Even without using smithing, it's easier than putting the same amount of effort on destruction. Remember, my redguard uses conjured weapons. No smithing or enchanting with them. And I wasn't even talking about using smithing or enchanting, but the generic enchanted bows you find. None of my characters have touched smithing and I demolish stuff on my archers with bows I've looted. There are fewer ways to directly improve destruction without exploits, especially a higher levels.

*Destruction is weak. Not all the magic

Yes. Yes to your signature as well.

Magic in this game is not weak besides destruction and the lower level spells becoming completely useless. It is however rather one dimensional and it simply offers less than past iterations if this game series. Spell creation gave us a powerful tool to combine compatible spells and create effects that worked for our characters and that allowed to to get more out of roleplaying with our characters. Then there is the lack of variety that the other spells offered I would like a bunch of Morrowinds and Daggerfalls spells in this game.

at yours pointing out the Altmer height problems

Very yes

Thanks haha. Go and bump that thread if you want. It's an issue that needs to be fixed.

Lol yes that us annoying bug that should be simple bug fix.

The mages magic is more powerful than your especially their destruction magic. I've been one and two shot by enemy mages I have no idea how many times.

I've had the feeling destruction is underpowered for a while, since I typically only play mages into levels over 50. I'm beginning to think Otheral's position is more or less right: too one-dimensional without spell creation (or spell combos).

It's not that destruction is broken due to generalized lower damage output than melee, per se, it's more that there are only six spells that really work as they should at higher levels: the expert bolt-type spells and the master spells (and the latter have their own special drawbacks with uninterrupted casting time required). The remaining 18 spells either stop being useful at higher levels or useless at any level.

For me, what seems undeniably broken (other than lacking strong destruction staves to complement destruction skill--we need this, Beth!) is the following:

• Runes: don't benefit from any kind of scaling or even the relevant augmentation perks, so their damage is capped at 50. This means they become useless around level 25
  
• Cloaks: useful perhaps for hybrid players or battlemages but useless for pure mages; the damage output is too low given the spell's limited (melee) range; engagement at this range is generally unhealthy for glass cannons.
  
• Walls: damage output isn't what it's claimed to be (the in-game description is 50 dps but in reality it's closer to 24, and can't function as an effective, buffed spray-type spell similar to the novice spells); rather it creates a minuscule patch of damaging area on a floor, something that won't hit the enemy more than once in most contexts

Essentially, they got rid of touch spells (I didn't mind this really--the physical action always looked awkward) and added three new damage-delivery modes for destruction--runes, cloaks and walls. I'd love this except they're all broken due to low damage, one way or another. This leaves many of us who RP upper level pure mages just spamming expert bolt-type spells, which is boring, whether it's 'adequate' damage or not...

(Console player)
stupid destruction damage output. I feel strange when you try to create a powerful warlock that ends dancing dodging atacks form a troll at level 40 because your expert spell (it supose to has a respetable damage like 125 or something like this) is crap and demands a huge amount of magic (2.2 damage by 2.8 consumtion its the mother of unbalances) . And this impact perk is just the worst way to give some of advantange to a mage that i have seen ever. Impact is more for monk classes which approach their speed to spam repeatedely weak hits till the critical one.
SPAMING WEAKS PROJETILES TO THE DEATH IS NOT PROPER TO FANTASY GENRE MASTERS OF THE ARCANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want this:
Fortify Destruction Damage Enchantament.
Penalization for using armor.
Spell Making or at least scaling all spells.
More than shock , fire and frost destruction spells.
NPCs witch hunters.
Capacity to do astronomical damage with master spells simultaneosly an extremly weak time in which i can be one shoted.

I don't see how having to cast a thunderbolt spell then instantly pacify your enemy so you don't die is balanced.

This. Destruction is useable, but it should be more than something that's just useable, mostly as a backup. It just isn't able to compete with other damage skills when you put the same amount of time into both.

Yeah, looking at the "wall" spells on UESP, I discovered this:
Wall of Storms
Expert 725 145/s Sprayed on the ground, it creates a wall of lightning that does 50 points of shock damage per second:
Constant cast on ground (each impact lasts for several seconds)
Wall of Storms, 8 pts for 1 sec

Despite saying it does 50 points per second, the player version of the spell does only 8 damage per second, yet somehow an ascended necromancer two shotted killed me 4 times when he used frost wall, which has the same issue. Last I checked I didnt have 16 health points

I think the magic is quite powerful if you set up your mage well.

How did you measure it and what difficulty setting were you in when testing this?

This is what it said on the UESP, and the npc damage killed me in two hits on apprentice.

Edit: I never said I was good at this game! Haha

The point is true thieves are against killing and would rather not do it unless it's a last resort. "This isn't the Dark Brotherhood," et cetera.

Have you met a thief? If we're talking about The thieves guild in oblivion you're 100% correct, but thieves in general? Not so much. Even the guild in skyrim lets you kill robbery targets sometimes. Killing is just bad for business because it draws attention to yourself. If you notice, there's nornally a business related reason not to kill someone in the skyrim thieves guild, not a moral one

Edit: Anyway, let's not get too off-topic haha

want a spell which breaks the game?? lol all you need is a good sneak and illusion skill, get the silent casting spell and use the highest form of fury spell while hiding in the shadows, now its like the arena from oblivion... watch people slaughter each other, only diffence is you sweep in when there is a last man standing and finish him, easiest way to clear a heavily guarded area, and also amusing to boot

I have found that magic is the most under powered when looking at damage spells. Its not the spells themselves but the cost of each one. If you get enchantments that lower the cost then the destruction school becomes really formidable since you can spam spells. BTW all the master level spells are a joke except the fire one, but they all look amazing. Also has anyone noticed that the lightning spells can curve around objects slightly to hit the targets or am I just seeing things?