Because of my playstyle I don't tend to have much use for followers, but Cicero I'll have tag along every once in a while just for the hilarious dialogue.

I let him live (this time around). I indeed did it because Lucien told me that the nightmother would not agree.

Sometimes thinking of still killing him. He is always in the way when i listen to the night mother.

Please. Cave his head in.

I'm always delighted when I get to kill a clown.

do not kill him, like stated above hes pretty much the only really dark brotherhood among the pretenders.

After having read his journals and having heard Lucien Lachance say that Sithis doesn't want him dead... I let him live. I don't plan on using him in combat anytime soon though.

Although... in his journal it did hint at some suspicious similarities between him and the Adoring Fan of Oblivion (though the years don't exactly add up).

"27th of Rain's Hand, 4E 187 Completed the Arena contract. I ultimately decided to pose as a starstruck fan, and immediately got into the Grand Champion's good graces. While escorting the arrogant fool through the Great Forest, I slashed his throat and left the corpse for the bears."

i would say kill him.. his armor is so cool ( %20 price reduce and %20 one hand damage etc.). but before kill, picpocket him and loot 500g first then u kill him and get 500g more i think Lydia is best companion (good at archery and looks hot in ebony armor set ) so who needs that crazy bastard cicero

Lucien Lachance told me not to, and that's all the motivation I need to never kill him.

Edit: You get the armor anyway.

I would say keep him alive.
Odds are he discovered the current leader betraying ya, like you learn later on.

I felt like I had been had by her after taking him out.

I wanted to kill Cicero until Astrid made me go to his room and find where he might have gone. I read all of his journals and I have come to respect him. He used to be a good assassin until everyone around him started dying, and theeeen he started hearing a jester he killed's laughs, and it drove him mad. Although you could kill him claiming
you were saving old Cicero from his madness.

He has to die, a character hasn't annoyed me so much since Oblivion and the "By Azura! By Azura! By Azura!"

Sacrifice if to Boethiah (is it possible?) The Dark Brotherhood needs better patronage that a fool old desiccated corpse.

That might explain his madness. He didn't know that the CoC had become an aspect of Sheogorath that merely faked his death only to reward him later with a curse

I let Cicero live. He never did anything to me and he even remembered when i helped him get his wagon fixed.

Cicero died by my hand.

Better he die in the employ of the Dark Brotherhood, standing up for his true beliefs than to die as a fool with no wits about him at a senile old age.

He died well considering the circumstances. I still hold high respect for his dedication to the Brotherhood all those years, but assaulting a member of the order is against the Five Tenets, so either way, if you're a true DB member or a 'new-age hippy' Astrid DB follower, you are obligated by the rules that the Brotherhood once followed to give him the death he deserves. I laid his body out J.C. style in front of the Mother to show how he died for the sins of the current Brotherhood. He is (in my opinion) the holy prophet of the Dark Brotherhood, he simply needed to die for the guild to survive as a whole.

He shall be a most dedicated follower in the afterlife.

He's to annoying to keep alive.

He didn't really break any of the Five Tenets, he didn't kill any member as it was just an assault like you said. He tried to kill Astrid and rightfully so as she had indeed broken one of the Tenets, namely "Tenet 1: Never dishonor the Night Mother. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis."

Assault with the intent to kill is usually perceived as a form of murder (attempted). Most people would still place this under the five tenets.

Also, he attacked and nearly killed another member of the Brotherhood, Astrid's werewolf husband, so even if this was in retaliation for dishonoring the Night Mother, he should have restrained himself to just Astrid. Not only that, but if he was truly concerned about the guild direction in the first place, he should have approached the Listener to discuss all the options available.

In my opinion, Cicero had been driven quite mad by his experiences with the previous Dark Brotherhood sanctuaries. He was a danger to himself and the Brotherhood, he needed to be put down for the greater good, regardless of what 'pleased' Sithis. He (the Night Mother rather) already chose me as the Listener, I think that gives me quite a bit of leeway over who resides in my sanctuary. If I recall correctly, Cicero was not named keeper by the Night Mother, but by the Black Hand. He may have been a decent keeper, but his preoccupation with the role of the Listener makes him unstable and dangerous.

I partly agree with you EJKnox. Him attacking the others however was to my understanding in self-defense. Also lets not forget that it was Cicero that on his own got the Night Mother to Skyrim, so without him "The Old Ways" may very well had died out completely. IMO that gives me enough reason to cut him some slack,

I agree with you as well, to an extent.

For the character I'm RP'ing though, he saw only one option to deal with Cicero.



On my next character though, she may simply see it your way (with some deeper more personal feelings towards Cicero). Ah the glory of role-playing!

Neither Astrid nor Arnbjorn followed the five tenets or the Night Mother, I see no reason why they should have been protected by them. As demonstrated in Oblivion (purification), less important tenets can be overridden by others. Even if Astrid and her followers were truly the Dark Brotherhood and not just a poor imitation, their disrespect of the Night Mother would warrant severe punishment. Cicero may be unstable, but his attacking Astrid for her blasphemy is completely understandable (given that being in a cult full of psychotic murderers is acceptable in the first place). He's the only loyal member of the Dark Brotherhood left, no wonder Sithis doesn't wish him dead.

This. He really is too annoying to let live.

This. He really is too annoying to let live.

Sure neither Astrid nor Arnbjorn followed the five tenets to the letter, however given the following tenets:

Tenet 1: Never dishonor the Night Mother. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Tenet 2: Never betray the Dark Brotherhood or its secrets. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Tenet 3: Never disobey or refuse to carry out an order from a Dark Brotherhood superior. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Tenet 4: Never steal the possessions of a Dark Brother or Dark Sister. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Tenet 5: Never kill a Dark Brother or Dark Sister. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

At the point where you have the choice to kill Cicero, there is nothing to suggest that the guild had not followed these tenets. In fact, it seems the only one the guild as a whole may not have followed exactly was #1, and to be fair once you became the listener, Astrid didn't seem too keen on disobeying the Night Mother's order to find the contact and subsequently fulfill the contract.


Aside from that, there are a number of other consequential bits to the story of Cicero himself. If you go through Cicero's journals, he seems to indicate he is no longer allowed to kill as his duty is now as the Night Mother's keeper. He directly supercedes this rule by taking up arms against his guild mates. Not only that, but the Old Ways seem to be destroying the guild (Skyrim's sanctuary is the only Dark Brotherhood organization left), a destruction in which Cicero's actions directly support.

Again, I could see myself going either way with this. Yes, Astrid was a blasphemer in the eyes of the Night Mother and Sithis, but to what true extent? Wouldn't Sithis have already stepped in by now to right the error of her ways instead of waiting until this was the final sanctuary? Maybe, maybe not. I took this as a sign on my first character that the survival of the guild as a whole should take priority, not the life of one ultimately inconsequential mad jester.

On my next character I plan to keep him alive as this will actively be part of my Vampire Battle-Mage's role playing tendencies.

As a Keeper he didn't get any more contracts, I dont remember reading it forbid him from killing, just that he wouldn't receive anymore contracts. The Brotherhood wouldn't function without the Night Mother, it would just be that one group under Astrid working and it wouldn't go anywhere since they have no one to hear the Black Sacrament, they would only hear about it through the graqevine which means contacting them will be difficult and take up a lot of time, in Skyrim atleast, as there is no way they could keep track of all of Tamriel.

It is unclear what almost destroyed the entire Brotherhood but I doubt it has anything to do with how the Old ways functions, as they followed them at their peak as well. About Sithis stepping in, he didn't during the questline in Oblivion neither, nor the Night Mother, even though she knew all about it she refused to "reward" them with that information forcing them to deal with it themselves. So I think it's the same thing here.