Item Degradation : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:53 am

A lot of people dislike the abandonment of equipment maintenance as a gameplay mechanic/skill in Skyrim, their argument being that it removes depth. However, I really don't think this is the case. Repair hammers and the armor skill in past game added practically nothing to actual gameplay or character development. It was simply a prerequisite for the effective use of physical armor and weapons. For a warrior, it was never really a decision to use it or not, it was pretty much mandatory and the aspiring bandit slayer would stock up on cheap hammers as soon as possible, and that was that. Use and progression of the skill was an invariably static experience. Compare this to Fallout 3 and Fallout:New Vegas(I must give a shoutout to this games item health threshold, losing item effectiveness after 1 shot in F3 was just silly/maddeningly irritating), where repair is beautifully implemented, encouraging the player to scavenge and piece together their equipment. It added a dimension to the gameplay experience, something all skills should be required to do. However, since this sort of hobo repairman/mechanic savant style of gameplay may not suit the world of TES in quite the same way, I think the current implementation of Blacksmithing is preferable to the annoyance factor of the arbitrary armorer grind of previous installments.

No, just no.

Item degredation is an ancient gameplay mechanic used in RPGs, that I am beyond happy was left out of skyrim.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:41 am

Personally Im glad they scrapped it rather then putting in the prior games degradation/repair system. It was just too illogical. Ideally I would have liked it to have been taken a few steps further rather then scrapped. Maybe carry a stone and a hammer for minor field repairs while major repairs need to be purchased or done at a grinding wheel / workbench / forge.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:45 pm

or done at a grinding wheel / workbench / forge.

Which is exactly what I've been promoting since 11-11-11. There was no need to scrap the system altogether, but a change in how it was handled in previous games was necessary.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:40 am

i liked it when items degraded it did indeed ad depth to the game skyrim is too dumbed down in a lot of aspects not just this

besides i always took a spare weapon with me on my adventures just incase of breaking or i looted a weapon to get me by its only logical to do this.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:07 pm

....you know an interesting way to do it would be? That wouldn't "force" people to use it?

Have continued use of items gradually wear off the improvements made with Smithing. Like, over time, your Legendary sword wears down to Epic, then Flawless, then Superior, etc.

So for people who aren't Smithing, there's no "penalty" - your gear just keeps working. But if you're using Smithing to make your stuff "the best it can be", you need to maintain that.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:51 am

....you know an interesting way to do it would be? That wouldn't "force" people to use it?

Have continued use of items gradually wear off the improvements made with Smithing. Like, over time, your Legendary sword wears down to Epic, then Flawless, then Superior, etc.

So for people who aren't Smithing, there's no "penalty" - your gear just keeps working. But if you're using Smithing to make your stuff "the best it can be", you need to maintain that.

I could get along with that, but wouldn't it also need another revamp of how the smithing system works now? People who already use the smithing skill would now be using it (possibly) far more than they already do...which would mean they'd be levelling up that skill even faster.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:02 pm

I think differing grades of smithing tools makes more sense than "use it and lose it." Hammer, tongs, thick gloves, apron, files, leather cord, curved needles for leathers, and so forth in a kit or bag, upgrade as your skill increases. Novice grade would only be capable of repairing the most basic of armors and weapons, apprentice tools for apprentice level work, and so on. The kit might also be required for building the items in the first place, and if you don't have both the skill and the tools, no way you can create a legendary item, let alone repair it.

Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to implement.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:55 am

I liked using them in Oblivion, however I didn't miss my armor or weapons breaking in the middle of combat. I prefer the smithing system used in Skyrim.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:52 pm

I definitely miss having to repair armor and weapons. It could be that armor and weapons degrade a bit too quickly in Oblivion, but it did add some realism. Most games don't have that, and it gave the TES (and Fallout 3/NV) a nice dimension.

There are lots of other little things that got simpler. Like always being able to harvest an ingredient, instead of having a chance that it might fail.

My philosophy of game design is very simple: I want to be rewarded for actions I take, not punished for actions I do not take....

Then I guess you also don't like having to recharge enchanted weapons?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:35 am

....you know an interesting way to do it would be? That wouldn't "force" people to use it?

Have continued use of items gradually wear off the improvements made with Smithing. Like, over time, your Legendary sword wears down to Epic, then Flawless, then Superior, etc.

So for people who aren't Smithing, there's no "penalty" - your gear just keeps working. But if you're using Smithing to make your stuff "the best it can be", you need to maintain that.

This is the best idea for item degradation I've seen. It's a great idea - it also balances out smithing. Beth, include this in 1.7?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:42 pm

I only hated it in Oblivion because of the absurd rate at which gear would degrade.
If they fixed that issue, I'd have no problem with durability coming back.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:38 pm

I vastly prefer the current system to what was in Oblivion and Morrowind. I hope that it stays. I do also hope they make it better though.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:05 pm

No, just no.

Item degredation is an ancient gameplay mechanic used in RPGs, that I am beyond happy was left out of skyrim.

Yeah. All methods of item repair are just tedious micromanagement annoyances.

The best idea for repair i read was degrading item enhancements, but not degrading items. IE, upgrade a sword to legendary, and over time it will degrade back to its base form rather then break.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:41 pm

another way is to turn it on/off on settings.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:05 pm

If it is ever added back into the series, they really should include a damage threshold with durability at 50-80%. Stroke of genius in NV. And the rate of deterioration was ridiculous in Oblivion.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:42 pm

You lazy gits going on about how you hated to use repair hammers. AWWW. Hello, just loot another weapon of the same type? Easy. Let us who enjoy depth and immersion get something instead of letting Beth off with the streamlining. Cause I can bet the next round they'll take something away YOU liked. And really, with the advent of crafting weapons and armor how would degradation have been a pain to you? It would have provided a money sink and a REAL way to level smithing instead of grinding 1000 iron daggers in one go.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:00 pm

^If a mod could merge this post with the above please?

Edited to add: Constantly having to fill soul gems then use them to charge enchanted weapons is pretty much the same thing. So should THAT be taken out too?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:49 pm

hmmm maybe on basic items the last thing i want is a really good epic weapon or armour being broken .

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:45 am

I'd like a smith that can repair my weapons to full please. It's absurd to think that my Dunmer assassin who's all about the healing craft of Alchemy would partake in smithing. You know what? I have to though. If there were legit smiths who could repair my gear to full with nothing but gold, I'd be fine but those smiths don't seem to exist in Oblivion.

Edited to add: Constantly having to fill soul gems then use them to charge enchanted weapons is pretty much the same thing. So should THAT be taken out too?

Difference is that you can have fun killing things and you can charge it with one click of a button. Oblivion's system was buying repair hammers and clicking fifty times. That's not fun. Not to mention that enchanted weapons can be recharged by anyone. You don't HAVE to be an enchanter to trap souls. You can even find soul trap enchantment weapons in dungeons fairly often.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:40 pm

i liked it when items degraded it did indeed ad depth to the game skyrim is too dumbed down in a lot of aspects not just this

besides i always took a spare weapon with me on my adventures just incase of breaking or i looted a weapon to get me by its only logical to do this.

Well, one person's "adds realism" mechanic is another person''s "pointlessly annoying" mechanic ... may have nothing whatsoever to do with "dumbed down".

I didn't mind the Oblivion hammers but, I don't miss them in Skyrim. And realistically, how could you repair something in the middle of a dungeon with just a few hammers? So as it's phony to begin with, why have it?

I recently played FO:NV and found it really brought back memories re: item degradation that I hated in games years ago.

I wouldn't have a problem with a weapon degrading slowly over time or even, in the dragon flame blocked by leather shield example a previous poster made, perhaps being substantially "degraded" and having to repair it at a smithy.

But, I can live without that as well.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:27 am

Oblivion's system was buying repair hammers and clicking fifty times. That's not fun.

Have you done alchemy in this game and the previous titles? WAY more clicking, way more tedious, but since the end result is something that boosts your character no one seemed to complain...it seems whenever something exists to make your character more powerful the "click factor" is tolerated. Hmmmm.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:48 am

One man's "tedious micro-management" is another man's valuable roleplaying mechanic. That certainly won't stop Bethesda from taking even more away, though.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:02 pm

Yes once you had money you just bought all the repair hammers you needed and the skill was just this mindless chore you did at intervals.

Great post, I very much agree with the Fallout NV system being awesome.

How about this... bring back weapon degradation, get rid of hammers as a consumable item, make the process of decay much much slower (more realistic no?) and weapons and armor can only be repaired at an anvil and if you have a blacksmiths hammer (a "weapon" iem like the pick and wood axe), or you can just pay a smith to do it.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:26 pm

If they made it to where, say, an iron sword needs to be repaired using an iron ingot, leather strips, "mammoth glue" and "insert crafting item here."

If they were pretty durable then they could have it where you can only repair it at a forge/grindstone or pay a smith to fix it.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:13 pm

You was never forced into using it there were smiths in the game that repaired your gear for you if you did not wish to do it yourself. It's not like you had to repair your gear all the time it was only every so often and you had to watch your items condition. There was more meat on the system with that. It should have been reworked not ripped away. I want more and what we have now is obviously less.