I will edit OP in a minute

"Ok, well it's simple
Which team are more of the good guys?
Legion- Slavers.
N.C.R.- Limits almost only water source and electricity.
Which one is more evil?
I've got a profile for both side ( Good and Evil )
Which small time gangs should I join before I go to ________________ ?
Evil (As far as I know)- Great Khans, Powder Gangers
Good (As far as I know)- The Kings
I don't know alot of small time gangs because I just Beat the final Kings mission.
So I'm limited to certain gangs. Because as soon as I started the game,
I was anxious to go to New Vegas, no matter how many DeathClaws their are
on the way there. "

@xarnac- yeah but he caused innocent people to die and I'm just surprised that the fallout universe didn't turn in a worse direction. I don't think ncr's no torture policy is realistic, hell we torture people now and the world isn't that bad.

The Media just stretches things, But back to fallout, I hate President Kimbal, Hsu should've been president honestly.

This may be a bit off-topic but there was some discussion about Legion numbers in the previous thread. Any idea on where I can find that information since it's not in the wiki?

I believe caesar gives a rough number, I can't remember what it was however..

Torture is an often mis-used word...

So emotional trauma isn't torture, and even if it's "misplaced" media waterboarding or whatever the hell we do to the detainees isn't torture. What is your definition for torture? Not being a snot or anything just wondering.

Torture - For someone to use force to obtain information outside of what the law permits.

The websters dictionary says torture is to cause intense suffering or the infliction of intense pain to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

The problem with emotional trauma is that it's impossible to prove (you can't go inside someone's mind to see if they're actually emotionally tortured). True torture, in my opinion, is something that causes permanent physical harm (clipping off fingers, flogging, beating someone senseless).

Waterboarding, when done correctly, isn't fatal. It may be extremely uncomfortable and it makes you feel like you're drowning but it isn't deadly. I know exactly what you're referring to, but I'm not going to bring it all up here since that could easily get the thread shut down.

However, equating Caesar's Legion crucifying people and beating them to the suspicion that the NCR might torture people is a flimsy argument.

You asked for my definition (Or at least I read that.), So I gave you my personnal definition.

wait, I never said ncr tortured people, I said I'm surprised their govt doesn't allow them to considering ours "does".

@boradam- sorry, I thought you were giving the definition.

The NCR doesn't represent our current government. Even so, torture isn't in our playbook, so I don't see why it would be in theirs.

Edit: I can give a multitude of reasons why I believe (I've done research on the subject) "we" don't torture people. If you want to hear me out, PM me. That sort of discussion, like I said earlier, could easily get this thread axed.

When I hear water boarding and terrorism, I picture Bin Laden surfing the Californian Coast while listening to The Ventures.

:ermm: Off topic..

Annnnyways...

yeah.

Is he good at it, like surfing in a wave-tunnel, or just casually surfing on a small wave?

We shouldn't water board terrorists, we should wrap them in bacon.



Well...hes better at it than http://www.lat34.org/quick_hits/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/jesus_surfer.jpg

:nono: We should instead wrap them in toast.

I vote for warm towels.

Well, How about Bacon Wrapped toasts in warm towels?

In a shark infested pool?

How are we suppose to get them to confess to starting the Chicago Fire with warm towels?

Tar and feathers.

Flick 'em in the ear at random intervals all day long for weeks.

People, Think with your heads!


BRING OUT, THE COMFY CHAIR!

I say bamboo shoots under the finger nails, then sow their legs were their arms are.

I still say bacon though, it sends em' straight to hell, they cant pass go, they don't get 200 dollars.


ON TOPIC: The Legion is evil.