Pretty sure enemies stop getting any stronger at around level 50. Thus, a player can in theory, after enough time have around 30 some levels worth of perks and additional statistics over the strongest enemies in the game.

The game world is really designed with level 1 - 50 player characters in mind.

Haven't played a mage yet, but for stealth and warrior characters I've noticed that once you get up to level 30 - 40 on Master, there are still some challenging areas, but you begin to encounter fewer and fewer dungeons and enemies that are higher level than the PC. Most of the dungeons are lower level than the PC at that point.

A review of the prima guide indicates there are very few level 50+ enemies. Giants are level 32, for example, and the toughest area bosses seem to be around 40s or low 50's. I'm not sure exactly how scaling works for dragons that you encounter or Alduin - perhaps they scale more precisely to the PC's level.

Does anyone know what the "balance issues" are which Beth are working on then? There must be some.

Thought as much. Thanks

yep, and also boredom issue

I think the issue is the multi-level perk
they should have given us more perks per level, for the sake of variety
but tone donw the multi level perks a lot

the worst is by far dual wieldeing
but archery is bad too, but it would not be as bad if the dragon ai didn t svck so much
dragon can t even figure out I got 100% frost resist (which is another dumb thing)

I think the game is missing a whole lot of diablo style challenge for high level.
more monster variety through mini-bossing and giving them special perks

it should be the monsters having some full immunities, not me
with good enchant on boots and shield you already max out 2 resists
race + potion will max out a third
and zero cost on destruction and restoration turn the rest into a joke

I think not requiring anything but enchantment to create enchantment was a bad move
there was something to be said about *knowing the relevant spell* and *mastering the relevant magic skill*
as a way to slow down your enchantment mastery

there is a lot in the game that could have been done better

I m also starting to have a feeling there should be a war with the thalmor and I should be building my own faction
and force the imperial fools and stormcoak scum to get more mature and realize the two problems we are facing
(the dragons and the thalmor)

I really don t see what s the point in us supporting a clown like ulfric, or an usurper to the throne of tamriel,
who in the end is little more than a conqueror and a clown, not a descendant of the septim or an elected consul or something

we should be setting up some sort of council of elders and maybe establish a form of democracy out there,
like the old roman republic - most citizen seem a lot wiser than the clowns in charge (the jarls)
I bet the argonian at the bee and barb would run riften better

the game doesnt even allow us to do anything about the black briar or the corruption

same goes in markath with the silver blood and the canibal
the game actually punish us if we try to get rid of the canibal
by not replacing those essential merchants
(from the player point of view)

I mean, it s not like the player lack the fund to get any poor guy from the warren,
let s say degaine for example, not the best example but better than the canibal,
purchase arlif and son, and let him run it, or just let the assistant of the shop run it

in other word they should have seperated TASKS from NPC definition
to make it a real living world. and if need be, create new characters by editing a dead one,
renaming it, resurecting it and giving it a task
that would represent new npcs immigrating

not like the cities are big in the first place !!!

the dungeon are hugue and could be verry interesting if all that challenge thing was taken care of,
and if we had enought perk so we are not stuck in a rut using the same skill over and over
which really get tedious

only thing that isn t tedious and keep me going is stealtg, exploring and sightseing

but I which some things didnt get broken
like food is now totaly useless and I dont even cook anymore
BUT IT WAS FUN
how hard is it to define it in such a way that it stay usefull
it could be for example, similar to blessing
long lasting enchantment with tiny effects

also just like previous tes, I find it verry unimersive that we don t need to sleep
we should gradually get more tired, eventually start yawning, slouching, visibly look tired
vision get slowly more blurry and you start yawning more often...
and if you are really dumb and don t head up all those warnings for over 16 hours
then you fall asleep helplessly in front of a dragon or just in the middle of the road

I think sleep would be a big plus.
as would eating. I mean, now that I stopped cooking, I should be starving.
and I never drank anything either

there are some aspect that are there, yet not there at all
in daggerfall, the need to regenerate magika forced you to sleep
because potions, as I recall, were not really availlable
there was an alchemy system, but I barely ever used it

the potions in skyrim are way overpowered, even worst than diablo II
you can have an endless suplly of them and they regenerate your full health
wich mean you rarely risk anything ever... just drink another potion

instead, the potion should just give a non stackable regeneration boost
that would at least force you to use restoration and to run from the fight
which is what happen in real movies

I mean Lord of the ring, the balrog scene, everyone but gandalf fled
and latter on merry and pippin get captured, the company get split
that s what EPIC is all about, stuff happen.
there is no heroism without a challenge.

in skyrim, in the end, it feels like we are just a bully, and nothing we do matter at all
we can be on all sides at once, randomly serving daedra and divines
and the guards know if we serve sithis ... ridiculous
(i saw that one from someone else saved game, I never played assassin myself)

there is not even an option to thwart the daedra, defile their altar, banish them, arrest their followers....
actually ... do something ... on our own agenda

a good example is ancano in winterhold
I just want to be allowed to .... do something ... when it need to be done ...
we see mjoll complaining but are never allowed to do a thing ....
and most of the thieves in the ratway seem more heroic than villain
yet at some point villainous thieves spawn in the city
and here is the absurdity ... the guards, and even the black briar, maven herself ... attack those thieves
absurdity at its best. we KNOW from the quests than maven black briar, the jarl, the guards and the thieves are working together
so why the absurdity ....

Another thread about Master Level being too easy? There are two on the first two pages alone:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1327473-the-computer-is-a-cheating-bastard-why-master-difficulty-is-stupid/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1328328-problems-with-difficulty/

But I guess they are sufficiently different

In my experience, Master level can be easy most of the time even at lower level against typical enemies. However it can be very very difficult against higher level enemies like Bandit Chiefs, Fire Mages, Chaurus Reapers, etc.

I have a character now at level 42. And I think at this point he has "turn the corner" and things are getting pretty easy on Master, even against most higher level enemies. He uses but doesn't abuse smithing, some basic alchemy with no perks, no enchanting. He is a heavy armor, two handed warrior with some archery and sneak.

But as mentioned above the game isn't really designed for very high level characters. And I doubt that will be "patched" because it really isn't broken. If you are at a high level, the game should be easy for you. That's the point of being at a high level.

People had exactly the same complaints about Morrowind. So they "fixed" that in Oblivion, where the world changes dramatically with your character. So at high levels you had enemies like Goblin Warlords with insane amounts of health. And you never saw lower level enemies. And people hated that. So they took it out and so we're back to the exact same Morrowind complaint.

The only other way I could see to address the problem is to not allow the Player Character's power to vary so much. At level 40 you are vastly more powerful than level 1. That is unrealistic and difficult to balance.

Balance in a game like this appears phenomenally difficult because there are so many kinds of characters, and so much variance in level.

So right now at Master I believe that low to mid levels are balanced pretty well for most character. Higher levels get easy even at Master, as they should.


Despite all the threads about Master being easy, and this being overpowered and that being underpowered. I think the game is very balanced.

And if Bethesda patches balance they will likely break something else. And will get rightly and severely criticized by those that like the game as it is.

So it is very unlikely Bethesda will alter the game balance, in my opinion.

They kind of tried that in Fallout 3. Same complaint, at high levels the game is easy (even at lower levels). And at the same time people had the completely contradictory complaint of wanting to get to even higher levels. So Bethesda released a DLC that increased the level cap and added monsters with insane health. That kind of broke the game as a RPG. Since at high levels all characters had basically the same capabilities, and the monsters just took longer to kill and were tedious.

So let's hope Bethesda doesn't "fix" this game, in that way.

for everyone that feels skyrim is too easy then the challenge really becomes playing a dead is dead character on master without smith/enchant/alchemy.

That's a good idea but i was thinking wouldn't the game be more fun on master if you upgraded different things as you level up effectively leveling up everything making an all round character? I can see that being a challenge... Level up magika,health and stamina simultaneously and doing the same with the perks and their different respective trees.? You would have to alternate type of weapons every few parts of the game or so that you pass?
Not forgetting you could limit picked up supplies so you only carry a set amount of so and so as you play through.

In my case, if I'm not dying and reloading frequently, I don't enjoy the combat as much. It's rewarding to finally get through a tough challenge after dying many times.

If I were to play dead as dead, either it would not be challenging enough, or I would die so many times that I would never survive beyond the first couple of battles.

As for smithing, enchanting and alchemy, I've found it to be more enjoyable if you only develop one of these crafting skills rather than all three, and in the case of smithing I try to limit it to crafting or improving items that my PC or follower will actually use (as opposed to crafting 100 iron daggers, for example).

I am at Level 42 and get 1-shotted with the quickness. I am playing a High-Elf Mage (on Adept) with 200 armor (Alteration spell only) and about 240 health. The game is not easy for me at all. I peek around a corner at an archer to take a shot at them and I catch an arrow to the mush, leaving me very dead. I have to back away from any melee character or else my head will be neatly removed for me if I run out of room.

How are things so easy for everyone else??

I played up to level 45 with my thief/archer character. I didn't put any points at all into health or armor perks (100 health, armor rating probably around 150 or so by that point).

I was still one shotted occasionally, as my health was realtively low. However, I noticed that there were fewer and fewer challenging areas. This is as it should be, since the game world was designed with level 1-50 characters in mind.

I put all of my points into stamina, which was quite high by that time, and I was able to use Steady Hand perk to take out large groups of advancing enemies. There were still some challenging enemies here and there, but most were quite easy to dispatch using either archery or stealth dagger backstabs.

You quoted me, and I'm completely the wrong person to quote on this!!

Because I've been pushing back on everyone that says Master is easy. I just don't believe it. Because up until recently at level 42 it seemed I could be one-shot killed in every dungeon I went into.

Fire Mages, Bandit Chiefs, that "Imperial Legion" Orc that demands money, Chaurus Reapers, etc,etc could kill me in one shot.

It is just at level 42 with tons of health and maxed armor do I feel that I'm not being one shot killed frequently. but it still happens if I let my guard down. For example at level 40 I wanted to run from Solitude to Whiterun quickly. By surprise I ran into a Chaurus Reaper in the marshes and was killed almost instantly with it's poison.

So mrhumble1, I sympathize. The game can be hard. I started playing on Master because others were saying it was so easy. And after playing for a while on Master, I just don't believe it's easy. Right now I kind of turned the corner because of armor rating and pouring tons of points into health. And the character I have is much easier than the character you have. In my opinion you are not doing anything wrong. The game is just balanced.

i'm going to assume that those who have rendered the game easy on master have done a lot of leveling up and/or use of smith/enchant/alchemy before even going out and adventuring.

Honestly, this game lost its charm when I reached level 35-40, and being so dumbed down the game isn't really any fun starting over with a new char. I guess I will go back to New Vegas while the mods are in the works.

are you saying that the combat of beth games is why you play them? and, once too powerful you don't enjoy the world?

2 mods help me a lot to get hard game at Master (40+ now):

PISE - Improved Skyrim Experience
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1269

Spekky Bandits Overhaul
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3869

Yea, ive felt this way too. At least until now, being lvl 37 on adept with lots of perks in archery(the slow time perk is dirty), one handed/dual wielding, sneak and just started adding perks to enchanting. With basic enchants im kicking a lot more ass faster. I waited till like 2 lvls ago to get the slow time perk, and now wreck a room with the bow before they find me. Aura whisper helps a lot with things too as idle animations do not seem to exist for people in the wilderness.

Small things make a huge diff in this game. I went from struggling a bit to wrecking everything with 2 perks and using a completely unleveled base skill lol. Don't even feel I need the sneak anymore as I can kill anything and any amount of people with ease, but its fun

I think Master Difficulty is easy for both the player and the enemy. If a player can 1 hit-kill the enemy then so as the enemy.

I find master difficulty fairly difficult, but I do run around with a hunting bow and leather armour xD

You are one crazy lizard! At least try to stay hidden while you shoot things, okay?
-Loth

Armor Cap 576?
I don't think that's true since my armor rating is 1832.

Ha, the armor cap is actually 80%, which translates to 567 when you are wearing a full set of armor: Helmet, Gauntlets, Boots, Chest. Having an armor of 1832 just means that 1265 points of your armor are not doing anything for you. But it's a really big number, so... at least you have that going for you.

-Loth

Hi all,

I like the game as it is though I realise that much could be improved. IMHO immersion increases when you must choose/ignore perks carefully when building RP-chars.

The lvl/skill/perk system would be much more logical if the game world was randomized IMHO. Just weighted random chance re enemies lvl and loot scaled to enemy lvl. As it is you`re actually punished for exploring at low lvls.

Re difficulty I try on my second playthrough to refuse leveling, playing at adept. It seems to me that I`m relatively stronger at lvl 1-2 because enemies are so weak as the vanilla scaling works. And base skill maxed out to 100 can go a long way or so it seems to me.
Let`s see how this idea works on dragons, shall we...

On highest diff lvl when you can be very weak, unplayable actually, if you maximized wrong parts of the skill tree. And don`t ask how I know...

Rgds, Haldir

The Master difficulty is too easy, at least if you play as warrior.

I gave up playing a level 45 dualwielding warrior because it got too booring to play. At that time onehanded, heavy armor, smithing and enchanting where all level 90-100 and I killed more or less anything with 2 or 3 dual wielding power strikes. And nothing hurt me. I even stopped carrying potions.

Enchanting and smithing are way too overpowered so it is to easy to get 100% elemental protection, to good armor and to good weapons.

So in the end the game lost all challenge and got booring.

It's slightly more difficult as an unarmored mage though. As I am finding out.

But they need to scale the difficult much more if you play as a warrior to make the game fun (over level 40).

So, wait, you've discovered the single best way to make the game as difficult as you prefer. Well bugger me... why has NO ONE ELSE IN THIS AND EVERY OTHER THREAD COMPLAINING ABOUT DIFFICULTY THOUGHT OF THIS!!!!!

Just don't smith items. You can get your smithing skill up to 100 if you like, but don't smith things, or smith them to be around the 250 armour level mark. You'll die. You'll die lots. Your immersion will increase! As you stare at the loading screen. Frequently.

Such a freaking simple solution....