Is magic still very weak has it ever been buffed in a patch?

Magic is not weak, if you approach it correctly.

I think it is safe to think we all know what he is referring to.

Magic isn't weak. It just requires patience and skill.

You also need to use two different magic skills. One will not get by with only destruction. Could a thief only get by with archery, could a warrior only get by with one-handed?

Yes.

Magic isn't weak. Destruction is weak, and yes it still is. If you're on PC I suggest you get the Magic Scaling mod.


Yes they can. Especially the Thief with Archery. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Suggestions? Since I tried it and it is very weak until you get to higher levels of it. Pure mage with dagger at lower levels is a sure way to get killed since you can burn ALL of your mana just killing one opponent.

How would that thief steel anything without sneak?

He would kill the man with his bow, then take their stuff

Mage characters are always challenged at lower levels in TES games. It has always been that way. Thieves too, if you play a pure one (one who avoids violence as their targets are property, not people).

You have to change how you play your character if they are always getting killed, use different tactics, up some of your skills, get some training, add to your mana at level ups, use the Atronach Stone or other Mage benefiting stones and enchantments. However, one school of magic will not get you through this game, you need a couple of them, at least.

Really? No armor skill at all? Simply only use archery to fight enemies like the

You don't realize how powerful fully specced Archery is do you?

Pretty much feasible.
My hunter character (Archery, Light Armour, Alchemy) gets hit once in a week by anything, not using sneak or poisons.

Currently I have an archery skill of 90 and Light armour of 25.I recently started engaging in melee combat, just to be able to level my armour skills up. I'd show you a screenshot, but no such thing on the 360.

paralyze but it feels cheap and dirty

Fair point. Original point being made, mages require a little more work and diversification.

Yep.
And I think it's much more satisfying to combine illusion conjuration and destruction, than spamming firebolts all day long.

I think it is a little harder but nothing serious.

I have a Dunmer assassin mage who specialises in destruction and illusion. I've deliberately kept him from touching any melee style weapons other than the use of light armor and I've deliberately kept him from conjuration. (I have a Breton mage who specialises in conjuration & alteration - robes. I also have a Redguard with sword & shield who wears Hammerfell garb with alteration so I wanted something different. I'll probably end up eventually making an Altmer all-out mage).

You will need health potions when up against too many enemies or higher ranking opponents but then that is the same with melee combat. I'm only about level 25 with this character but I'm hoping the destruction magic will end up be fatal. I dual hand fire or ice. Ice I think may be a bit stealthier when sneaking. I use illusion to sneak. Its a shame that the invisible spell stops the second you caste an icebolt.

Archery needs no other skills AT ALL. You can walk around naked and one shot anything you see with only 50 points and about 4 perks in Archery.

Using that as a guide, a mage should get by on one school of magic only, it shouldn't need two or three different talent trees.

Impact + magic cost reductions will really help if you're going destruction.

I've played alot of archers but they all needed something else other than just archery to get buy,especially at higher levels.
Stealth,smithing or alchemy is almost always use for most everyone that plays an archer,you don't need all three but you do need one of them.

That said conjuration and illusion are both very good stand alone magick skill,as good as archery is alone.
But as with archery conjuration and illusion are both complimented with other skills such as alteration,destruction or restoration.

I'm not belittleing archery by any means here but you really do need more than just archery to get by.
Just the same as you need more than one magick skill to get by.

I think a Mage is more fun because you get to switch between schools. People talk about destruction being underpowered, but if you use impact it more than makes up for it, then people will say that spamming destro is boring, well than use other schools. The way I see it one of the advantages to being a mage is that you can switch between illusion destruction conjuration restoration and alteration seamlessly. You don't have to use all of those, but I have found the Mage to be the most fun playstyle

Destruction still doesn't scale and is weaker than it should be at higher levels. Entry level spells become totally useless. It could use some work. The rest of magic is fine. Conjuration and especially Illusion are overpowered. My current Mage is Conjuration/Illusion with sneak and is more powerful than my Thief/Assassin against multiple enemies. My thief can one shot almost anything but my Mage can clear out an entire fort in a few seconds.

Conventional Wisdom is that Destruction is weak, that it should be used in conjunction with other magic. Some people say that Destruction is useless without 100% Fortify Destruction cost reduction.

I would like to disagree with these opinions and assert that Destruction is quite strong all by itself. If you use just Destruction and nothing else, you will have a fairly powerful character by the time you reach level 10, and an unstoppable character by the time you reach level 20. If you focus on Destruction, you will realize that you do not need any other skill. You do not need Conjuration, despite popular opinion. It may make the game easier, but you don't need it. You do not need followers. It maybe nice to have them in the beginning, but no you do not need them. You do not need armor because you do not get hit. You do not need alteration, because you do not get hit. You do not need restoration because you do not get hit. Well, you get hit occasionally. If you get hit, you can heal yourself with potions or use the basic healing spell. If you play this style, the only skill you will advance other than Destruction is probably Speech, because you will sell your loot at the stores and buy potions and accessories, and maybe some Sneak, because you tend to sneak to position yourself before blasting them away or run away hide to recover your magicka. And Lockpicking. Because you pick locks.

How to play: Kill everything with destruction magic, mostly fire. Sometimes you will find uses for Frost and Shock. Against Dragons and Mages, mostly. Dark Elves have 50% resistance against fire. Take every perk in Destruction as they become available and nothing else. No crafting. That means you do not get to enchant, or make potions, or make or improve armor. No nothing else.

How to use concentration spells correctly: In the early game you will use flame/frost/shock spells a lot. They may come in useful later in the game also, but really you shouldn't need to use it later. Use short bursts, not long streams. They do same amount of damage and same dps whether you use long stream or short bursts. But short bursts are much much more efficient in using magicka.

About Dualcasting: Dual casting does 10% more damage for 40% more magicka consumption. If you are in a situation where you have to worry about magicka, use dual casting sparingly, to stagger your opponent. You can use two handed casting instead of dual casting by pressing one mouse button slightly after the other instead of pressing both down at same time.

Recommended Difficulty Setting: Adept. Destruction without enchanting is often about managing your magicka supply. And magicka consumption is greatly affected by difficulty setting, because you need magicka to kill things. If you change difficulty setting from Adept to Master, you will find that suddenly you need to dramatically change the way you play so you do not run out of magicka. You will need to switch to weaker spells to make your damage more magicka efficient. You will find that 400 magicka is not enough, you will need 800. On the other hand, mages specializing in conjuration is not affected much by the difficulty setting, because difficulty setting does not change the balance between your summons and your enemies.

Meaning if you use exploits such as zero cost magic, right? TBH, I think the only school that really stinks is destruction. In it's current state, it's mostly useless unless you use exploits. Unfortunately I doubt that Bethesda will ever do anything to fix it. Hopefully in TES 6 they will correct some of their (IMO) worst mistakes they made with Skyrim (Sorry, I'm not interested in getting into what, as it will only derail the thread)