He already said aside from a CE.

I have a whole drive devoted to DLC, dozens of games on my virtual shelf, and a stack of DVD backups.

I guess some people just like it one way, some the other, but optical disc distribution is a dying breed. I'm not an avid fan of cloud computing, but that is where everything is headed.

How can they legally do that if they have accepted funds for protecting those games? Is it in their terms that they can strip out the DRM if they so choose?

I don't know, I'm not a Valve employee but that's what they said and I have no doubt that they will when the time comes.

...which isn't any time soon since Steam just passed 30 million users :huh:

Most issues people have with Steam are due to the fact that most people don't know how to use Steam.
Do you always have to patch the game up to 100% to play? No, you just turn off automatic updates.

Don't want to re-download the game every time you want to re-install it? Just create a backup and burn it to a DVD. Steam's backup system even creates DVD structures so the DVD you burn the game to will behave just like a real game DVD with menus and everything.

Too many popup windows and messages coming from Steam? Just turn them off in the options menu, Steam can run 100% in the background.

Steam in-game crashing your game? Like everything else... it can be turned off.

I'm in the same situation. Really annoying. If it wasn't for Steam I'd be playing the game right now.

Oh I believe you. I've read it myself before, but could never quite understand how they could just enable Steam protected games to function without the server. I would also imagine that if (when) they announce that they are in fact doing this, it will be like GOG only with 30 million frantic downloaders pulling down several dozen gigs a piece. :shocking:

It meant offline DRMs

Actually they don't. Piracy isn't that big as people think. As long as devs make games worth their money, there will be more people buying the real deal. Why? Because they want to have more games in the future, because of customer support and other things. I wouldn't care less if they sent out fake pirated versions that make your PC go off in a small nuclear explosion. That will hurt the pirates. Now they are just bothering the people who are actually supporting them. I find something wrong with that..



No this time it's not. I want to play the game, but I'm not allowed to. If you go to the store and buy a carton of milk you expect to be able to drink the milk when you damn well please. You don't expect to wait for a day for a guy showing up to tell you you can drink it. When i buy a game in a store, I expect to be able to play it when I get home. period.

+1
its a joke...

:rofl:

You need to go check up on your facts. For example Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2's illegal downloads FAR outnumber the actual sales (on PC, consoles had less pirated copies). Not a problem? How would you feel if you created something and only 20% of the people who use it actually payed you money?


Whether you are bothered by Steam is entirely up to you. They are just protecting the game.


oh sure, compare games to a food product, because games, like food, are also a requirement for... y'know, staying alive and stuff. :rolleyes:



A thing of the past, move on or you'll get left behind.

People can cheat and steal ANYTHING in life and get an advantage. Doesn't mean that they should.

Very well:

Having something to look at, being able to use it on a PC without internet connection, the sound of opening the case for the first time, a manual that is actually a booklet, nostalgia, the experiene of going to a store and look for a game. being able to give it as a gift. Unpacking it if received as a gift

I also buy things D2D or via steam, It just isn't as nice as actually getting a physical copy.

Create a DVD backup and draw a pretty picture of Vault Boy on it.


Steam in offline mode.


Exactly the same sound you get when you open it for the second time... or the third time...


This I'll give you, I miss real manuals too.


I don't think that applies to new games. :huh:


You can do that, you just have to tell the person you're giving it too that they will have to install Steam as well.


D2D is horrible, they actually modify the game files and encrypt them so using mods with D2D games is a no go.

Steam doesn't do that by the way, Steam only modifies the executable ^

That doesn't particularly bother me. I have not been impressed with any game since 2004 ~until yesterday, and I don't expect to be impressed any more from the games that come after... FO:NV is fantastic, but will be ruined from "design by committee"; where they realize that certain aspects were too complicated, and/ or to cerebral to be commercial enough... and they'll change it in the follow up games, and other companies will (and are) scrutinizing their success and failure, and will doubtless follow with simpler fare. There is little fun to be had in the coming years, unless you can stomach FPS mixed with everything.

When did they ever do that? I've never experienced any change to mods on D2D, including FO3 itself.

When have they not done that? :blink:

I have a couple of friends who buy most of their games from D2D and they've never been able to use mods on any of them, including Oblivion.

FOSE (as example) cannot work with D2D because it is encrypted, and to manage it despite that... is illegal.

That's strange, I've always used mods with D2D games without any problems.

Still need to be online to install it. There are situations when that can mess things up.

I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Steam is the best service. It's already been shown that, right now, as we speak, there are people playing illegal copies of Fallout: New Vegas. It patently does not work. Meanwhile there are people with legitimate units waiting to have their games activated. Waiting in line, waiting through Steam errors and busy servers, waiting on Steam to get past the fact it's mistaken a physical install for something that requires a full game download/ People with legit copies having their saves shuffled around and dikeed with.

If it fails as grandly as other DRM, as copy protection, as a bar to piracy, what makes it the best? I think you're confusing services you like that come with Steam, with what it is actually good for when it comes to curbing piracy, and the argument therefore, FOR Steam. It's good for the services you like, you like them, but it svcks as much as the next DRM, and it svcks for having a complete lack of benefits to people who don't want to use those services. To them, it's just an intrusive piece of software, and in some cases a barrier to playing the game, and beyond those cases, a barrier to playing a game without the hassle of encountering problems that only exist because it is there. :shrug:

To clarify: I already was a steam user before this and never had any problems with it. It is by far one of the better solutions. I'm just a little grumpy that my friend can play it because he has a PS3 and I can't play because I have the PC version.

The only mods that doesn't work well with D2D is pretty much just MGE, OBSE and FOSE as they use the game exe. The rest works. The worst thing with the D2D encryptions IMO is that the game will require special patches, that are seldom released at the same time as the normal retail patch.

All games get cracked and downloaded illegally, Steam games are no exception of this.

HOWEVER, when we look at the alternatives, such as Ubisoft's new DRM, where you have to be connected to their servers while playing and if the connection is interrupted you get locked out of the game. Even if the Ubisoft servers go down you'll get locked out of the game.

Steam doesn't leave any unwanted services running in the background, it has a perfectly fine offline mode and as long as developers are content with this DRM... I'm happy.

When I say that Steam is the best DRM service I am referring to how it affects the customer, yes you have to be online when installing a game, yes you have to have Steam running while playing, but that's it! There are no more limitations and I think that's pretty damn good compared to other DRM methods.

Pretty damn good when compared with Ubisoft's policy I'll grant you. But I can't see any advantages it has over the simple disc check and standard access control tech that fails as well as Steam when it comes to DRM. :shrug: I can see benefits to that kind of DRM though, because it doesn't require me to install anything beyond the game that I purchased.

And it'd account for far fewer issues currently being put forward in the tech support forums. Can't sweep that under the carpet and say this is better because, meh, there's worse out there, when there are obviously less problematic options out there, too. :shrug:

S'like Steam is wearing a cloak of protection for anyone who chose to use it. But those being forced to have wayward and weird opinions, at least, according to a lot of comments here. :vaultboy:

I'm pretty sure that the issues people are having with FNW and Steam is because of Bethesda's Gamebryo engine and not Steam...

It didn't work properly with GFWL and now it wont' work with Steam, while every other game I've played on Steam worked fine.

The Steam Cloud and saves issues was thanks to Steam. Also people trying to install their physcial copies only to watch Steam initate a full download, is a Steam issue. Both could have been avoided with another choice of DRM, and both account for a fair few topics in the tech forum. :shrug:

Edit: I don't have a major problem because there's no changing the fact that F:NV comes with Steam. I just hope enough feedback can change Bethesda's mind about using it in future. Because unless Steam gets some major improvements, and starts offering something that I want, like choice... I don't want it.

Every major Steamworks title I got at launch, got a poor launch because of Steam activations and/or overloaded servers.