I took quite a long break from Skyrim and just came back as I had a new PC installed (and kinda lost some of my savegames so I figured it was a good time to start over, with full graphics to boost).

I tried out heavy armors, dual wielding, twohanders, archery, sneaking et.c. when I played last.

Sort of figured I'd try out a mage this time around, but when I was playing last there was alot of discussions about magic, destruction in particular, being quite weak in comparison to straight up melee.

Is it still like this, or is magic actually a viable way to build now ?

I've only played a mage as far as level 6 previously, but I found the mana to drain too fast (even with 75% mana regen robe and the perks in the destruction tree to reduce mana usage) and the damage felt really inferior to simply picking up a two-handed axe and chop them down.

Would like to know if this has been improved at all before I start wasting(?) time into a build and character that will gimped.

Thanks.

Im the same as you, i havent played skyrim since december. although if you really do want to try out destruction, go download some mod or whatever that suits your taste.

It still doesn't scale whatsoever and nothing has changed about it, if you're asking if a patch changed anything.

Thanks... so basically, unless you mod it, building a character around magic is pointless.

Guess I'll stick to a regular hack'n'slash build with some accessory magic then.

Doesnt the cost scale downwards as the destro skill levels up? I gave destro a go but abandoned it fairly quickly, it was annoying to see Frost Trolls shrugging off firebolts which had previously knocked chunks out of them

Don't give up...Mage is awesome..just use enchanting get it up high then just enchant some boots, gauntlets, necklace, and a ring. Put some magica regen on them. Or reduce destruction costs. Also don't use Destruction alone. Use it with conjuration so you can summon some atronachs. Oh yea and bring a tank follower with you. Doing all this you'll be fine

Meh, destruction magic is only for annoying enemies until you get close enough to hit them with something. Trying to kill other than pre-fixless enemies with it is a waste of time. Cloaks are somewhat useful even when you get melee range though.

Well, I wouldn't say pointless. Sure, Destruction is alot weaker than it should be...BUT...I still have much more fun on my mage character than I do with any melee characters, even without proper scaling and lack of spell making. He's currently level 37 with Enchanting 100, Destruction 81, Illusion 76, Alteration 76, Conjuration 57, Restoration 56, and Sneak/Speech leveled to the 50s. On Master Difficulty, Expert level Destruction spells alone are making quick work of enemies. I do, however, expect that to change when all my skills are around 100 thus making my level higher, so we'll see how that goes. Incinerate does 100 damage per cast though, so it can't be all that bad.

Destruction?
It's a bit challenging, but not too much.
Use conjuration to compensate!

I never found anything wrong with Destruction. Choose good Perks, keep building your mage at each step/level and you'll be fine.

This this this!

destruction as the only source of dmg still svcks, yes.

The thing is if you use it all by itself then yea it's a bit weak. But use it along with conjuration. Summon some atronachs revive corpses. Maybe even use illusion. Doing all this and you'll be completely fine

Destruction is easy if you use enchanting and alchemy. You just have to manage magicka intelligently until you can get your enchanting up and have access to fortify destruction gear. It is entirely possible to beat any situation with just flames, sparks, and frostbite. The big advantage destruction has over melee is the range. Anyone can take down a room full of ebony sword wielding Draugr Deathlords in master difficulty completely naked and not have anything in the inventory, knowing just flame spell. It's just time consuming.

If you find destruction difficult, you can make it easier by using various degrees of enchanting and alchemy. Check out the guide made by famousjerky last week.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1373031-an-in-depth-guide-to-making-an-awesome-destruction-mage/page__fromsearch__1

Another useful guide is the complete character design freedom thread.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1342463-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-10/

Some people have problem with the way magic is implemented in Skyrim because it's different from other games. I personally don't have this problem. Some people find magic too boring in Skyrim, and the solution to that is simple, to not play mage in Skyrim.

One of the common complaints about destruction magic in Skyrim is that it does not gradually get stronger as your skill goes up. I personally find it unnecessary and don't like that idea, but there are several mods that do that. One I have looked at is Balanced Magic on nexus. http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=2275

This^ is the answer. You just have to accept that enchanting needs to be an integral part of the build. But I'd only go with reduced casting costs because regen doesn't work in combat. It only works outside of combat, which is lame beyond what words can describe. When you can get to about 75% reduction costs then you can really have a lot of fun with Destruction. Get to 100% and you're unstoppable.

My only gripe left with Destruction is that your ability to cast area spells is severely limited if you have a follower. You can even kill yourself with the Master level spells.

As far as it not scaling, it's okay because of the dual-cast stagger perk--------but that's only viable if you have dramatically reduced your casting cost via high level enchanting.

It has its drawbacks and could have been done so much better. But with effort (effort not required by any other skill) you can play Destrution on Master and become OP just like any other build. As a matter of fact, once you have 100% reduction and the dual cast perk, it's hard to get killed by anything because you can continuously stagger even the biggest, most high level of enemies with just the Firebolt spell. It's awesome at first but can become boring quickly thereafter.

There isn't a problem with destruction damage, the problem is the cost of adept/expert/master spells. If your making a cloth mage, you can play the game fine without enchanting due to fortify destruction items you can find, master robes 22% peerless circlet 25% and peerless ring 25%, combined with the perk that's enough for continual use of high level spells (the earlier spells aren't to bad cost wise).

If you are making a warrior/assassin, you also don't need enchanting as you can find high tier items of peerless destruction 25%, helmet and chest plate (daedric, dragonplate or dragonbone) combined with the ring of peerless 25% for a decent enough reduction. But these high tier items with the specific random enchantment are incredibly rare (the items are v.rare to find, even more so with the right enchantment). But you can just use enchanting if you don't want to search for your items, I quite enjoy looking for better gear but I imagine others don't.

The sad fact is you have to use fortify destruction enchantments at high levels, on loot or made via enchanting as the cost of the higher level spells is so huge, but I repeat the damage is more than enough even for master.

You're better off ignoring people saying it's weak, playing the game for yourself with what I've said above in your mind depending on your character, I've used destruction on quite a few characters (on master from the start, always) and I much prefer it to archery.

Even with using a mod that makes Destruction damage scale with skill it is just weak compared to weapon damage. I can kill it by dual casting four fireballs, or with two normal hits or one power attack with an improved axe

I think it is unchanged since the last time you played for the most part.

All by itself, destruction is too weak IMO. But mixing destruction and melee can be effective and fun.

And, in any event, I can only shoot so many fire balls before I start to really miss hacking at someone's face with a huge metal weapon...But maybe that's the ADHD talking.

I've had no trouble with a pure Destruction mage.

'Pure' as in, the only skills I levelled were Destruction and Alchemy, along with a tiny bit of Sneak early on and a tiny bit of Enchanting.

But I never actually ended up using Enchanting to get cost-reducing gear. I found a couple of items that got my costs down by around 27%. That was it.

And, contrary to popular belief, I didn't need to spam Alchemy for Fortify Destruction potions, either. In fact, I made so many of the damn things and never ended up using them, so I ended up storing the extras.

Destruction hasn't changed since the game was released, no, but it was and is a viable source of damage. Even without Enchanting and Alchemy abuse.

It's true that Destruction alone doesn't do as much damage as smithed, enchanted weapons. If that's what you want to do, knock yourself out. Personally, I find the balance of Destruction to be just about right, and the uberness of melee to be a little ridiculous. The argument that Destruction is broken because I can one-shot an ancient dragon with upgraded, enchanted maces doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You really want to one-shot everything in the game? Sounds pretty boring.


Edit: I see a lot of people claiming that Destruction is weak 'by itself'. I think the opposite is actually true. Destruction is stronger if that is your primary focus. If you start spreading yourself thin, working up 6 or 8 skills, then you will see your Destruction spells do relatively less damage since the spells' damage is static, whereas the enemies' health increases as you level.

In other words, using a sword and destruction you will eventually start to think, 'Why bother with Destruction?' because of the level scaling. Using Destruction as your primary skill, however, is fun, rewarding, and a nice challenge.

Are any of the other kill skills viable for dealing out damage only by relying on ancillary crafting skills?

Why should Destruction be so?

Archery, twohanded, onehanded, they all get better with crafting skills.

Destruction... it requires them to be useful in the first place.

I'm not talking about minmaxing 'till you get a four figure base damage and a three-figure enchantment damage via crafting abuse... I'm talking basic use.

I see "Use crafting skills!" as a poor answer to Destruction's lackluster killing power.

The sad thing is... it is really easy to set it up so Destruction damage scales directly with Destruction skill. Mighty Magick does it. Beth just didn't.

But MadCat, you're mistaken. Crafting skills are not necessary to use Destruction effectively. I don't need to get 100% cost reduction to use Destruction. I get by just fine with the rewards/loot I find in the world.

Just as a melee character would no doubt use an enchanted sword if he found it, I see no problem with a Destruction mage making use of a Circlet of Lesser Destruction or something similar that he comes across. No crafting needed!

Me neither.
I think they might've 'underpowered' it slightly so it's actually challenging to use

Destruction is not underpowered.

Destruction by itself is fine on Adept, but you will need some cost reduction enchantments by the time you reach higher levels. Archery, two hand, one hand need the same on adept to really be effective at higher levels. Now on expert destruction doesn't pump out enough damage, and enemies can take a bit longer to kill... but you are playing on expert, that is the point. Master is hard, you will need to use alchemy to buff destruction, but then again... it is master. What do you expect? I don't think destruction is underpowered. You just need a lot of enchantments... which the same can be said for other offensive skills. Destruction is right where it should be.

The other offensive skills do a whole lot more damage and end up making the game easy even on master... not because they are overpowered.... but because Smithing + enchanting is. Smithing + enchant is too powerful, not that destruction is too weak.

Destruction just seems weak because it only benefits from enchant, and not enchant and smithing. Plus the enchant bonus deceases cost instead of increasing damage which would make more sense to me. If you played a warrior and never improved a single weapon or armor you would likely have the same complaints about one hand or two hand that people have about destruction.

If that were the only issue, then you might have a point. But it's not. To go along with that big difference, spells don't scale with your character's level. Physical attacks do. Your spells get left behind as you advance. It's only natural and expected for the strength of (any) attack or defense to rise with your level. This, more than the enchanting/smithing synergy, is what makes destruction a poor investment longterm.