Never played it Morrowind, don't remember Oblivion being this sledgehammer in its approach.

This is the standard answer every time Bethesda's 'open world on rails' game design is raised is brought up - "you don't have to do it". The point is, they've designed the game to continually prod the player with a huge set of scripted events that occur all over the gameworld. These repetitive scripted events - that occur irrespective of whether they make any sense because they occur no matter what time of day it is - continually prod the player on the assumption they need to be constantly pushed to do stuff. Stuff that is linear quests that are on rails. It makes the game insanely repetitive on subsequent playthroughs.


The whole dialogue is about joining and triggers the questline based on the fact you have now joined the college. Bethesda just assume you want to join and follow the questline. That's their design focus. Yes of course you they can't make you do it, the point is their game design is predicated on the assumption you do - hence this design focus attempts to regularly railroad the player down a set of pre-ordained rails.


And the point is Skyrim is slipping down the path of simply assuming the player wishes to experience content because it's there and has to be prodded and pusged towards that content.
Linear content is a flaw - it doesn't matter which game was the most linear. For an RPG to present quests that have little or no option as to what happens is a flaw in their design.

Based on Skyrim, I'd say they're heading further in the opposite direction. Which I don't think is a good direction. Particularly when people are bamboozled into thinking their games offer immense freedom just because you can wander round and choose not to be railroaded down the linear paths they're trying to railroad you down.

This is just trying to rationalise being railroaded by an RPG into doing stuff irrespective of whether it fits your character. A better anaolgy would be having to sign up to do a degree before you can consult a university professor for their expert opinion about something.
What you're going on about, frankly I have no idea.

OK, so now my character must either join a mage school or be a scammer... that makes it all so much better.

It's a perfect anology, dude. It happens in real life. You can't claim that Skyrim ruins your immersion because this particular quest is "unrealistic". Give it up, bro.

You don't intend to stick with the College, you are using them for your own personal gain. Do I really have to spell it out for you? Next time I'll bring some crayons and draw you a picture.

And if my character is not the type of person to do that? (and also not interested in being a mage)

You want the data that you need at the bank? You know what you have to do... you can't walk into the bank and say, "Excuse me, I'm not the type of guy who infiltrates to get information I can't get otherwise, so would you mind just giving me the data I need that you consider your own private intellectual property?".

Try it and see if it works.

What are you on about?? In the game you're going there to ask them about something. Which has nothing to do with their "intellectual property". If you did want to ask a bank something, do you expect they'd agree to tell you on the condition you went to work behind the counter?

If you think you're "infiltrating" them, that's just something you've imagined in an attempt to rationalise Bethesda's usual total lack of logical storytelling.

I'm the Dragonborn and can prove it (the game lets you do this by demonstrating a Shout). I need special arcane knowledge to keep the world from ending. You actually think it's believable that the people at this university who are sitting on that knowledge are going to tell me that no way no how can I come in unless I sign up for classes? You don't think it might be a bit more realistic if perhaps we could come to some other kind of arrangement? I could buy the idea of the player being sent on another different quest in order to prove themselves to the College, perhaps bring them something they want in order to get access to what he wants, but the idea that you simply have to enrol on a course of study there (or roleplay that you are lying about doing so) in order to get through the door is just lazy writing.

They're desperate for students since tuition fees went up. They don't care if the world's going to end - if the college goes bust it may as well anyway. How's that for an arbitrary rationalisation?

So what? If you were the president of the United States you couldn't walk into a bank's corporate headquarters and say, "I'm the president. If you haven't seen my on television, I can still prove it to you. Now, I'll take your private intellectual property, if you please". Nope, won't work either. The only way you're getting that data is through infiltration (social engineering), getting lucky, or finding another social engineer already working there who will sell you the information.

Reality is a lazy writer I guess.

I'm confused.

What exactly is the dragonborn attempting to take from the college of winterhold?

So you don't think that there's any possibility that you could offer to buy the intellectual property, or to provide something equally valuable in trade for it? Nope, we don't let anyone through the door here unless they are signing up to be a student. No exceptions. At all. Ever.

What's this "intellectual property" you're so obsessed with? And since when has "intellectual property" acquirement ever involved becoming a college student? What you're saying makes no sense whatsoever. Bethesda should hire you as a writer.

The "intellectual property" is Plebeian's term for the info you need to get from the College. I'm just trying to run with his anology, even though I don't really think it's a good one.

I think that this College questline wasn't meant like that, to force you to join. But because of time constraint they did minimal version which just works in most cases.

The thing that bugs me is that Bethesda could have easily added a dialogue option like "I'm the Dragonborn. The world is in danger. Quick, admit me into your college." Perhaps you would then be forced to prove yourself by doing a shout, and then you would get admitted into the college without joining. Very easy solution.

You can see the remains of this option in the Creation Kit, but for whatever reason they removed it.

Oh right, getcha.


See I think this is the point. I'd wager they removed this because they didn't want people going there, finding out what they needed to and leaving before being roped into the college questline. They seem to care far less about RP than 'quick look! Content! You can be archmage! Get robes! Stuff to do! You want that, right?"

He needs intellectual property that they consider private. It belongs to them and members of the college.

Has anyone tried to enter the college from the outside through The Midden? I know that there are openings to it from the outside, but I've never entering from there (I was already a member of the college when I discovered it).

Often times it is hard to distinguish between faults in Skyrim that are a result of Bethesda wanting to shove content in your face or simply not having enough time to implement the content in an overall better way. While I fully agree that many quests are thrown in your face, I'm not so sure being forced to join the college was intended. But maybe I'm just being naive.

Post limit.

Post limit.