[sunny lovett]

Indoctrination theory or not, as long as Bioware can come up with an ending that makes sense and actually provides some closure beyond "Do you want the Galaxy map to be red, green, or blue?", I'll be perfectly happy.

What Wyatt linked to last page was the thing I want. Very straightforward ending that depends on your past actions with a safe, known ending that we have come to expect and received in both ME1 and 2. A good ending, which makes the average user happy that still needs lot of effort to gain in the most positive manner. Shepard may or may not die depending on how well you did. Allied fleet may or may not survive depending on your Assets. Normandy may or may not survive depending on your upgrades.

So on.

[Roberto Gaeta]

Well, there are slight variations since there is so much open to interpretation. I believe that sometime after Shep was blown to [censored] by Harbinger, ....

The problem.

Shep was dead, if not dead to rights. Why bother controlling him anymore, they won, everyone was wiped out, we hear the call for retreat, yet they let him live to convince him to let them win?

[rebecca moody]

okay, I have gone over to the dark side, that was all indoctrination

[stevie trent]

Femshep + Liara isn't homosixuality, it's xenosixuality

Femshep + Liara isn't homosixuality, it's xenosixuality

Again, not going to open that can of worms. I have extremely strong feelings against this sort of thing, and it will just lead to an argument.

[Jarrett Willis]

The problem.

Shep was dead, if not dead to rights. Why bother controlling him anymore, they won, everyone was wiped out, we hear the call for retreat, yet they let him live to convince him to let them win?

There are of course flaws with the theory, but far less than the real ending.
Shep is the most important individual to the resistance, controlling him would by incredibly useful to the Reaper's cause. Shep has been exposed to a lot of Reaper tech. Without exception, every person exposed to such an amount has been indoctrinated. Perhaps they had been slowly indoctrinating him for a while, and believed therisk would be worth the potential asset of having one of the most important men in the universe under their control. It's too vague to confirm specifics, thus theory.

[*Chloe*]

There are of course flaws with the theory, but far less than the real ending.
Shep is the most important individual to the resistance, controlling him would by incredibly useful to the Reaper's cause. Shep has been exposed to a lot of Reaper tech. Without exception, every person exposed to such an amount has been indoctrinated. Perhaps they had been slowly indoctrinating him for a while, and believed therisk would be worth the potential asset of having one of the most important men in the universe under their control. It's too vague to confirm ending, thus theory.

Could have all been avoided by bioware >_<

[Lalla Vu]

There are of course flaws with the theory, but far less than the real ending.
Shep is the most important individual to the resistance, controlling him would by incredibly useful to the Reaper's cause. Shep has been exposed to a lot of Reaper tech. Without exception, every person exposed to such an amount has been indoctrinated. Perhaps they had been slowly indoctrinating him for a while, and believed therisk would be worth the potential asset of having one of the most important men in the universe under their control. It's too vague to confirm ending, thus theory.

They have no need to control him. He literally united the entire galaxy and the Reapers still made them retreat. The Reapers won as soon as the laser hit the group. If he died, they won, if he lived, Harbinger would not have flown away, he would have shot him again, thus killing him.

[W E I R D]

Again, not going to open that can of worms. I have extremely strong feelings against this sort of thing, and it will just lead to an argument.

Fair enough, and not intrested in such an argument myself.

I just remembered someone from BioWare saying that ME1's femshep + Liara didn't count for same-six romance, or something like that

Anyway, on topic of the endings, i like the "red" most.

Spoiler

Seeing the reapers fall down dead on earth and the soldiers rising up to cheer worked better than with the other ones.

[kristy dunn]

They have no need to control him. He literally united the entire galaxy and the Reapers still made them retreat. The Reapers won as soon as the laser hit the group. If he died, they won, if he lived, Harbinger would not have flown away, he would have shot him again, thus killing him.

We can't know the Reapers' reasoning. Rather than having me try to convince you why they would indoctrinate Shepard, why don't you try to convince me about all the plotholes at the Citadel? Or why destroying the Reapers is the only option wherein Shepard survives, seemingly on the rubble of London? This one issue with Harbinger having no reason to control Shep surely doesn't disprove the entire theory to you?

[Darian Ennels]

Liara isn't a female, to quote her from the first game

"[we are] mono-gendered—male and female have no real meaning for us,"

[Robert Devlin]

Liara isn't a female, to quote her from the first game

"[we are] mono-gendered—male and female have no real meaning for us,"

she sounds female and looks female, and the codex says the asari are an all female race....ergo she is female

We are bit off topic aren't we?

[Nicole Kraus]

she sounds female and looks female, and the codex says the asari are an all female race....ergo she is female

We are bit off topic aren't we?

Just letting you know what she herself actually said (in game) about their race....

We can't know the Reapers' reasoning. Rather than having me try to convince you why they would indoctrinate Shepard, why don't you try to convince me about all the plotholes at the Citadel? Or why destroying the Reapers is the only option wherein Shepard survives, seemingly on the rubble of London? This one issue with Harbinger having no reason to control Shep surely doesn't disprove the entire theory to you?

So the theory that you are subscribing to is that Shep is still on Earth and that the entire third game is a dream?

[Darlene DIllow]

Just letting you know what she herself actually said (in game) about their race....

So the theory that you are subscribing to is that Shep is still on Earth and that the entire third game is a dream?

Wut? No. When Harbinger's ray almost kills you, Shep falls to the ground (rubble). Around then is where I believe the attempted indoctrination begins. If you choose Destroy, thus breaking free, you wake up on rubble. In the others you die (or in this theory become indoctrinated).

[Charlie Ramsden]

Wut? No. When Harbinger's ray almost kills you, Shep falls to the ground (rubble). Around then is where I believe the attempted indoctrination begins. If you choose Destroy, thus breaking free, you wake up on rubble. In the others you die (or in this theory become indoctrinated).

Then what was that about the London Rubble?

My theory is that the Old Man wasn't there for the ending and he made it up for the kid. With that little "epilogue" in mind all three games could be a "story" made up by the Old Man, but I don't think Bioware is that dumb.

[Alyesha Neufeld]

Wut? No. When Harbinger's ray almost kills you, Shep falls to the ground (rubble). Around then is where I believe the attempted indoctrination begins. If you choose Destroy, thus breaking free, you wake up on rubble. In the others you die (or in this theory become indoctrinated).

I don't really know what to believe. Parts of the indoctrination theory make sense, but in the event that there *is* an alternate ending DLC, I don't think Bioware would punish people for choosing the "good" options (meaning not committing genocide on the Geth, assuming you saved them)

[emily grieve]

Then what was that about the London Rubble?

My theory is that the Old Man wasn't there for the ending and he made it up for the kid. With that little "epilogue" in mind all three games could be a "story" made up by the Old Man, but I don't think Bioware is that dumb.

The final mission is in London, is it not?
And that would be a terrible ending.

I don't really know what to believe. Parts of the indoctrination theory make sense, but in the event that there *is* an alternate ending DLC, I don't think Bioware would punish people for choosing the "good" options (meaning not committing genocide on the Geth, assuming you saved them)

Well, it seems to me that the Catalyst was lying. As I stated in my post about the Indoc theory, I think the Catalyst tried to make the Destroy choice completely irredeemable as an attempt to encourage you to choose one of the other two. He also says that Shep will die, but it's the only ending where he lives.

[Adrian Powers]

The final mission is in London, is it not?
And that would be a terrible ending.

Yeah, I read that wrong.

And yeah, it is would be a horible ending....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E

[Kim Bradley]

My biggest gripe with the Indoc theory is the Mass Relays imploding and the Buzz Aldrin. If it is a hallucination as I believe, what makes Shep think the Mass Relays explode? Perhaps because they're the most important elements of Galactic Society, and s/he thinks of it as metaphor (wrong word) for sacrifice.

[Michelle Smith]

So yeah, I along with a lot of fans believe the ending is played out in Shep's mind. That is why you awake on a load of rubble seemingly after being blown to [censored] by Harbinger if you choose Destroy, thus breaking the indoctrination. Brilliant, if it's true. I still have problems with it because there is a complete lack of closure and it cuts off the real [censored] end, presumably for DLC which is hilariously greedy.

It's still poorly written as it wrestles away almost all player control. I can pick from three potential endings, but I have no ability to further interrogate this strange, new character? If I could challenge his claims based on things I'd done/learned throughout all three games, either fully exposing the plot or at least gathering clues, it might have worked. As it is, you're simply spoon fed information and forced to accept it.

Oh yeah, and you're wearing armour as you sketch for the Conduit yet when you "wake up" you're wearing your casual attire. I'm not terribly articulate, look it up.

You are? I was still wearing my melted armor.

We can't know the Reapers' reasoning. Rather than having me try to convince you why they would indoctrinate Shepard, why don't you try to convince me about all the plotholes at the Citadel? Or why destroying the Reapers is the only option wherein Shepard survives, seemingly on the rubble of London? This one issue with Harbinger having no reason to control Shep surely doesn't disprove the entire theory to you?

The fact that you see the ending cutscene with the relays destroyed, and Joker trying to outrun the blast and crashing on some unknown planet would seem to throw that out the window. If it was indoctrination, choosing to reject the Reapers should end the spell right then and there. Why would choosing destroy result in visions that the Reapers dying and then totally nonsensical Normandy scenes? Wouldn't you simply wake up or lose consciousness?

EDIT: Looks like you ninja'd me a bit on that last point. The Reaper death scene, I could see as being a hallucination brought on by the perception of victory. The Joker/Normandy scene is way too out there to be ascribed to anything, though.

[Eibe Novy]

It's still poorly written as it wrestles away almost all player control. I can pick from three potential endings, but I have no ability to further interrogate this strange, new character? If I could challenge his claims based on things I'd done/learned throughout all three games, either fully exposing the plot or at least gathering clues, it might have worked. As it is, you're simply spoon fed information and forced to accept it.

You are? I was still wearing my melted armor.

Indoctrination is supposed to be a subtle process. Do you think the Illusive Man and Saren would have succumbed to it if it were obvious? I can't speak for the Catalyst and being able to question it, that's bad writing either way.

Sorry about the melted armour. I just assumed it was casual attire because it looked like the armoured vest my Shep was wearing.

The fact that you see the ending cutscene with the relays destroyed, and Joker trying to outrun the blast and crashing on some unknown planet would seem to throw that out the window. If it was indoctrination, choosing to reject the Reapers should end the spell right then and there. Why would choosing destroy result in visions that the Reapers dying and then totally nonsensical Normandy scenes? Wouldn't you simply wake up or lose consciousness?

EDIT: Looks like you ninja'd me a bit on that last point. The Reaper death scene, I could see as being a hallucination brought on by the perception of victory. The Joker/Normandy scene is way too out there to be ascribed to anything, though.

It still makes more sense than if you take them literally. There are more glaring plot holes in the Citadel than there are with the Indroc hallucination. Perhaps the Joker/Normady was Shep's way of envisioning his crew being safe despite the sacrifice (the Mass Relays)? As I have said, they left it purposely extremely vague, so everything is essentially speculation. It actually makes more sense than Joker ditching Shep and your companions who were with you before the Conduit run having teleported to the Normady. He would have to have fled before the explosion was even set off as well, to even get to the Mass Relay.

I just think the Indroc Theory fits so well.

[Ownie Zuliana]

Indoctrination is supposed to be a subtle process. Do you think the Illusive Man and Saren would have succumbed to it if it were obvious? I can't speak for the Catalyst and being able to question it, that's bad writing either way.

This should make my point for me. Both Saren and the Illusive Man, through dialogue, are able to realize they've been indoctrinated. The steps leading up to it may have been fuzzy, but the idea that once you're there, nothing can snap you out of it is proved incorrect. Couple that with the fact that Shepard no doubt has far stronger mental faculties than either of them, and Shepard should be even more likely to break the spell. I mean, Shepard's whole thing is that his sheer force of will is practically immeasurable.

It still makes more sense than if you take them literally. There are more glaring plot holes in the Citadel than there are with the Indroc hallucination. Perhaps the Joker/Normady was Shep's way of envisioning his crew being safe despite the sacrifice (the Mass Relays)? As I have said, they left it purposely extremely vague, so everything is essentially speculation. It actually makes more sense than Joker ditching Shep and your companions who were with you before the Conduit run having teleported to the Normady. He would have to have fled before the explosion was even set off as well, to even get to the Mass Relay.

I just think the Indroc Theory fits so well.

My point is it doesn't matter what in-universe explanation makes the most sense when poor writing and rushed development covers things far better. The fact that there's so many off-the-wall weird moments that are just written off as, "Well, they are just weird 'cause indoctrination," should show that. Having unexplainable events doesn't mean there was some grand plot idea, it just means they (the writers and developers) butchered the ending.

[Petr Jordy Zugar]

http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

I was hoping for something like this, not exactly this, but something like it.

It strikes me as odd that they would do it the way they did when all they really had to do (and what I think a lot of people were expecting them to do) was do more like the ME2 suicide mission, where gathering allies and reenforcing their resolve in your cause determined how much of the galaxy was saved. It would have been almost exactly like ME2 only on a galactic army scale.

Holy [censored], now that would have been a worthwhile ending.

God, it seems anyone on the internet can create a better ending then Bioware. Depressing.

[Rachyroo]

Holy [censored], now that would have been a worthwhile ending.

God, it seems anyone on the internet can create a better ending then Bioware. Depressing.

I meant to comment on that myself. It does seem a little strange. The war assets, the galaxy map with different sectors, the fact that passed games had choices manifest in more tangible ways. I would have expected a more hands-on approach to the final battle (or the war at large). Being able to commit war assets to completing certain tasks resulting in easier victories or more difficult fights. Sacrificing one asset to save another. But none of that happened. I never got the feeling that anything too terrible ever happened because I don't really give a [censored] about any one particular asset and they never make any tangible positive or negative contributions to the actual challenges you face.

[Tarka]

I meant to comment on that myself. It does seem a little strange...

Considering that they hadn't settled on an ending 4 months prior to the game's release, I'm not surprised. "Planned" trilogy my [censored]. They were making it up all along.

Here's the thing. Storywise? ME1, you expect to be genius. It's not bad. ME2, meh. You now know where Bioware is coming from: they play it safe, use cliches so that as few people as possible are surprised/turned off/offended. Great. So it's a popcorn game. I can deal with that. I can safely bet that ME3 will be more of the same, because why would they pull the rug out from under you at that point? ME3, svcks vomit. The ending is total [censored].

I think if they hadn't played it so safe with 1 and 2, there'd be a lot less anger right now. But once you've set the tone, you've got to keep going with it. It's like they decided to slice a little bit of Alien into Independence Day at the last minute. It just doesn't work. They're totally different movies.

That's amateur, amateur writing. Like, really bad. 12-year-old-decides-to-join-a-creative-writing-class bad.

[Roberta Obrien]

Considering that they hadn't settled on an ending 4 months prior to the game's release, I'm not surprised. "Planned" trilogy my [censored]. They were making it up all along.

Here's the thing. Storywise? ME1, you expect to be genius. It's not bad. ME2, meh. You now know where Bioware is coming from: they play it safe, use cliches so that as few people as possible are surprised/turned off/offended. Great. So it's a popcorn game. I can deal with that. I can safely bet that ME3 will be more of the same, because why would they pull the rug out from under you at that point? ME3, svcks vomit. The tone of the ending is total [censored].

I think if they hadn't played it so safe with 1 and 2, there'd be a lot less anger right now. But once you've set the tone, you've got to keep going with it. It's like they decided to slice a little bit of Alien into Independence Day at the last minute. It just doesn't work. They're totally different movies.

That's amateur, amateur writing. Like, really bad. 12-year-old-decides-to-join-a-creative-writing-class bad.

I'm not sure if you're talking about each game's ending or just the games in general. Story-wise, I really think Mass Effect 3 is the best of the lot. There's more intrigue, you're building alliances. Politics, right? Even if Shepard's political maneuvers still center around, "Who do I have to shoot to get things done?" The first game was typical RPG fare. The second focused primarily on companions, and the main plot suffered for it. I mean, I thought the ending to Mass Effect 2 was stupid also. A giant terminator is lame, and there didn't actually seem to be any progression. What had I gained beyond temporarily stalling the Reaper invasion? It was a poorly managed second act. Still, I could understand the ending even if it was dumb. Mass Effect 3, I thought, had a pretty fantastic run up until the very end.

EDIT: I agree with you in general, though. The suggestion that the ending is good because it avoids a straightforward answer is bogus. First of all, it plays out exactly as if it were giving you a straightforward answer. The kid spells everything out. He just doesn't make any sense. Second, Mass Effect is generally a very straightforward game. You're a space marine saving the galaxy from an ancient evil. There's not much ambiguity here.