First part of mod has been released. You can find it here: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1351748-better-racials-a-race-overhaul-mod/

I think these would totally break the games balance.

What he has listed for each race, has already been used, in Morrowind and Oblivion.

I'm not a person who cares about Lore, but these attributes/abilities have been around (for me) since Morrowind came out back in 2002.

A wide majority of these are under and over powered and are no longer applicable in many cases I think.

Sanctuary? Gonna act like that light armor perk? 10% chance to avoid damage or something? Too weak if a power. Unless it had a higher chance. Gamebreaking if constant.

Adrenaline rush is already in but it svcks in Skyrim. Making some of the racials worthwhile would be better imo.

Nords get 50% Shock and 100% Frost when about half the games magic damage is in frost?

Then again this is not about balance I suppose.

I think fire resistance got nerfed too hard, along with altmer/breton racials. It's arguable how balanced frost immunity is in Skyrim, though I don't think any other abilities were clearly overpowered. I also think argonians are underpowered at the moment.
I liked Morrowind's more extreme racials because it forced you to think about mini-maxing for later high level characters. Breton/altmer magicka, poison immunity, nordic defensive racials, breton defensive racials, dumner fire resistance, redguard adrenaline rush, these things could not be disregarded. Orcs still have excellent abilities in every TES game.

What if you want a character who relies on summoned atronachs of a specific type? What if you wanted to stack on the effects of an enchantment from an end-game unique piece of gear? What if you wanted to compensate for a lack of a powerful enchantment effect in your mixture of end-game armor? What if you wanted to combine defensive racials for a very hard to kill character? What if you wanted a character with adrenaline rush to back them up, as a multi purpose offensive+defensive+retreating ability? Frost immunity which is hard to determine how balanced it is in Skyrim, everything else feels like it got nerfed too hard. Of course some people don't like this, because it feels like it forces them to play races they don't really want to play. I would like an option for completely vanilla old abilities but with khajiit/argonian buffs/ and one almost identical but with nords not being frost immune/dumner having their better flames racial.

Argonians/khajiit seemed horribly underpowered in Morrowind.

I like it

Thanks for your input everyone.

I forgot to mention that this won't be a complete overhaul. It will only effect races that have become weaker since Morrowind. For example: The Nords having 100% resistance to frost and 50% resistance to shock. As opposed to 50% resistance to frost and no resistance to shock.

I agree Khajiits and Argonians were weaker in morrowind. Maybe because they were slave races? I'll just be adding the water breathing to argonians and make it active all the time.

Do the stats like strength, agility, endurance, intelligence, etc. work in the background in Skyrim? From a player's standpoint, there's no reference to these stats whatsoever. As a modder, I don't know; not until the CS comes out anyway.

While I think the priciple is sound, a lot of this would need some serious re-working.


Some of these Abilites-such as The Attribute ones-simpley woudln't work. Sanctuary is another that wouldn't work very well due to the nature of the spell effect-it made you harder to hit. But since Morrowind calculated everything with Dice-rolls, it wouldn't hold up in today's game as-is,

Haha no. It is neither hard to determine, nor balanced; half the dragons use it, the Draugr use it exclusively, Frost Wraiths use it...
Being immune to Frost hugely nerfs a lot of threats. In Morrowind, it wasn't such a good benefit because very few enemies made heavy use of it. Much like how Resist Disease was more of a benefit (if still underpowered) in Morrowind where there were blighted/diseased animals all over the shop, and it's naff now that diseases are very uncommon.

They're gone entirely.

Honestly it seems like it would be far more sensible to make something called "More Diverse Racials" and up the effects of them to make races more distinct than slavishly recreate abilities designed for another game with completely different gameplay and balance.

Hmm, you guys are bringing up a lot of good points. I wasn't really thinking gameplay wise. I was thinking more lore wise. For example: Dunmers have high resistance to fire, because of their curse. or Nords have high resistance to frost because they're from Skyrim. That's what I was thinking about.


Perhaps I'll rethink it.

I would say you have a good idea in principle but many of these would have to be reworked as opposed to copy pasted from Morrowind. Dunmer 50% fire is plenty tbh. I really notice it when a dragon starts spewing fire at me. But they should still have a better power. Ancestral Wrath is weak and very lame. I almost never use it. Powers should be a last resort but overpowered thing that you can use once a day. If you want to exploit it by resting for 24 hours or so after go ahead. But Ancestral Wrath should have double the current damage imo. Or make it an instant Fire Storm effect instead. If you are gonna give them better racials though like the Nords with 50% frost and 25% shock then go ahead and give the Dunmer and Bretons an additional 25% to their resistances.

Here are some ideas that I think would be funner and fairly more lore friendly than most. I am not a modder but would wish to see these made into a mod.

Dunmer should still be able to summon an Ancestral Ghost. For me I like to RP chatting with my Ancestors sometimes. Not really but I liked to think I could. Plus a decently powerful leveled summon would be a nice addition to their powers that we have seen in the lore. Think of it as the more powerful you become the more powerful the ancestral ghost who answers your call. Like maybe every 10-20 levels and an up in power? Familar power, then flame, frost, and shock atronach, finally Dremora lord. Make it last very long as well as it is a power. Like 180-300 seconds or 3-5 minutes. Also Sul did it after the Red Year in the novels so their is 'hard' evidence of it being lore friendly.

Give Nords a small shock resistance like 25% alongside the 50% frost and the ability to do a grab that freezes an opponent. Like the power they had in Oblivion. Frost damage on touch. Just make it like Ice Form instead of pure frost damage. Freezes the opponent and deals slow frost damage over time.

Give Argonians resistance to poison again. Like 75%. They live in a friggin swamp! Constant water breathing effect. They also should swim about 50% faster.

Give Bosmer something called the Green Pact. If they consume meat or cannibalize someone they get 10% damage bonus and 10% damage reduction for everything for 300 seconds. If they kill something and do not eat it they do not get the damage part of this bonus for 24 hours no matter what they eat, unless they eat it. The rest of their traits are good.

Altmer should have disease resistance again. Makes sense. They breed to make superior specimens. Make increased magicka regen permanent by 50%. Have them take 25% more damage from the elements again and give them a power that lets them have an unlimited magicka pool for a 30-60 second period once a day to show their attunement with magicka.

Redguard's Adrenaline rush should give a temporary 50% boost to melee damage of any kind for 60 seconds and they have unlimited stamina during that time. Can be used once a day.
They also run a little faster and jump a little higher than the other races. To better represent the Athletics and Acrobatics they had in previous games.

Give Orcs a small magicka resistance again like in Oblivion they had 25% resistance to it. Call it a trait of their merrish blood despite their cursed state.

Khajiits should get the Eye of Fear power back, the one that causes all those around them to flee in fear. Also a power that lets them pick pockets and locks more easily when on Skooma or moon sugar...or a once a simple day usage lol. They also run a little faster and jump a little higher than the other races.

Bretons should have 50% magicka resistance again. Also a smaller yet still decent boost to magicka. 30? The spell absorption power they have is pretty good, maybe extendd duration to prolong its usefulness?

Imperials should get the ability to charm all those around them for a brief time. Up to an appropriate level. Not too sure what else. Chance to find better items as well as gold in the Imperial Luck power? Imperials are very plain and I feel like anything outlandish would be lore breaking. Maybe increased companion health and damage dealing?

Note. These are in addition or in direct replacement/modification of the current racials. If it was not mentioned it is left alone.

If anyone has any ideas or wishes to add on to or modify these just post below. I am interested in what people think.

Keep in mind that the races in Morrowind I think were based off those of the same race that lived in Vvardenfell. Think about it this way, humans have different traits depending on where they live. So the Skyrim races would have different traits based on where they live and where they're from.

Ultimately though I like the idea. Except maybe weaken the resistance to frost, because 100% is ridiculous. Maybe keep the 50% and change the shock resistance to 25%.

EDIT:
@ Albinodunmer: A list of changes like that is a great idea. I like most of what is on your list, if not all of it.

These are great suggestions. I will most likely take your advice. I will give you credit for the ideas.


Thank you for your input. I agree 100% resistance to frost is ridiculous.

On a personal note:

I would like to say to everyone. I think Skyrim is a great game as is, and am not trying to turn it into Morrowind 2.0.

I just think mw did some things better with the races. For example: Dunmers being able to summon an ancestral ghost.

I know there is a lot of arguing on the boards between the mw fans and skyrim fans. And frankly I believe the mw fans are taking things to the extreme.

I played mw for 7+ years, but I'm still able to enjoy skyrim.

Thanks lol. If you want to credit me go ahead, If not that is fine as well. Would be cool seeing Albinodunmer on a mod I download though lol.

Did not think you were. I took it as a framework to compare with Skyrim and Oblivion racials to make a mod with elements of all three that make sense and fit the lore.

Ancestral Ghost was critical to the Dunmer as it was a focus of their beliefs. Still is I think. Did Dunmer get an Ancestral Ghost in Morrowind or was Ancestral Ghost a regular summon then? In Oblivion it is a specific trait.

MW fans have always taken it to the extreme though. Morrowind was the last game Bethesda Game studios made o PC and ported to the consoles if I am not mistaken. When it is a port it is obvious, like Skyrim... Besides Morrowind was a gem, especially back then and was most hardcoe fans introduction to The Elder Scrolls series. Great game but at this point while enjoyable I think most of the enjoyment has been svcked from it at this point. At least for me.

Kudos for this mod in the making. I am exclusively a lore-friendly only mod user. But I am not too strict for some things though if I can justify it somehow. i.e. cool looking sword was an artifact created by an unknown Dwemer smith raised by Dunmer living with Orsimer...blah blah blah. Unique weapon. Profit...lol

Thanks for the reply. As for credit. I like to give credit where credit is due.


Ancestral Ghost was a once a day power exclusive to the Dunmer in Morrowind. The ghost was weak, but served as a distraction in the early parts of the game. That's why I like your idea of a leveled ghost, as you progress it becomes stronger.

If possible this could be accomplished rather simply I think. It could also make it cooler imo. Have each leveled ghost appear different. Use the Ghost NPC look and just add weapons and armor to them. Keep it with a Dunmer feel though if at all possible. So far the closest thing to actual Dunmer looking armor is the falmer armor sans the helmet(shudders). Just use apparel to make the ghost look unique. Leave their heads bare so we can tell it is a mer under there. You do not have to make the armor appear on the ghosts in the same strength that they do in the game. By this I mean Ebony armored Dunmer ghost can be weaker than the Falmer armored one. The Falmer armored one harkens back to the old days of legendary Dunmer heroes or some such. You could have the list like this.

Remember Helmet-less for appearance's sake. However appearance is subjective the armor and weapon descriptions are merely for appearance sake and are what I think is appropriate. If someone thinks different speak up. I have not seen all the weapons and armor in this game yet. Not even close I think.

-Summon Ancestral Ghost-Regular every day Dunmer ghost in clothing with no spells and iron weapons including a bow. Presumably one of your less auspicious ancestors, that was a merchant or farmer. Level 1-10.

-Summon Ancestral Warrior- Dunmer in a regular armor set. Fur, Leather, Iron, Steel. Has Steel weapons or maybe Orsish. Weak level spells like flames, sparks, firebolt and lightning bolts. Presumably one of your tougher yet unknown ancestors. Level 11-20,

-Summon Ancestral Guardian- Dunmer in a set of Elven, Orcish or Glass armors. Likewise weapons. Stronger spells. Presumably an Ancestor that was accomplished and respected, yet forgotten throughout history. Level 21-30.

-Summon Ancestral Hero- In Ebony armor and weapons (lets reserve Daedric for the Dremora). Strong spells. An ancestor who did much and is fondly remembered as a source of great pride and prestige in your house, whether or not you know of your ancestral lineage or not. Level 31-40

-Summon Ancestral Myth/Legend- In Falmer Armor, not the helmet. Whatever armor you think is appropriate. Daedric Longsword. Powerful spells. Like master level Destruction and Illusion spells. An ancestor so powerful that they only answer the calls of those in their family with power to match their own. Little is known of them but their deeds in the early wars against the Dwemer and Nords in the far distant past guaranteed the success of many battles against their ancient foes. They are an ancient and powerful spirit capable of changing the course of any battle. As strong as Dremora Lords if not slightly more powerful. Level 41+.

At level 50 you gain the ability to summon and banish them as a permanently bound summon.

Something like that. It is rough but there it is. Of course equal attention would need to go towards the other races I think for balance lol. How anyone accomplishes that is their own business.

These are great suggestions, I will definitely add these.

As for armor. Hopefully someone will convert the armors from Vvardenfell Imports, from Oblivion. Then I'll make a 2.0.

Thanks!

Thanks lol.

I hope they have Ordinator, Bonemold and especially Her Hands(Indoril plus magic look I think) armor in the game. Pretty much need it for my main RP'er. His father was one of the Hands of Almalexia and so was his uncle. The Father left Almalexia's service when she started going mad and before she could extend her retribution, the Nerevarine killed her.

Longer story is here if you care but that is not important lol. http://albinodunmer.deviantart.com/gallery/32447818#/d494svh

Def need more bony armors. Not a very big fan of the Dragonbone/scale armors.

I remember it had bonemold (Telvanni, Redoran, and Hlaalu) and ordinator armor, don't know if it had hands of Almalexia though. I really hope someone converts, so I can make a 2.0.

The fan fic was great, you even added a detailed timeline.

My main character in Skyrim, is a descendant of two Nord characters I had in Morrowind and Oblivion. In my sig I added their names.

My other character, is an Imperial Battlemage named Lucius Verus. He is a descendant of Varus Vantinius the head of the imperial legions in morrowind.

Dreugh armor was pretty cool as well in Morrowind. Always wondered why I could not have some in Oblivion when the damned things were right in front of me all the time.

Thanks. Think I need to tweak it some now that I have played Skyrim a bit. Update it with knowledge of the 4th era learned in Skyrim.

So a lineage kind of thing? Maybe try some inheritance mods for your own personal use. Some Morrowind armors and weapons passed down to you from your Nerevarine Ancestor. Some Oblivion Armors and weapons from your CoC ancestor. Stuff like that.

Since Morrowind was the first TES game I played, a lot of the characters have meaning. As for the inheritance mods. That sounds like a great idea, I'll try that once the ck is released.



It's still a good story, that obviously you put a lot of effort into.

Just out of curiosity are you guys still working on this? There is a summon ancestor ghost mod out right now though it is kind of unfinished imo. Maybe contact the maker? http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2556#

Well its just one person and I am him. As for the mod I am waiting for the ck to be released as I indicated in my first post. Rest assured the mod will be released, it is the only mod I intend to work on. As for contacting the maker of the ancestor ghost mod. I have no idea how to make a mod without the ck, if I did I would've contacted them.

As for my mod I assume I'll have it released by the first week of the ck's release. A lot of the things I intend to do were easy to do in Morrowind and Oblivion, and I've dabbled with the G.E.C.K. So hopefully the ck hasn't changed all that much.

Great news for me! Thanks!