It is an improvement when it is not there. Anyone here experienced either that the game is becoming too easy after level 26(efficient levelers), or fluctuations in difficulty through level 25-50(non-efficient levelers). That part is all level scaling's work. The game provides static places only up to level 26. And we thought there would be level 30-40 dungeons. This is still as bad.

This is, I feel, the best way to handle difficulty and balance:

Most of the enemies have set levels of various intervals around the world, i.e. Wolves will only range from levels 1 - 5 say, but level 5 Wolves will be found in deeper parts of the forest while level 1 Wolves are found closer to towns.

Some enemies have a single set level no matter where you find them, i.e. it doesn't matter if you find a Spriggen in a swamp or in a forest hill, it will still be level 30.

Some enemies, and in this case the fewest, will always scale to the player at a set variance, i.e. Dragons will always be 3 levels higher than you, Dragon Priests will always be 5 levels higher than you, etc.

Along with that the world needs to be far more dangerous based on the difficulty, not only the difficulty of the game but also of the enemies you will be facing in a said area. For example, traps need to be far, far better hidden, much deadlier and come in far more variety. I never, ever feared the poison dart trap, not even at level 1. Why are there no null magic areas when creeping through a Dragon Priest lair? I don't think I've ever encountered a spike pit that I could actually plummet in to if I missed my jump.

I believe the difficulty needs to be set in three different ways rather than just the single slider; Enemies, which would scale their damage/armor, Intelligence, which would scale the AI and Environment, which would make the world a deadlier place.

I'll concede that there should have been higher dungeons in the game at the start. An argument could be made that there is actually level 50 static(ish) dungeons in the game. For example, Volkygge (I think) Has a level 50 Dragon Archpriest, and a Draugr Death Overlord in it no matter what level I've entered (as low as level 9). That's the exception, rather than the rule though.

I do think scaling has a place in these games though. The actual Skyrim outdoor cells for example, would be horribly boring with zero scaling. Dungeons should be static at least on the first clear, after that they can refill procedurally.

Rpgs were never meant to offer a real challenge: the challenge is usually to level up your character in order to be much stronger than your enemies, which takes time. Its a balance of reward and patience. Morrowind made you very powerful after getting to around level 20-30. When an expansion is added theres usually reason now to have more powerful enemies. I think the people that crave a reflex-like challenge and consider lack of it a major problem are the people that will eventually cause the downfall of the series. Bethesda will slowly turn ES into a brainless, reflex player skill action game

Uh... what RPGs have you been playing?

the game is balanced for adept, master isn't balanced for the player. That said i've never been one shotted by anything on adept, i've come damn close by not paying attention to the super-mancers that spawn. But just about everything else i can slay in about three hits with my level 50 warrior

That is a poor argument when other games do challenge without level scaling way better than Skyrim does with level scaling.
In fact it doesn't really feel challenging so much as it does cheap and annoying to be frank.

Example: I'm fighting this Falmer in Liars Retreat as it was the easiest spot to collect blood from. And while most Falmer put up the regular annoying challenge that only comes in their numbers the last one with the bow proved way more powered up. No problem I would be thinking had I not known Skyrim's loot scaling system all too well. When he dies I'm getting me epic loots or at least a bow that doesn't svck probably sell it for a pretty septim. Anyway I chip through his health and eventually after countless tries kill his sorry [censored]. Loot the body and quite litterally it was statistically impossible for him to do that much damage with the bow he had equipped even with all the skills maxed out and with the best arrows. I did the math can't remember it now but basically while one should would put me near death as I had not invested a terrible amount into health so I was no tank that he could only kill me in 2 shots only coming close to taking out my health but not quite there.

Now that isn't whining, that is some messed up stuff I encountered because of the level scaling nonsense where as if it was a traditional game with traditional levels then I would just have to shrug and say well can't visit here yet need X amount more levels or I need to focus more on Stealth or perhaps level my archery up more to counter his with stealth shots. Your basic RPG player strategizing which I find is completely missing from Skyrim because the enemies are ether too powerful or weak. Often creating odd difficulty spikes in between.

Aside from the fact I am completely against level scaling in an RPG like Skyrim I would say that the system needs some tweaking.

Draugr Deathlord (can Draugr Death Overlords also be archers?) with Ebony bow/ebony arrows should break 200 at armor cap, so 300 armor you're in one shot territory, unless you're absurdly stacking health. (meaning pure health at level 60+, with health enchants on top) They can come in pairs, and each can do a full Fus-Ro-Dah. (thankfully never seen both archers, but 1 archer-1 melee is scary, as the melee still hurts and is more likely to Fus-Ro-Dah you) I think "Draugr Deathlord" is simply a leveled Draugr, "Draugr Death Overlord" may be only boss level.

At level 40+ on master, at 360 health forsaken encampments can certainly wreck you, even at armor cap. I'm happy with this actually, if you try to take them on 1-2 at a time gradually you should be fine. Leveled briarhearts and ravagers dual wielding hit hard, and can attack simultaneously. Forsaken encampments occasionally have leveled archers (I think usually ravagers, and the bow/arrow combos aren't Draugr scary, but still) and can push 50+ health per arrow shot, at armor cap. Those arrows can come often, and with the briarhearts and ravagers charging you, that can be scary. Again, happy with this.

"Legendary" doesn't mean a lot on armor. Armor cap (80% physical damage reduction) is 567, magic resistance cap is 85%. If you're a lot lower than this on either, at only 360 health you can die fairly quickly to certain enemies (the main random ones have been mentioned), even if you're paying attention. Its been well documented the kill-cam shots ignore block (I guess 1.5 could have fixed it, haven't heard) and there's been rumors on it ignoring armor. When facing enemies who like to do single, big powerattacks (leveled melee Draugrs) be careful not to go toe-to-toe with them at 40% health when you seem to take 15-20% on a hit, there may be a glitch there.

lol!

i don't know how many times when i first started playing skyrim that i looted a body and said, wth, there's no way they could have been damaging me like that.

and, we know it's not like they were using any other skills, perks or powers.

I like it. I wander around all level 56 badass Dark Elf just murdering everything that is not an Ancient Dragon, and killing them reliably too, and I wander into some cave and some uber vampire just offs me. I am so pleased. She eats the Dremora Sanguine lets me use and kills me again. I get all serious and kill her ass and her master down the hall too, but wow, I was so pleased, first thing that killed me in ages.

Morrowind, the game that your avatar stars in, fallout, Numerous other rpgs that offer little to no challenge in later stages when your characters are leveled significantly. What rpgs do you play that consistently offer a challenge

Its not a problem with the game, its a problem with the user. Which is sad, because if the leveling system got any more basic the game would be a full on Action/slasher.

I've played nearly every Final Fantasy, Contact, Legend of Dragoon, Valkyrie Profile, Super Mario RPG, Mario & Luigi, Xenogears, many of the Atlus StratRPGs, a few Breath of Fires, a few Fire Emblems, one of the Dragon Warriors, etc, etc.

All of them have some challenge throughout the entire game.

Didnt mean for this to become a discussion about the Leveling system, but that's always a talk worth having.

BTW please remember that I usually can kill everything easily, but out of the blue I get 1 shotted here and there. i just find that inconsistent and somewhat annoying. Not in a true sense of the world, challenging.

I hope you aren't implying any other Bethesda game had a complex leveling system. If anything, Skyrim is the most advanced. Even Daggerfall boiled down to "Grind and be like everyone else".

And Daggerfall did Draconic language FURST AMIRITE?!!??!?!?!?

LEAVE DAGGERFALL ALONE!

In all seriousness though, I would prefer Skyrim with no level scaling at all. I'm using a mod for it right now and it works wonderfully.

I'm still up in the air on that call. New Vegas, the most recent "Non scaled" RPG is really boring from a combat perspective. In cases where they actually scale enemies, they blunder almost as bad as Oblivion. (Most notably, Old World Blues).

So I really have to take a non-stand, and say, properly designed, both options are equally viable, but neither option is truly the be-all end-all answer. The only thing I would really change in Skyrim, is have all NPC enemies non-scaled and named. Pretty much just ripoff Morrowind vanilla with a longer difficulty curve.

again, i'm no programmer, but, couldn't they have just kept it exactly as it is, but, continue to keep adding new enemies as the pc levels up?

the biggest problem is, obviously, that enemies stop leveling with our pc AND there are no new, high level enemies (with some scaling also) introduced as we continue to level.

i guess my question is: why did they stop by putting a cap on the enemy levels and combine it with no new enemies (with scale or without)??

Good question.

My pessimistic answer is: They got lazy.

My optimistic answer is: They were responding to complaints that players never felt like they "Got stronger".

This is not a thread to discuss the merits of an armor degrade system, but if the equipment you wear enables you to take less damage from attacks, it is call armor. Not "armor-like bonus", just armor. Any form of argument would just be sophistry.

As for the original topic, there is indeed a surprise spike in difficulty from the Ebony Bow Dragur and Brairhearts. They are both easily defeatable with paralyze if it helps. Their rewards, ebony bow and brairhearts, are relatively valuable if that is any consolation.

However your argument about the non-changing nature of combat simply means you have not used the expanded options available to you at higher levels. Namely spells and shouts.

Is this a problem?

You make bad decisions, you lose.

Is that not what games are all about?

They could not because:

1. They want to reserve a higher level rating for boss enemies. It will feel extremely silly to have to face Super Master Death Overlord and Uber Bandit Chiefs at 81 level. Why is Alduin supposed to be a threat again? Just send in a few 81 level Riften Guards.

2. Illusion spells if not adjusted, becomes suddenly unusable. If adjusted, becomes overpowered at low levels.

3. Expansions.

4. At 50 level, you should be 100 in 3 or 4 primary skills. You do not actually grow any more powerful even if you went ahead and grind out the rest of the skills to level 81. You just get more options. Should enemies continue to grow linearly, they actually grow faster than you do. That means you are relatively weaker at 81 than at 50.

While this would not be a problem for the Role-playing crowd, it will certainly displease the "Powergaming" (if such a word can be used for a single player game) or, as I would like to call it, the Perfectionist crowd.

I just don't like the extreme lengths bethesda went to just to scale Skyrim. The did scaling in Fallout 3, but just barely. Now it seems as if there's no incentive to level up if your enemies just get stronger.

they do get stronger. the problem is that the enemies either stop leveling or the game fails to introduce higher level enemies that only appear as the pc levels up.

the game becomes easy way too soon on master.

the problem isn't being unable to become all-powerful.

The author refers to these as "poor choices" in retrospect to the bad effects of level scaling since you will become incrementally worse if you don't powerlevel. I can write a book about the illogical effects of level scaling.

Without level scaling, "bad decisions" would stay and even amplify but instead they would be fair and logical.