» Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:32 am Let's continue our discussion of how vampires and werewolves could have been improved for Dawnguard. You can read the original thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1392951-an-idea-of-how-vampires-and-werewolves-could-have-been-done/, but just in case you don't feel like doing that, I've taken the liberty of including the original post below.
And the second thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1393917-an-idea-of-how-vampires-and-werewolves-could-have-been-done-thread-2/.
But why stop there? There's even more content in the third thread, which you can read http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1394274-an-idea-of-how-vampires-and-werewolves-could-have-been-done-thread-3/page__p__21174368#entry21174368.
And if you really want to read absolutely everything that's been said about this before, the fourth thread is http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1395025-an-idea-of-how-vampires-and-werewolves-could-have-been-done-thread-4/page__p__21190790#entry21190790.
So let the discussion continue!?
Original Post from Original Thread:??
Hello everyone?
As most of you know, several people, myself included, have complained at length about how vampires and lycanthropes were handled in Skyrim. The lack of significant drawbacks made playing either of them lackluster, little more than a slight boost in abilities, rather than the mixed blessing/curse they should have been. Dawnguard improved some things, such as making werewolves more viable at higher levels with the new perk tree, but I can’t help but feel for all that it apparently did right, there are still some massive oversights and baffling design decisions that hurt it, in regard to both vampires and lycanthropes.?
?That got me thinking, what would be a better way of addressing these abilities in Skyrim, as well as future games? After thinking about it for quite a while, I have drafted the following ideas that I feel would be a better system for Skyrim’s vampires and lycanthropes than what we currently have. Some of these ideas will be familiar, as I have stated them in various threads throughout my time here, but I figured it was high time to pool all of those posts together to create a concentrated thread about them, rather than juggling 30 conversations across various threads.?
So let’s start with vampires. Specifically with the Cyrodiilic strain of vampires. We’ll start here because of their backwards feeding mechanic. You get stronger the less you feed, at the cost of your ability to blend in.??
Cyrodiilic Vampires
?
Spoiler
?Largely, I feel the Cyrodiilic strain should be kept how it was in Oblivion, with the powers you gain in Skyrim added as well. You take on sun damage at higher levels and people don’t want to have anything to do with you. However, I also feel feeding should be encouraged, which is why I’d have the Cyrodiilic vampires have a huge boost to speech/barter when at level 1. This I feel fits well with the Order’s MO of manipulating people, and would provide at least marginal incentive to people to keep themselves well fed besides the townspeople trying to kill you. Feeding should also only regress you one stage, rather than reset you back to stage one each time. Vampiric Drain’s effect should also be strengthened, but that will be developed further below.?
Location wise, I feel that the vampires of the Order would be best suited to the western half of Skyrim, and other areas that lack considerable amounts of snow. While they could be found in various caves and other hiding spots, several high profile NPCs should be of this strain as well (such as Sybille Stentor), indicating that the Order has begun to move in on Skyrim. In the case of that quest that Sybille gives you, you should be tasked with eliminating Volkihar, becoming an unwitting pawn in the Order’s schemes of ousting their competition.
Location wise, I feel that the vampires of the Order would be best suited to the western half of Skyrim, and other areas that lack considerable amounts of snow. While they could be found in various caves and other hiding spots, several high profile NPCs should be of this strain as well (such as Sybille Stentor), indicating that the Order has begun to move in on Skyrim. In the case of that quest that Sybille gives you, you should be tasked with eliminating Volkihar, becoming an unwitting pawn in the Order’s schemes of ousting their competition.
Non Cyrodiilic Vampire Feeding Mechanic?
Spoiler
?Now that we’ve gotten the Cyrodiilic strain out of the way, let’s take a look at feeding. In my opinion, only the Cyrodiilic vampires should be encouraged not to feed (and even that’s debatable). Other vampires, such as the Volkihar and the new Vampire Lords, should be encouraged to feed at regular intervals. And here is where I propose a new feeding system. Vampirism should keep stages with these two strains, but in a different way. Here’s the rank system I propose:??
Vampire Fledgling: What you are when you first turn.?
Blooded Vampire: Lowest form of vampirism after you level from feeding for the first time.?
Vampire Mistwalker: Second Stage
?Vampire Nighstalker: Third Stage?
Master Vampire: Highest level of vampirism.??
Rather than increasing in a level of vampirism by not feeding, you would grow a level after feeding on X amount of people, either by feeding on them in their sleep, or by the current method Vampire Lords use to level up and gain perks. Currently I was thinking that you’d level to Blooded after 10, Mistwalker after 25, Nightstalker after 75, and Master Vampire after 150 victims.??
As previously stated, you would regress if in power if you didn’t feed regularly. If you were a Master Vampire, and you didn’t feed for three days, you’d regress to Nightsalker, and so on, all the way back down to Blooded Vampire.??
With vampires under this feeding system, there wouldn’t be the current system of seesawing drawbacks and bonuses. Being a vampire in the early stages would be a hard (un)life. Your weaknesses would be maximized and your bonuses would be negligible. However, if you survived long enough to reach the highest levels of vampirism, the reverse would be true. You’d have maximized strengths and lesser weaknesses. These effects would be determined based on what type of vampire you were. A Master Volkihar would have different abilities than a Master Vampire Lord, and thus feel different in combat. We’ll start looking at this proposed new system with the Volkihar.
Vampire Fledgling: What you are when you first turn.?
Blooded Vampire: Lowest form of vampirism after you level from feeding for the first time.?
Vampire Mistwalker: Second Stage
?Vampire Nighstalker: Third Stage?
Master Vampire: Highest level of vampirism.??
Rather than increasing in a level of vampirism by not feeding, you would grow a level after feeding on X amount of people, either by feeding on them in their sleep, or by the current method Vampire Lords use to level up and gain perks. Currently I was thinking that you’d level to Blooded after 10, Mistwalker after 25, Nightstalker after 75, and Master Vampire after 150 victims.??
As previously stated, you would regress if in power if you didn’t feed regularly. If you were a Master Vampire, and you didn’t feed for three days, you’d regress to Nightsalker, and so on, all the way back down to Blooded Vampire.??
With vampires under this feeding system, there wouldn’t be the current system of seesawing drawbacks and bonuses. Being a vampire in the early stages would be a hard (un)life. Your weaknesses would be maximized and your bonuses would be negligible. However, if you survived long enough to reach the highest levels of vampirism, the reverse would be true. You’d have maximized strengths and lesser weaknesses. These effects would be determined based on what type of vampire you were. A Master Volkihar would have different abilities than a Master Vampire Lord, and thus feel different in combat. We’ll start looking at this proposed new system with the Volkihar.
Volkihar
Spoiler
?The Volkihar are ice based creatures, and as such many of their abilities would factor the cold. They’d also be much more about up close combat, rather than the Cyroidiilic strains emphasis on Sneak and Illusion.??
Constant Abilities throughout stages: Water Breathing, Night Eye, +15 unarmed damage, Vampiric Drain, and the ability to access 4-5 Volkihar dens throughout Skyrim (homes located under the ice).?
Blooded Vampire: 5 points of damage per second in sunlight, 100% weakness to fire, 10% resistance to frost, 5 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric drain does 5 points of damage per second.??
Vampire Mistwalker: 3 points of damage per second in sunlight, 75% weakness to fire, 40% resistance to frost, 10 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 10 points of damage per second. Also gains the ability Freeze: a once a day power similar to Ice Form.??
Vampire Nightstalker: 2 points of damage per second in sunlight, 40% weakness to fire, 75% resistance to frost, 20 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 15 points of damage per second. Also gains the ability Snow Veil: A once a day power similar to Frost Cloak that also increases the regen rate of H/M/S while damaging nearby opponents.?
Master Vampire: 1 point of damage per second in sunlight, 10% weakness to fire, 100% resistance to frost, 30 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 20 points of damage per second. Also gains the abilities Snow Storm: A once a day power similar to Blizzard that can be used without charging and Frozen Forms: A once a day power similar to Ice Form, but with an area of effect, instead of just simply hitting a target in front of you.?
As a Volkihar, most of the ordinary denizens of Skyrim would want little to do with you. Thus there would be several Volkihar Dens scattered throughout Skyrim that you could use to establish homes. They’d mostly be found in airpockets that could be accessed by diving into lakes and finding the tunnels leading to them, or by finding the part of the frozen surface of the lake you could “activate” to go through the ice and enter your home. They’d provide safe storage, a bed to rest, and other benefits to the player to make up for the fact they wouldn’t be welcome in most other places, and would offer a variety of qualities of life (I’d really like one to be in a sunken ship, but logistics might pose a problem).?
There’d also be a few Volkihar dens (mostly in the east) that had others of your kind where you could go to exchange gear and buy supplies and other such needs, and I’d suggest there being an item called Veil of the Volkihar, which would allow you to disguise yourself in towns when worn that could be acquired after a fairly long Volkihar questline.
Constant Abilities throughout stages: Water Breathing, Night Eye, +15 unarmed damage, Vampiric Drain, and the ability to access 4-5 Volkihar dens throughout Skyrim (homes located under the ice).?
Blooded Vampire: 5 points of damage per second in sunlight, 100% weakness to fire, 10% resistance to frost, 5 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric drain does 5 points of damage per second.??
Vampire Mistwalker: 3 points of damage per second in sunlight, 75% weakness to fire, 40% resistance to frost, 10 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 10 points of damage per second. Also gains the ability Freeze: a once a day power similar to Ice Form.??
Vampire Nightstalker: 2 points of damage per second in sunlight, 40% weakness to fire, 75% resistance to frost, 20 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 15 points of damage per second. Also gains the ability Snow Veil: A once a day power similar to Frost Cloak that also increases the regen rate of H/M/S while damaging nearby opponents.?
Master Vampire: 1 point of damage per second in sunlight, 10% weakness to fire, 100% resistance to frost, 30 points of frost and stamina damage with unarmed attacks. Vampiric Drain does 20 points of damage per second. Also gains the abilities Snow Storm: A once a day power similar to Blizzard that can be used without charging and Frozen Forms: A once a day power similar to Ice Form, but with an area of effect, instead of just simply hitting a target in front of you.?
As a Volkihar, most of the ordinary denizens of Skyrim would want little to do with you. Thus there would be several Volkihar Dens scattered throughout Skyrim that you could use to establish homes. They’d mostly be found in airpockets that could be accessed by diving into lakes and finding the tunnels leading to them, or by finding the part of the frozen surface of the lake you could “activate” to go through the ice and enter your home. They’d provide safe storage, a bed to rest, and other benefits to the player to make up for the fact they wouldn’t be welcome in most other places, and would offer a variety of qualities of life (I’d really like one to be in a sunken ship, but logistics might pose a problem).?
There’d also be a few Volkihar dens (mostly in the east) that had others of your kind where you could go to exchange gear and buy supplies and other such needs, and I’d suggest there being an item called Veil of the Volkihar, which would allow you to disguise yourself in towns when worn that could be acquired after a fairly long Volkihar questline.
Vampire Lords?
Spoiler
??As for the Vampire Lords, it’s difficult for me to say what should be done with them. It needs to be a sort of marriage between the outcast Volkihar and the Cyrodiilic strain that blends in with its prey.?
Constant Abilities: Night Eye, +10 unarmed damage, Vampiric Drain.?
Blooded Vampire: -40 to H/M/S and regen rate is negated in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 5 points of damage per second, NPCs hostile. 100% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic.??
Vampire Mistwalker: -30 to H/M/S and regen rate is cut in half in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 10 points of damage per second, NPCs hostile. 75% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Also gains Vampire Seduction.??
Vampire Nighstalker: -20 to H/M/S and regen rate is cut in half in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 15 points of damage per second, NPCs not hostile when not transformed. 40% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Vampire Seduction becomes stronger.??
Master Vampire: -10 to H/M/S and regen rate is normal in sunlight. Vampiric Drain does 20 points of damage per second, NPCs not hostile when not transformed. 10% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Gains the Power Bat Form, which allows them to turn into a flock of bats even when not transformed (continuously drains magicka). NPCs will become hostile if they see you transform to or from this state.??
Obviously, one of the major advantages to the Vampire Lord strain would be to... well, transform into Vampire Lords. This presents a major power boost to the character and allows them to inflict serious damage to their opponents very quickly. However, this power should not be without it's downsides. I feel that they should have increased sun damage in their transformed states. This would encourage those who wish to utilize the Vampire Lord form to blot out the sun when they feel like transforming. This would also negate the Sun Damage from enchanted weapons. To that end, the stat reduction is strengthened by 1.5 when transformed in sunlight and the weakness to sunlight weapons/magic is doubled.
Constant Abilities: Night Eye, +10 unarmed damage, Vampiric Drain.?
Blooded Vampire: -40 to H/M/S and regen rate is negated in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 5 points of damage per second, NPCs hostile. 100% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic.??
Vampire Mistwalker: -30 to H/M/S and regen rate is cut in half in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 10 points of damage per second, NPCs hostile. 75% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Also gains Vampire Seduction.??
Vampire Nighstalker: -20 to H/M/S and regen rate is cut in half in sunlight, Vampiric Drain does 15 points of damage per second, NPCs not hostile when not transformed. 40% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Vampire Seduction becomes stronger.??
Master Vampire: -10 to H/M/S and regen rate is normal in sunlight. Vampiric Drain does 20 points of damage per second, NPCs not hostile when not transformed. 10% weakness to sunlight weapons/magic. Gains the Power Bat Form, which allows them to turn into a flock of bats even when not transformed (continuously drains magicka). NPCs will become hostile if they see you transform to or from this state.??
Obviously, one of the major advantages to the Vampire Lord strain would be to... well, transform into Vampire Lords. This presents a major power boost to the character and allows them to inflict serious damage to their opponents very quickly. However, this power should not be without it's downsides. I feel that they should have increased sun damage in their transformed states. This would encourage those who wish to utilize the Vampire Lord form to blot out the sun when they feel like transforming. This would also negate the Sun Damage from enchanted weapons. To that end, the stat reduction is strengthened by 1.5 when transformed in sunlight and the weakness to sunlight weapons/magic is doubled.
Vampire Summations?
Spoiler
??In effect, the three vampire forms would be set to different playstyles. Those favoring Rouge builds would find the Cyrodiilic Order more to their liking than the Mages, who would gravitate towards Vampire Lord. Volkihar would be for Warriors, allowing them to continuously keep their enemies drained of stamina and unable to do power attacks/move quickly.??
Shared bonuses across all vampires regardless of stage would be:
Night Eye?+10 unarmed damage boost (+15 for Volkihar)?
Vampiric Drain?
+5% H/M/S regen rate at night??
Night Eye ability
Disease Immunity
Poison Immunity
Shared weaknesses across all vampires regardless of stage would be:?
20 point extra damage when hit with Silver?
20 point extra damage when hit with sunlight weapons/magic?(More against Vampire Lord varieties)
No H/M/S regen when wearing silver equipment??
Now that that’s out of the way, let’s move on to lycanthropes. (Don’t worry, this will be considerably shorter.)
Shared bonuses across all vampires regardless of stage would be:
Night Eye?+10 unarmed damage boost (+15 for Volkihar)?
Vampiric Drain?
+5% H/M/S regen rate at night??
Night Eye ability
Disease Immunity
Poison Immunity
Shared weaknesses across all vampires regardless of stage would be:?
20 point extra damage when hit with Silver?
20 point extra damage when hit with sunlight weapons/magic?(More against Vampire Lord varieties)
No H/M/S regen when wearing silver equipment??
Now that that’s out of the way, let’s move on to lycanthropes. (Don’t worry, this will be considerably shorter.)
Lycanthropes?
Spoiler
??Werewolves overall seem to be fine now, minus a few tweaks. These tweaks would largely be necessary to help make them different from another lycanthrope many of us have wanted to come across since we first heard about them: Werebears. One of these tweaks would be to include both werebears and werewolves, in pre-transformed states on the roads, and in transformed states in the wilds. I know we have wild werewolves already, but there’s one problem: They can’t infect you. I really think that has to be changed so that you can become a werewolf without having to join the Companions.??
For starters, let’s look at what all lycanthropes should have in common:??
Forced lunar transformations twice a month (Companion’s werewolves would be exempt, as would those wearing the Ring of Hircine). Transformations would last from 8 PM to 530 AM, and you would be notified about it several hours before the transformation sets in, giving you plenty of time to get out of town before you change. Additionally, Lycanthropes would still be able to change at will once a day, or an unlimited number of times with the Ring of Hircine.?
Night Eye ability in both human and beastform?
+10 Unarmed Damage when in human form (+20 for Werebears)?
Ability to toggle between various howls/roars and Night Eye
?+5% H/M/S regen rate in human form?
20 points extra damage when struck by Silver weapons in normal form
40 points extra damage when struck by Silver weapons in Beast form.?
H/M/S don’t regenerate when silver items equipped?
No rested bonuses while having the beastblood??
Disease Immunity.
More extreme Silver penalties could be as follows:
Equipping Silver gear prevents H/M/S from regenerating as well as your transformations.
Having any Silver in your INVENTORY at all prevents transformations and your H/M/S from regenerating.
To make werebears feel different than their werewolf counterparts, I propose the following:?
Base their damage on Two-Handed Skill.?
Base their armor on Heavy Armor (AR rating of 350 at 100 skill level)?
Give them 300 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming.?
Their sprinting speed should be a little faster than a horse, but gobble stamina.
Conversely, their power attacks would use little stamina.?
Their normal walking speed should be a tad slower than human form.??
Werewolves on the other hand:?
Base their damage on One-Handed Skill?
Base their armor on Light Armor (AR rating of 175 at 100 skill level)?
Gain only 100 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming?
Very fast sprint speed and slow rate of stamina depletion while sprinting?
Power attacks use more stamina than werebears.?
Faster walking speed than human form.?
Give them the ability to Sneak.
Some have argued against basing the damage werecreatures do and the amount of damage they take on a certain skills makes railroads you into being a two-handed person when you want to be a werebear, despite the fact that up until then you had been using magic or one handed. This is a valid point, but I feel that it could be addressed by having your skills level up when you give/receive damage in your transformed state. That way, you could continue to grow stronger without "tainting" your non-melee character by forcing him to pick up a sword now and then. But getting back to how to make the werebeasts different from one another:
Werebears would have Roars, similar to werewolves’ Howls. These are the ideas for Roars I currently have:?
Fear Roar (Stronger than werewolves’ similar Howl)?
Disarm Roar (Disarms nearby opponents)?
Adrenaline Roar (Roar that causes werebears H/S regen rate to skyrocket for 60 seconds similar to Histskin and Adrenaline Rush. Longer cooldown than other Roars)
For starters, let’s look at what all lycanthropes should have in common:??
Forced lunar transformations twice a month (Companion’s werewolves would be exempt, as would those wearing the Ring of Hircine). Transformations would last from 8 PM to 530 AM, and you would be notified about it several hours before the transformation sets in, giving you plenty of time to get out of town before you change. Additionally, Lycanthropes would still be able to change at will once a day, or an unlimited number of times with the Ring of Hircine.?
Night Eye ability in both human and beastform?
+10 Unarmed Damage when in human form (+20 for Werebears)?
Ability to toggle between various howls/roars and Night Eye
?+5% H/M/S regen rate in human form?
20 points extra damage when struck by Silver weapons in normal form
40 points extra damage when struck by Silver weapons in Beast form.?
H/M/S don’t regenerate when silver items equipped?
No rested bonuses while having the beastblood??
Disease Immunity.
More extreme Silver penalties could be as follows:
Equipping Silver gear prevents H/M/S from regenerating as well as your transformations.
Having any Silver in your INVENTORY at all prevents transformations and your H/M/S from regenerating.
To make werebears feel different than their werewolf counterparts, I propose the following:?
Base their damage on Two-Handed Skill.?
Base their armor on Heavy Armor (AR rating of 350 at 100 skill level)?
Give them 300 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming.?
Their sprinting speed should be a little faster than a horse, but gobble stamina.
Conversely, their power attacks would use little stamina.?
Their normal walking speed should be a tad slower than human form.??
Werewolves on the other hand:?
Base their damage on One-Handed Skill?
Base their armor on Light Armor (AR rating of 175 at 100 skill level)?
Gain only 100 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming?
Very fast sprint speed and slow rate of stamina depletion while sprinting?
Power attacks use more stamina than werebears.?
Faster walking speed than human form.?
Give them the ability to Sneak.
Some have argued against basing the damage werecreatures do and the amount of damage they take on a certain skills makes railroads you into being a two-handed person when you want to be a werebear, despite the fact that up until then you had been using magic or one handed. This is a valid point, but I feel that it could be addressed by having your skills level up when you give/receive damage in your transformed state. That way, you could continue to grow stronger without "tainting" your non-melee character by forcing him to pick up a sword now and then. But getting back to how to make the werebeasts different from one another:
Werebears would have Roars, similar to werewolves’ Howls. These are the ideas for Roars I currently have:?
Fear Roar (Stronger than werewolves’ similar Howl)?
Disarm Roar (Disarms nearby opponents)?
Adrenaline Roar (Roar that causes werebears H/S regen rate to skyrocket for 60 seconds similar to Histskin and Adrenaline Rush. Longer cooldown than other Roars)
So there you have it. My ideas for how vampires and lycanthropes should have been done for Dawnguard. Maybe some of this will be implemented in later DLCs, but I’m not exactly holding my breath about it.??What are your guys’ thoughts??
EDIT: Forgot to add that both Vampires and Lycanthropes would continue to have disease immunity, while the vampires also held onto their poison immunity.?
?EDIT EDIT: I feel I need to emphasize this point. The above thoughts are what I feel should have been implemented rather than what we got in Dawnguard. Pointing out what Dawnguard has largely established is pointless in arguing against these points because this is about what I feel should have been done instead. You're free to point out what things you think work in Dawnguard but remember that these ideas were largely a retrospect, looking at the baffling design and story mistakes Bethesda made with its new DLC, and what I feel they should have done instead.??
EDIT EDIT EDIT: The following is Werewolf&Vampire's hypothesis as to how the current vampire design decisions came about. Posted with permission. You can read the full thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1389968-vampires-in-skyrim-and-the-bethesda-crew/.??
Spoiler
Deep in the age-old office of the Bethesda studios, within the lowest bowels of the headquarters in Rockville Maryland, was a congregation of developers. A large rectangular table was spread out before them and each were equipped with men and paper. Their task was already finished, and with a solemn silence, they awaited Todd Howard's response after they had passed down their ideas to the master. The theme of the new DLC was vampires. And with Skyrim's fame rising, they could flesh out a darker and more sinister side to Tamriel by adding a download based on the infamous blood-svckers.
Todd Howard stood at the helm in the far end of the grand table, with his blue eyes, tousled hair and trademark smirk. His hands pressed together, fingers locked and his face hiding behind his hands. No one spoke, for this was a moment for Todd Howard to contemplate on what they had written. Few members began to sweat amidst the cold air conditioning, and other simply sunk in their seats, for no one knew what Todd was going to say.
He moved his hands, checking each and every paper, his grim azure eyes scanning the pages from top to bottom. And with a swift motion of his fingers, he tossed them aside with disdain. "Crap. Crap. Crap. Megacrap."
He sighed. "See that mountain in the map? We can climb it!"
"Sir," one of them spoke. "What seems to be the problem."
Todd scoffed and looked at the other developers, adopting a mocking tone as he responded to the man with a venemous tone. "What seems to be the problem, he asks me. You know what the problem is? Volkihar reaching out of the ice! New ice-breaking mechanics? A freezing forst breath for vampires that acts like a subtle version of a shout to freeze victims? Under-the-ice vampiric lair where players can dwell? This is bogus! A sham!"
"But sir, we want to adhere to our earlier concepts on what the vampires of Skyrim are. So many fans have been speculating on the Volkihar ever since Oblivion and when Skyrim was announced. We just want to appease the fans and create a wonderful gameplay that can tie in to lore."
"What else do the damn fans desire?" Howard inquired vehemently.
"Some want lunar transformations for werewolves, wild Lycanthropes, werebears, spears, crossbows."
"We already showed some of those in game-jam." Todd reminded him while sitting back in his chair.
"Well...I think--"
"Wait," Todd interrupted. "Why lunar transformations and wild werewolves? We already have werewolves in the Companions. Fans have been torturing me with whether or not damn werewolves would be in and now they want forced tranformations? And what about those werewolves in the cages?"
"Well, I feel we can add additional Lycanthropy for players who loved our earlier games and are not forced to play as a modified werewolf. Lore says...."
"No one cares about lore anymore. Lore can kiss my ass. The kids want good gameplay with no drawbacks. They want it easy and less irritating. Werewolves can transform at will by some witch magic, add that for your lore. And, erm, vampires do not burn in the sun because kids hated that so just make them weaker. But what more can we fix?"
"Add two different strains for vamp--" A woman said before being cut off by Todd.
"I have a solution! Why not add wild werewolves!"
One of the developers nearly face-palmed, but composed himself and swallowed hard to better acknowledge the leader's decree. "That would be great, sir. And we can add Sanies Lupinus as a disease!"
"No alternate ways of getting Lycanthropy. It would mean lunar transformations, perks in human form and many other things. It would not make sense at all. Just keep random werewolves."
"Yes, sir. And what about werebears?"
"No, werebears would not make sense in a province of Skyrim. They never were too great in numbers. Keep the werewolves."
"Anything else?"
"Add crossbows like the movie Van Helsing. By the way, has anyone here watched Underworld?"
"I have," Vsions, one of the influential(and hard-working) developers said. "Good movie."
"Yes, great movie. Make Vampire Lords look like Marcus from the second movie. Eh, add a man named Harkon who wants to blot out the sun using Elder Scrolls(I think they need to be added more than they already are). And add a female vampire companion for the player that looks identical like the protagonist of the films. Name the NPC Selene with a wonderful character development and make it so that players cannot marry her."
"But Todd, we already have some interesting lore on vampires of Skyrim that we can expand upon. And besides, fans would catch up on the similarities as well. Might I suggest changing the NPC's name and making her a bride for the player?"
"No vampire marriage with that NPC. Just make it so that she doesn't like chapels to justify this removal. Go ahead and make the female NPC Serene."
"Well, if she doesn't like chapels, maybe a dark wedding based off a Molag Bal ritual? And the name still sounds the same."
Todd Howard glanced over at Pete Hines with a fiery look on his face, he turned back to the others in his presence and slammed his fist on the table out of anger. "So be it, name her Serana. There will be no marriage and that is final. I am tired of the fans bickering about lore, I want to troll them with no marriage with a well-developed NPC. I want to see thousands of [censored] cry out in terror. I don't care if fans will note the similarities between our franchise and the others. Kids adore flying vampire lords and overpowered crimson balls of drain life. I say add mist forms and make them turn into a swarm bats! Oh and add blood bottles and new feeding animations to faciliate feedings for players."
One of the developers nodded and began to write on a fresh sheet of paper. "The blood potions and the new feeding animations is a great idea, Mr. Todd. Now players won't have to worry about reaching stage 4 vampirism and can feed on bandits and NPC's before reaching towns or cities."
"You know, why don't you just remove the stage 4 attacks from the NPC's? Make it easier for the children."
"It would render the blood bottles and the feeding mechanics useless. Players would lose all sense of roleplay...there would be no major drawbacks."
"Whatever, just add it. We have too many people whining about becoming a vampire. We have to make it super easy for them otherwise our forums will be flooded by virtual tears."
"Whatever you say, Todd."
The group began to share ideas back and forth, with Todd overpowering their ideas and twisting them to favor the fans of lesser ages. In the end, it came down to new features.
"I think it would be wise to also restrict vampiric players from changing their face. After all, in a vampire-centric DLC based on vampires, it would make perfect sense to not allow vampire players to have their faces changed."
"And vampire lords, what can we do about them? How do they tie in the lore?"
"Daedric Pact!"
"You mean how werewolves already made a pact with the Witches of Glenmoril? Or how Cyrodiilic vampires made a pact with Clavicus Vile? Or how the Thieves Guild's Nightingale's made a pact with Nocturnal?"
"No. Have them make a pact with Molag Bal! We never had anyone make a pact with him before." Todd Howard rejoiced with glee with his ground-breaking, innovative idea. And in the end, he shared his absolute mindset and his ideas on what the changes in the gameplay should be. Todd Howard's word was absolute.
"So, my great ideas are in the game. What do you guys? Repeat them for me."
"We have wild werewolves, but no alternate werewolf disease. We have a complete overhaul on vampires, giving them glowing eyes that makes their condition obvious and also no more Stage 4 vampire attacks which makes sense that ingame characters would not attack them. We have Vampire Lords based off Underworld, Man-Bat powers and more Underworld influences such as Serana's coffin in the Awakening quest and name and father issues. We also have new 'upgradeable' fortresses for players based on quest progression which still retains the messy enviorment. There is also the addition of a vampire frenzy where vampire NPC's raid town and villagers and kills the NPC's without warning. There is a face sculptor who can change the appearance of the player, but not vampiric players in this vampire-based expansion."
"Good! Amazing ideas. See guys, was that so hard? The game is to be for casual players. No one Rps anymore. No one likes irritating gameplay. Lycanthropy and Vampirism should be amazing hulking power-ups with little to no drawbacks at all! On a side note, I think werewolves should keep their armor on after they transform and wield weapons too! Because that would make perfect sense according to the fans. Maybe next DLC with can patch that in."
Todd Howard stood at the helm in the far end of the grand table, with his blue eyes, tousled hair and trademark smirk. His hands pressed together, fingers locked and his face hiding behind his hands. No one spoke, for this was a moment for Todd Howard to contemplate on what they had written. Few members began to sweat amidst the cold air conditioning, and other simply sunk in their seats, for no one knew what Todd was going to say.
He moved his hands, checking each and every paper, his grim azure eyes scanning the pages from top to bottom. And with a swift motion of his fingers, he tossed them aside with disdain. "Crap. Crap. Crap. Megacrap."
He sighed. "See that mountain in the map? We can climb it!"
"Sir," one of them spoke. "What seems to be the problem."
Todd scoffed and looked at the other developers, adopting a mocking tone as he responded to the man with a venemous tone. "What seems to be the problem, he asks me. You know what the problem is? Volkihar reaching out of the ice! New ice-breaking mechanics? A freezing forst breath for vampires that acts like a subtle version of a shout to freeze victims? Under-the-ice vampiric lair where players can dwell? This is bogus! A sham!"
"But sir, we want to adhere to our earlier concepts on what the vampires of Skyrim are. So many fans have been speculating on the Volkihar ever since Oblivion and when Skyrim was announced. We just want to appease the fans and create a wonderful gameplay that can tie in to lore."
"What else do the damn fans desire?" Howard inquired vehemently.
"Some want lunar transformations for werewolves, wild Lycanthropes, werebears, spears, crossbows."
"We already showed some of those in game-jam." Todd reminded him while sitting back in his chair.
"Well...I think--"
"Wait," Todd interrupted. "Why lunar transformations and wild werewolves? We already have werewolves in the Companions. Fans have been torturing me with whether or not damn werewolves would be in and now they want forced tranformations? And what about those werewolves in the cages?"
"Well, I feel we can add additional Lycanthropy for players who loved our earlier games and are not forced to play as a modified werewolf. Lore says...."
"No one cares about lore anymore. Lore can kiss my ass. The kids want good gameplay with no drawbacks. They want it easy and less irritating. Werewolves can transform at will by some witch magic, add that for your lore. And, erm, vampires do not burn in the sun because kids hated that so just make them weaker. But what more can we fix?"
"Add two different strains for vamp--" A woman said before being cut off by Todd.
"I have a solution! Why not add wild werewolves!"
One of the developers nearly face-palmed, but composed himself and swallowed hard to better acknowledge the leader's decree. "That would be great, sir. And we can add Sanies Lupinus as a disease!"
"No alternate ways of getting Lycanthropy. It would mean lunar transformations, perks in human form and many other things. It would not make sense at all. Just keep random werewolves."
"Yes, sir. And what about werebears?"
"No, werebears would not make sense in a province of Skyrim. They never were too great in numbers. Keep the werewolves."
"Anything else?"
"Add crossbows like the movie Van Helsing. By the way, has anyone here watched Underworld?"
"I have," Vsions, one of the influential(and hard-working) developers said. "Good movie."
"Yes, great movie. Make Vampire Lords look like Marcus from the second movie. Eh, add a man named Harkon who wants to blot out the sun using Elder Scrolls(I think they need to be added more than they already are). And add a female vampire companion for the player that looks identical like the protagonist of the films. Name the NPC Selene with a wonderful character development and make it so that players cannot marry her."
"But Todd, we already have some interesting lore on vampires of Skyrim that we can expand upon. And besides, fans would catch up on the similarities as well. Might I suggest changing the NPC's name and making her a bride for the player?"
"No vampire marriage with that NPC. Just make it so that she doesn't like chapels to justify this removal. Go ahead and make the female NPC Serene."
"Well, if she doesn't like chapels, maybe a dark wedding based off a Molag Bal ritual? And the name still sounds the same."
Todd Howard glanced over at Pete Hines with a fiery look on his face, he turned back to the others in his presence and slammed his fist on the table out of anger. "So be it, name her Serana. There will be no marriage and that is final. I am tired of the fans bickering about lore, I want to troll them with no marriage with a well-developed NPC. I want to see thousands of [censored] cry out in terror. I don't care if fans will note the similarities between our franchise and the others. Kids adore flying vampire lords and overpowered crimson balls of drain life. I say add mist forms and make them turn into a swarm bats! Oh and add blood bottles and new feeding animations to faciliate feedings for players."
One of the developers nodded and began to write on a fresh sheet of paper. "The blood potions and the new feeding animations is a great idea, Mr. Todd. Now players won't have to worry about reaching stage 4 vampirism and can feed on bandits and NPC's before reaching towns or cities."
"You know, why don't you just remove the stage 4 attacks from the NPC's? Make it easier for the children."
"It would render the blood bottles and the feeding mechanics useless. Players would lose all sense of roleplay...there would be no major drawbacks."
"Whatever, just add it. We have too many people whining about becoming a vampire. We have to make it super easy for them otherwise our forums will be flooded by virtual tears."
"Whatever you say, Todd."
The group began to share ideas back and forth, with Todd overpowering their ideas and twisting them to favor the fans of lesser ages. In the end, it came down to new features.
"I think it would be wise to also restrict vampiric players from changing their face. After all, in a vampire-centric DLC based on vampires, it would make perfect sense to not allow vampire players to have their faces changed."
"And vampire lords, what can we do about them? How do they tie in the lore?"
"Daedric Pact!"
"You mean how werewolves already made a pact with the Witches of Glenmoril? Or how Cyrodiilic vampires made a pact with Clavicus Vile? Or how the Thieves Guild's Nightingale's made a pact with Nocturnal?"
"No. Have them make a pact with Molag Bal! We never had anyone make a pact with him before." Todd Howard rejoiced with glee with his ground-breaking, innovative idea. And in the end, he shared his absolute mindset and his ideas on what the changes in the gameplay should be. Todd Howard's word was absolute.
"So, my great ideas are in the game. What do you guys? Repeat them for me."
"We have wild werewolves, but no alternate werewolf disease. We have a complete overhaul on vampires, giving them glowing eyes that makes their condition obvious and also no more Stage 4 vampire attacks which makes sense that ingame characters would not attack them. We have Vampire Lords based off Underworld, Man-Bat powers and more Underworld influences such as Serana's coffin in the Awakening quest and name and father issues. We also have new 'upgradeable' fortresses for players based on quest progression which still retains the messy enviorment. There is also the addition of a vampire frenzy where vampire NPC's raid town and villagers and kills the NPC's without warning. There is a face sculptor who can change the appearance of the player, but not vampiric players in this vampire-based expansion."
"Good! Amazing ideas. See guys, was that so hard? The game is to be for casual players. No one Rps anymore. No one likes irritating gameplay. Lycanthropy and Vampirism should be amazing hulking power-ups with little to no drawbacks at all! On a side note, I think werewolves should keep their armor on after they transform and wield weapons too! Because that would make perfect sense according to the fans. Maybe next DLC with can patch that in."
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Altering Werewolf/Vampire appearance:
Spoiler
There has been a lot of talk about customization the looks of werewolves. In my opinion, the fact that you can't alter your vampire's appearance with the new person in Riften is a considerable disappointment, and I hope at some point it gets addressed, at least in regards to the human form of vampires.
Now, about werewolves. We've heard before that there was once talk of different models for male and female werewolves, as well as different models for them depending on their race, but this was scrapped at some point. To be perfectly honest, I'd rather not have it be tied to race, though I can see why some would. Nor would I want it to be based on hair color. Instead, I think it would be nice to be able to change your beastforms look, including eye and fur color, as well as adding the scars and whatnot.
Currently, as there is no other werecreature clan besides the Companions (and even their status as such is debatable) I think the best place to alter your werewolf's beastform would be the Underforge. You could go there, transform, and activate the basin, which would activate the character creation esque menu to let you change your werewolf's appearance. You can see possible fur colors/patterns that you could choose from http://www.cosmosmith.com/wolfpage.html.
Now, about werewolves. We've heard before that there was once talk of different models for male and female werewolves, as well as different models for them depending on their race, but this was scrapped at some point. To be perfectly honest, I'd rather not have it be tied to race, though I can see why some would. Nor would I want it to be based on hair color. Instead, I think it would be nice to be able to change your beastforms look, including eye and fur color, as well as adding the scars and whatnot.
Currently, as there is no other werecreature clan besides the Companions (and even their status as such is debatable) I think the best place to alter your werewolf's beastform would be the Underforge. You could go there, transform, and activate the basin, which would activate the character creation esque menu to let you change your werewolf's appearance. You can see possible fur colors/patterns that you could choose from http://www.cosmosmith.com/wolfpage.html.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Vampire Lords and Lycanthropic Followers:
Spoiler
Personally, I've always found it a little silly that your gifted followers refuse to transform when traveling with you, save for scripted events. I'm not sure if Serana transforms at all, but you there's only a handful of times in the vanilla game your friends transform into werewolves.
I feel this should be addressed. It doesn't make sense that your followers would refuse to transform, unless they have some moral stance against it. But even then, I think with a high enough speech check, you should be able to convince them to transform when they need to. A dialogue tree could facilitate setting the options for the AI to consider transforming, with various things such as:
Are we in a town?
Is it day or night?
What kind of enemy am I fighting?
Will transforming save my life?
Has the player character transformed?
Etc.
You set up the requirements, and the AI will activate them automatically if the situations line up correctly. Alternatively, you could just tell your follower you want him/her to transform right now and they'll do it on the spot.
This would give you more cause to use these characters beyond simple RP, and allow them to bring their skills to the forefront.
It'd also be neat to see their abilities come into play in dialogue. With their heightened senses, it'd be nice if your followers occasionally mentioned that they heard/saw/smelled someone and would warn you of the danger.
Also, there should be more followers with these abilities than what we currently have. Various vampire and lycanthropic followers, each with different personalities and whatnot. Some just as beastlike in their human forms as when transformed, others much more meek and quick to run while normal, but more vicious when transformed.
Also, thought this mostly dealt with the transformations for VL and Lycanthropes, I'd like Volkihar and Cyrodiilic vampire followers included as well.
I feel this should be addressed. It doesn't make sense that your followers would refuse to transform, unless they have some moral stance against it. But even then, I think with a high enough speech check, you should be able to convince them to transform when they need to. A dialogue tree could facilitate setting the options for the AI to consider transforming, with various things such as:
Are we in a town?
Is it day or night?
What kind of enemy am I fighting?
Will transforming save my life?
Has the player character transformed?
Etc.
You set up the requirements, and the AI will activate them automatically if the situations line up correctly. Alternatively, you could just tell your follower you want him/her to transform right now and they'll do it on the spot.
This would give you more cause to use these characters beyond simple RP, and allow them to bring their skills to the forefront.
It'd also be neat to see their abilities come into play in dialogue. With their heightened senses, it'd be nice if your followers occasionally mentioned that they heard/saw/smelled someone and would warn you of the danger.
Also, there should be more followers with these abilities than what we currently have. Various vampire and lycanthropic followers, each with different personalities and whatnot. Some just as beastlike in their human forms as when transformed, others much more meek and quick to run while normal, but more vicious when transformed.
Also, thought this mostly dealt with the transformations for VL and Lycanthropes, I'd like Volkihar and Cyrodiilic vampire followers included as well.
I think there was so much opportunity lost with Dawnguard, all of this could have been included into the DLC, werebears for example, could have been introduced through Gunmar he just screams werebear. The wild werewolves could have been used for the true form of Lycanthropy and give the ability to infect the player with it allowing for forced lunar transformations. I hope Beth hears and listens to us and throws us a little something,something in the next DLC or as a separate smaller DLC along the lines of horse armor.
