people complaining guild (guild esque) quests too short

Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:20 pm

Yeah, they're paced poorly. I go on one official mission with the companions and now I'm able to join their elite clique of werewolves? They're not very secretive are they....Mages guild is a joke. Setup was good, but once again it was paced poorly. It was rushed as well. I got through it only casting three spells. You feel like a generic adventurer, not a super smart wizard who's growing in power and learning the ways of magic as he discovers the secrets of skyrim. The eye ends up
Spoiler
being a generic mcguffin, the guy who was obviously the bad guy ends up being bad....because the script really wants him to. I actually thought Bethesds would be smart and make it so that Ancano really WASN'T a bad guy and was just a jerk, but ends up helping you in the end.
It would've been much deeper than what we got. We learn nothing about the Psijiics, who just acted as a deux ex machina to deal with the eye which we learn nothing about. We never got attached to the archmage, one of the characters
Spoiler
dies
and it's barely even mentioned. And then I get to be archmage for......being a good adventurer? Do people become college deans now for being an errand boy and killing some crazy teacher? It's just poorly done all around. Thieves guild I heard was good, but I wont judge since I haven't finished. Dark Brotherhood was pretty good but nothing to write home about. And the bard's college............what?
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Lynette Wilson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Most of those are radiant quests which are boring, repetitive and irrelevant to the guild story, what the problem is, is that as soon as you start a guild in about 1 in-game day your already the leader while other members have been there for decades and don't seem to care about it plus there's almost know benefits to it.

Precisely how I feel about it. Also the Dark Brotherhood one was cool but not enough. There should have been more to restoring the new one and you should get more then one new memeber(with real names damn it!) and then it would have been sick.
Yeah, they're paced poorly. I go on one official mission with the companions and now I'm able to join their elite clique of werewolves? They're not very secretive are they....Mages guild is a joke. Setup was good, but once again it was paced poorly. It was rushed as well. I got through it only casting three spells. You feel like a generic adventurer, not a super smart wizard who's growing in power and learning the ways of magic as he discovers the secrets of skyrim. The eye ends up
Spoiler

being a generic mcguffin, the guy who was obviously the bad guy ends up being bad....because the script really wants him to. I actually thought Bethesds would be smart and make it so that Ancano really WASN'T a bad guy and was just a jerk, but ends up helping you in the end.
It would've been much deeper than what we got. We learn nothing about the Psijiics, who just acted as a deux ex machina to deal with the eye which we learn nothing about. We never got attached to the archmage, one of the characters
Spoiler

dies
and it's barely even mentioned. And then I get to be archmage for......being a good adventurer? Do people become college deans now for being an errand boy and killing some crazy teacher? It's just poorly done all around. Thieves guild I heard was good, but I wont judge since I haven't finished. Dark Brotherhood was pretty good but nothing to write home about. And the bard's college............what?


Yeah this too.
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Matthew Barrows
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:53 pm

I thought the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild were great, both in terms of length and pacing.

The College and Companions though......... that was sad. Especially the Companions.
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Irmacuba
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:49 am

Sorry, but wrong. There is a quest that requires you to cast spells with specific effects in a specific order on a pillar in order to continue. I know because this the quest that I stopped playing the mage guild on.

Yes and one of them there isn't a beginner level spell for so you have to actually be pretty high up. Furthermore there are tons of quests in oblivion you are required to be leveled for.
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Adam Kriner
 
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Post » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:16 am

Understatement? So you're saying these quests are even shorter?

I do Heist and Numbers Jobs all the time, and upon arriving in town I can get what I need without any danger in under half a minute (loading screens aside).

Exaggeration, then, jeez.

Let's assume you got a quest to "retrieve" an item from the Wind District of Whiterun. You're telling me that you can get to the house in question, get inside (ignore the loading time, of course), get the item you need, get out of the house and back to the main gate in less than a minute? What about if you were to get something from a home in Solitude or Markarth? The homes are further from the main gate.

And, just because I feel like being awkward, video or I don't believe you.

I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't hold water. It's like saying people complain about a dungeon being too quick but don't stand perfectly still for 9 hours to prolong the experience. Furthermore, aside from the Companions and the Thieves Guild, the other guilds don't have Radiant quests until after the questlines conclude. How are you supposed to "prolong the experience" if we can't even play them until after the questline is over.

hahaha, another member that makes me laugh. You can't compare standing still to prolong the experience to doing radiant quests to achieve the same goal. How does that even make sense?

Funny, before I even went to Saarthal with the CoW, I was given a quest to use some scrolls on the undead and report back. Because I rushed, didn't speak to anyone else. Sounds a little like a radiant quest to me, though.
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Laura Tempel
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:51 pm

Yes and one of them there isn't a beginner level spell for so you have to actually be pretty high up. Furthermore there are tons of quests in oblivion you are required to be leveled for.

Actually, the scrolls to cast those spell with are provided in that very dungeon.
A design decision I could have done without, but there you go.
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Rhiannon Jones
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:24 pm

Re: the Companions and the Circle...

Spoiler
Within the framework of the story, it's reasonable to assume that Aela and Skjor are giving you the choice at that point because, bless his heart, that big lunkhead Farkas transformed in front of a newbie and spilled the beans about the Circle's little secret. From their point of view, I think it's more about getting another werewolf into the fold than it is about allowing you into the Circle because of who you are and what you've done. IMO they're just looking for another ally in their vendetta against the Silver Hand and they think forcing you to become like them will secure your cooperation and loyalty and bind you to their cause in a way that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

(When I first played to that point, I really thought I was being offered a choice between becoming like them or being killed. I saw it as a much more "do this or else" moment, and it was kinda surprised to find out that I could refuse and all it did was stall the questline.)

It makes sense given the attitudes of everyone involved. There are five members of the Circle (counting Kodlak). The oldest and wisest, their Harbinger, is trying to cure himself and it's hinted at if not outright assumed that the twins will follow in his footsteps if he succeeds. Aela and Skjor don't want a cure, they see lycanthropy as a blessing, they are eager to remain werewolves forever and to continue the tradition within the faction. But they are outnumbered. The fact that Farkas lets the cat (dog?) out of the bag gives them an excuse to pull you in on what they assume will be their side, after all *they* are the ones who are giving you this great honor. The other members of the Circle are conspicuous by their absence in the Underforge and I doubt they were ever consulted about it. I find it hard to believe that Kodlak would've said, "oh sure fine, turn the rookie into a werewolf, no problem."

In short, they have their own agenda and hope to use you to further it, and it's doubtful that they gave the rest of the Circle any opportunity to object or override their decision. Aela as much as admits that they are hiding things from the others when she says she's "running interference" for you while you're off killing Silver Hand on her orders, and doesn't think anybody else has figured out what you're up to. It was never about you being worthy of joining the CIrcle, it was about needing someone to go do her (and Skjor's) dirty work without arousing too much suspicion.

It's one of the reasons why I dislike her so much. And Skjor, but then he's not around that long. I find it hilarious that it all ends up with Kodlak naming me the next Harbinger, and that I can finish out the questline by curing myself and the twins without ever finding those precious Totems of Hircine for her. Who's outnumbered now, beeyotch? :tongue:

That said - I do think it should be possible to delay the onset of the werewolf stuff more than what's possible right now. At least let me get a few more radiant quests from the rest of the Circle before everybody starts telling me to talk to Skjor. From a story perspective, I think it's justifiable the way it is - from a gameplaying perspective, it doesn't let you sink into the faction and enjoy it very much before things really start rolling.

(Edited for spoiler tags, forgot I was in Gen Dis forum)
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Eduardo Rosas
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:08 pm

The problem with the guild quest lines is that they can be rushed through in no time. Nobody really stops to do a few guild radiant quests inbetween each major quest.
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Rachel Hall
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:05 pm

The thieves guild would probably the only guild i would replay in skyrim for the enjoyment of the quest. The others aren't good imo. I like to replay all of oblivion guilds so i think oblivion had better guilds
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Michelle Smith
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:33 am

I still dont see how the companions makes sense. Even if they were looking for a new werwolf ally to even the score, why would they pick a rookie who could easily spill the beans? This is supposed to be a closely guarded secret. Imagine how many people, given the stigma against werewolves in skyrim, would run to the church and have the jarl assemble an army to take down Jorvasskr. Sure you could say "there's no proof" but they're so open about it that anyone in the rookie's position could get dirt on them. Even if that's not the case, given how open they are about it, something would slip eventually. I'm surprised Farkas hasn't outed the whole circle by now if he transforms in public every time he's outnumbered. Why not take one of the more experienced members? And for that matter, how did they know the player would accept lycanthropy and not try and get cured like the rest of the circle? I know you'rw trying to make things make sense, and kudos for coming up with a theory, but this story is falling apart as it is. It can't be fixed.

And to those saying "questlines are as long as you make them!" That doesn't change the rushed pacing. The mage's guild quests are all so urgent, saying "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS NOW OR THE WORLD WILL END! AHHHHH!" that you need to complete them NOW if you want to stay in character for roleplay. That's fine sometimes but the whole questline is like that with no intermissions. Like I said: it's rushed and poorly paced. And I dont think anyone can defend the farce that is the bard's college. One or two actual quests, no actual barding, and several broken radiant quests.
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kitten maciver
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:34 pm

I liked the guilds a lot actually had more fun playing them than I did in past games.
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barbara belmonte
 
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Post » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:27 am

I liked the guilds a lot actually had more fun playing them than I did in past games.
To each their own, I guess. What did you like, from a story perspective? Also, have you done all the guild quests? I was VERY unsatisfied with companions, mages, and bards (hardly even a faction).
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Neko Jenny
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:15 pm

Stop through the questline to do radiants? HAH, I laugh at that. Why? Because you can't even do that for certain factions. I actually just started the companions quests on my newest character and I wanted to make it feel more like ranking up so I decided I was going to do 4-6 radiant quests before I even grabbed the first official quest off of Skjor. So, I do the first radiant quest, killing a wolf in Ysolda's house in whiterun, I run back to aela and turn the quest in and then I proceed to asking her for more work. Here I am, thinking I could get another radiant quest. Lo and behold, she tells me to go to Skjor and now all options to get any radiant quests are gone.

I'm basically FORCED to rush through the questline, I can't even do radiants as filler if I WANTED to. gg
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Anna S
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:39 pm

I still dont see how the companions makes sense. Even if they were looking for a new werwolf ally to even the score, why would they pick a rookie who could easily spill the beans? This is supposed to be a closely guarded secret.

Which the "rookie" already knows about anyway, and he/she is still around, asking for work, presumably wanting to remain in the faction.

If they are looking for a new Circle member to help with their agenda, it's either bring you in or reveal the secret to yet another person, i.e., another Companion. And that means one who has been around longer and formed loyalties within the group that might make them less likely to become Aela and Skjor's errand boy/girl. If you listen to Torvar and Athis, they will talk about how they want to get into the Circle and change things. Not really your best bet if you're looking for a compliant ally. Ria is also very new and inexperienced, but she seems close to Vilkas - who is certainly more in Kodlak's camp when it comes to lycanthropy. And Ria's a new and inexperienced member who doesn't already know their secret, while you are new and inexperienced and do know it.

And Njada... well, she's obnoxious to you even when you're Harbinger. Nobody wants her in their little club. :P

The point is, it's true that anyone who knows could easily spill the beans, just like Farkas did. So why create a second possible bean-spiller when you've already got one on your hands to begin with? Especially if that one might be seen as easier to manipulate.
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MARLON JOHNSON
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:14 pm

The radiant quests are a huge fail as far as I'm concerned. They just end up feeling totally artificial just like all the NPC jibber jabber that is repeated over and over until I'm sick of hearing it. I was hoping the radiant quests would be more random and unique instead of the exact same repeated quests over and over. They don't add anything to the guild experience and I really hated being forced to do so many for the Thieve's Guild in order to be Guild Master. It just totally svcked the life out of that quest line for me personally. Other than the Radiant quests I enjoyed the Thieve's Guild and Dark Brotherhood quest lines for the most part but the College and Companion quest lines were entirely too short. The Bard one may as well not have been included because it is extremely boring and doesn't end up anywhere. You do a few fetch quests and it's over and nobody seems to give a crap whether you're there or not after that. Pointless.
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm

Stop through the questline to do radiants? HAH, I laugh at that. Why? Because you can't even do that for certain factions. I actually just started the companions quests on my newest character and I wanted to make it feel more like ranking up so I decided I was going to do 4-6 radiant quests before I even grabbed the first official quest off of Skjor. So, I do the first radiant quest, killing a wolf in Ysolda's house in whiterun, I run back to aela and turn the quest in and then I proceed to asking her for more work. Here I am, thinking I could get another radiant quest. Lo and behold, she tells me to go to Skjor and now all options to get any radiant quests are gone.

I'm basically FORCED to rush through the questline, I can't even do radiants as filler if I WANTED to. gg

This is true for the Companions, but not the Thieves' Guild or College of Winterhold. I thought the radiant quests for the Thieves' Guild were pretty good, actually.

Haven't joined the Dark Brotherhood yet, so I'm not sure how the radiant quests work for them. Does the Bard's college have radiant quests as well?
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Gemma Flanagan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:39 pm

While I agree factions are the weakest part of Skyrim, they all had their moments.

For the Companions, working with Aela and "assassinating" the leaders of the Silver Hand (my huge Nord warrior... assassinating meant charging in with a battleaxe) made me feel like a badass.

College of Winterhold, simply entering it every time made me feel like I was entering a group of arcane wizards. The College is an amazing piece of scenery.

Dark Brotherhood, the entire late plotline with the Emperor is awesome. Killing the woman at her wedding to set it up was awesome.

Thieves Guild, getting that awesome black armor and entering Nocturnal's shrine was cool.
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Donatus Uwasomba
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:38 pm

Stop through the questline to do radiants? HAH, I laugh at that. Why? Because you can't even do that for certain factions. I actually just started the companions quests on my newest character and I wanted to make it feel more like ranking up so I decided I was going to do 4-6 radiant quests before I even grabbed the first official quest off of Skjor. So, I do the first radiant quest, killing a wolf in Ysolda's house in whiterun, I run back to aela and turn the quest in and then I proceed to asking her for more work. Here I am, thinking I could get another radiant quest. Lo and behold, she tells me to go to Skjor and now all options to get any radiant quests are gone.

About the only way I've found to get more radiant quests in before you get forcefed into the various parts of the main questline is to avoid Aela and Skjor like the plague and only take jobs from the twins until that becomes impossible. It seemed like I could get at least one from each of them, maybe three at most between the two, at certain points in the storyline before being told that Skjor was looking for me or that Aela already had dibs on my services. If I took a job from Skjor or Aela at any point that would probably be the last or only one I got before they pushed me into the Circle and Silver Hand stuff.
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sexy zara
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:46 pm

Well OP: how many quests does the CoW encompass, and how many did the mages guild have in Oblivion?

Same for the fighters guild/companions.

No more questions y'honour.
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Hearts
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:13 pm

I simply join a faction i want, do one quest and then wait

they feel short because people are simply joining and then completing in one session. You can play the way you want, but if you space it out and do other tasks, it feels more natural

They feel short because they are. I could easily finish the Companions questline in an afternoon. Easily. I could probably squeeze in the Mages guild if I tried. No way could I finish the entire Fighters Guild quest line from Oblivion in an afternoon. Why can't some people accept that the guild questlines in Skyrim are shorter than the guild questlines in Oblivion. The only reason that the Thieves guild questline is the longest in Skyrim is because its heaving with boring repetative radiant story quests. Skyrim is better than Oblivion in almost every way, accept the guilds.

EDIT: You say ''they feel short because people are simply joining and then completing in one session''. I say you can finish them in one session precisely because they are so short.

EDIT2: To OP I'm not only complaining that the guild questlines are short I'm also complaining that the quests are boring & the story lines are poor.
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louise fortin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:51 pm

This is true for the Companions, but not the Thieves' Guild or College of Winterhold. I thought the radiant quests for the Thieves' Guild were pretty good, actually.
They're repetitive. Same with the DB quests after you finish. I just stopped doing them because it's tedious busywork, and in the case of the TG it broke immersion to have everyone still treating you like the dirt on their shoe when you saved the guild and are the only one doing any work at all.

I liked all the guild quest lines, except that some of them felt short and without a satisfying sense of resolution.
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James Potter
 
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Post » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 am



Which the "rookie" already knows about anyway, and he/she is still around, asking for work, presumably wanting to remain in the faction.

If they are looking for a new Circle member to help with their agenda, it's either bring you in or reveal the secret to yet another person, i.e., another Companion. And that means one who has been around longer and formed loyalties within the group that might make them less likely to become Aela and Skjor's errand boy/girl. If you listen to Torvar and Athis, they will talk about how they want to get into the Circle and change things. Not really your best bet if you're looking for a compliant ally. Ria is also very new and inexperienced, but she seems close to Vilkas - who is certainly more in Kodlak's camp when it comes to lycanthropy. And Ria's a new and inexperienced member who doesn't already know their secret, while you are new and inexperienced and do know it.

And Njada... well, she's obnoxious to you even when you're Harbinger. Nobody wants her in their little club. :P

The point is, it's true that anyone who knows could easily spill the beans, just like Farkas did. So why create a second possible bean-spiller when you've already got one on your hands to begin with? Especially if that one might be seen as easier to manipulate.

That's exactly my point: it makes no sense for Farkas to be spilling the beans like that. From a character and story perspective it makes no sense. He's trusting a rookie with that secret? Just because he's outnumbered? He's a companion, they're usually outnumbered. The entire questline had you outnumbered. It doesn't make sense from a character or story perspective for this to happen. And is it really worth getting a complete stranger to join you so you can have someone else on your side in debates? The moment that rookie saw me transform, I'd kick him out of the guild before he got anymore dirt on us. Hopefully no one would believe him without proof, and we'd ban him from jorvasskr so he couldn't get any evidence. Harsh, yes, but your entire family and organization is at stake, including your own lives and reputations. I wouldn't risk all that on one newbie who i was stupid enough to expose myself to. It just doesn't follow logically from a story perspective.
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Stephanie Kemp
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:03 pm

This is true for the Companions, but not the Thieves' Guild or College of Winterhold. I thought the radiant quests for the Thieves' Guild were pretty good, actually. Haven't joined the Dark Brotherhood yet, so I'm not sure how the radiant quests work for them. Does the Bard's college have radiant quests as well?

I thought the only Radiant quest for the College happens after you complete the quest, or are you talking about the Ritual Spells and cleaning up the pools? I guess there's also the fetch quests for soul gems and picking up enchanted items, but those hardly seem like quests.

Regarding the Bard's College:
Spoiler
Aside from the initiation quest, there's three musical instruments you're asked to get back by faculty. That's it though.
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Nicole Mark
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:07 pm

About the only way I've found to get more radiant quests in before you get forcefed into the various parts of the main questline is to avoid Aela and Skjor like the plague and only take jobs from the twins until that becomes impossible. It seemed like I could get at least one from each of them, maybe three at most between the two, at certain points in the storyline before being told that Skjor was looking for me or that Aela already had dibs on my services. If I took a job from Skjor or Aela at any point that would probably be the last or only one I got before they pushed me into the Circle and Silver Hand stuff.

Well I normally took jobs from Farkas but as soon as I did his and turned it in he'd also have me go to Skjor for the first quest, so I switched to Aela. It seems that no matter what, doing 1 radiant quest will immediately activate the first job with Skjor. Very annoying, because I'm actually trying to do a bunch of radiants between quests to at least somewhat roleplay ranking up and being helpful to the citizens of Skyrim and the game won't let me lol. Oh well.

Again, I hope they learn from their mistakes for Dawnguard...and if not Dawnguard, then the second DLC. Hope you devs are reading this! Bring us back some of the epic moments we had in previous TES factions! I want to "accidentally" drop a mantled deer head onto an unsuspecting NPC or poison an entire house of guests again! Hehe. :biggrin:

Edit: Well, Skyrim's DB already has something similar to dropping something on top of an NPC's head, I won't spoil it but I completely forgot haha.
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Alexandra walker
 
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Post » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:24 pm

It's not the fact that they are short, or have too little content, it's that the action picks up far too early and ends up feeling like another story rather than an actual faction, at least that's how i seen it.

I agree in oblivion at the beggining of each faction i felt like just an average member doing my job then as i advanced i became more important.
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Chad Holloway
 
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