and fountains have been bumped from Purified to Good quality.

Thank you. This was the most ANNOYING thing in New Vegas and I always wondered if this could be modded. I also think the healthier healing module is great and I think I'll be using this now.

By the way, what are your plans for 'Sneakier Sneaking'

Dear God, I am so salivating at the next Hardercore modules. PLEASE tell us what you're thinking of putting in there! I beg of you!

I don't want to promise anything before I've implemented it, but the general gist of the sneaking module is to get NPCs to notice things that otherwise break credibility when they don't.

Great mod - been playing with v2 for the last day or so and am really enjoying the changes.

One question though - if I should ever want to disable this mod, will it negatively affect my game in any way (what will happen with the content of containers both that I have found and haven't yet found, etc.)? Will my HP total return to what it would normally be?

HP tends to reset on save loading, so I wouldn't worry about that. I removed the HP changes from the v2 mod when I was playing yesterday and my character's HP limit reset to ordinary max. Leveled lists should reset to normal, so FUTURE containers will be fine, but ones you've already visited will contain what they already contain until the next time they reset.

Thanks Alexandr.

One more thing: am I just doing something wrong or do doctor's bags do nothing in the healthier healing .esp? Hydras, however, work as noted. Could this be because I first read a "Today's Physician" book to boost my medicine skill to be able to use the doctor's bag? Can't imagine it would make any difference.

Bags are working fine in my game. I just double checked they are checking GetAV instead of GetBaseAV, so magazines ought to work, but one never knows.

Make sure you guys aren't using any other mods that edit medicine because they will conflict with the healing module.

Been trying out the mod for the last few days and I have to say that I'm impressed. I've yet to tried the new healing changes but I like the direction you are going with them. Do you have any ideas planned for healing radiation as well? Sometimes I think the "pop a Rad-away and wait 8 seconds" seems a bit wierd.

With your current changes, the only thing that seems wierd is that doctors can still insta-heal you. May I make a suggestion for a future release? It would be great if you could change the doctor healing so that it has a similar effect to using a blood pack and a hydra and possibly even changing the ownership of one of the beds in the place so that the player can rest there (like the "rent a room" scripts) to heal up over time. This would definitely make doctor healing more realistic.

Thanks for the mod. I'll be enjoying this for quite some time.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've been playing around with the health values to find a setting that I like. I understand what the HealthEnduranceMult and the HealthLevelMult is but what is the HealthEnduranceOffset and what does it do?

Something I thought about was forcing the passage of more time after you fade to black when a doctor works on you. Not near the top of my to-do's though.

HealthEnduranceOffset basically gives you that amount of endurance as extra, as far as the health calculation goes. So, if HealthEnduranceMult is 7, adding 1 to HealthEnduranceOffset gives you another 7 HP.

have you touched accuracy (gun sway/spread) in any way at all? if you have, may i know what settings youve changed? thanks

Any ETA on the next module's release? I'm loving my current game with all three Hardercore parts enabled, my first time for Health and Wealth. Pretty nice! I'd love to see what Manual Aiming ends up doing to the gameplay as a whole.