Since reinstalling the game has helped me out with patch 1.2, I've been able to try the sniper a bit more now. I still feel it's a pretty usable weapon and is nowhere near "terrible" for distant sniping, but for my tastes they took it a wee bit too far. Guess it's something else I'll have to mod a bit. Thinking about putting the damage at 50 and crit. multiplier at 2 and see how that feels.

From what I've come to understand (As I have no patches) I hear most enemy headshots either they survive or they barely dent the enemy if they are a high powered enemy. I think Obsidian mistook 'fix this' as meaning 'please nerf the hell out of this weapon'

How many actually just take the sniper for the silencer?

A 10mm is of more use for the assassin build, a 12.7 can be silenced for high DT critters, I've yet to be taken down by a deathclaw just becuase I've used a non silenced gun or not tagged sneak.
Most of my kills have been stood up or single crouch to take aim, at long ranges.
I play on normal true but have found a silencer only of use to take out guards and faction members.

Sorry I'm not trying to flame, I'm really curious as how many would complain if the sniper did not have that mod, and was nerfed.

I don't play an assassin build. I play the stealthy agent role. Enter Vault 3? Disguise myself or bluff my way in, then I sneak around executing them with my 10mm pistol. Enter Cottonwood Cove? I slip down the cliff from the overlook, stay in place, then pick off the Legion one by one.

But in general, if I'm assaulting, I prefer a 10mm submachine gun or the hunting shotgun, but from far away, I prefer a stealh kill over a detectable loud kill.

The sniper rifle doesn't need a crit boost higher than any other guns (i.e. 1x). The reason being that if you are actually using it as a sniper rifle, the critical hits are built in because you'll be sneaking when you take the shot. People do realize that one of the most important tools of a sniper is stealth, right?

I don't feel that the sniper rifle is underpowered at all. It still does what it's designed to do. If you can't one-shot super mutants and deathclaws anymore, it's because you're using the wrong gun: buy an AMR. You do not expect to one-shot the toughest enemies in the game with a Trail Carbine (mid-range lever action rifle), why should you be able to do it with the sniper rifle (mid-range sniper weapon).

Agreed. It's starting to get old how the "hardcoe uber l33t" types seem hell-bent on forcing thier masochistic vision of what Fallout games should be like on the rest of us. What's worse is they're the ones getting the fanservice as weapons, items, perks, and even companions get nerfed to appease them.

I don't care about 1-shotting deathclaws with it...I rarely did that to begin with simply because I don't use VATS and it's hard to get such crits when you're backpedaling like mad after the first crouched-shot. lol
But in terms of the super-long, no-VATS, they-no-see-u type sniper shots, I want to be able to down them in at least a few hits, assuming I hit them to begin with. From that distance even with the scope it's hard to sometimes get the hits because they're very tiny in the scope and moving all over the place, and you're just hoping you can track with them as you go.

For me, it's a little underpowered because I don't use VATS. If you use VATS, maybe that's not the case. It's possible that lowering the damage even further but raising the crit. chance back to 3 or so might even work better for what I want. It'll take some fiddling for me to figure out what suits my playstyle.

Edit:In case anyone misundestands me...I'm not saying I want to be able to run & gun w/the sniper. What I'm saying is that from a vast distance I rarely get 1-shot headshot kills cause I usually end up hitting an arm or leg & even with a sneak critical, on Very Hard (where my Sniper is reduced by half of that now-lowered 42, I believe), the damage to the enemy is not what I think is enough.

And the rest of you seem to be trying to force your cuddly carebear "I have to be able to kill all at all times" bullsh*t on others, and get it by default. :shrug:

I don't see what is wrong with the sniper rifle now. It seems to be working nicely enough, oneshotting things and all. The game is so easy even on hard difficulty, that putting it on very easy (with the crappy HP/DMG scaling difficultyslider) should do the job at making the game easy enough (and the sniper rifle powerful enough) even for a onearmed 3-year-old - so I don't really see what this fuss is about.

The solution (for this game anyway) would be for everyone to buy the game on a PC, so they can mod it however they want! :whistling:

...yeayea, I know...it's a console world now. I'm just joking.

That would only change the nature of there complaints.

VATS is horrible and stupid for sniping, since it assigns a chance to hit based on distance rather than on weapon accuracy. I don't think anybody could seriously make an argument for VATS as a valid means to take sniping shots: free-aiming, you are much MUCH more accurate.

(Which is strange in itself, but moving on)

It sounds to me like you are engaging enemies from *too* far away, if you can't reliably score a head shot. Either beyond your ability to track the target, or beyond the accuracy of the rifle itself (sniper rifle is highly accurate but not pixel perfect). I don't know how that can be resolved other than to move in closer. I don't play on very hard difficulty level, so maybe some of your issues can be chalked up to that, but at normal difficulty even if you don't hit them in the head a sneak attack to the arm or leg hit will cripple almost any human enemy. If you're not seeing *any* appreciable effect on target, well, it's Very Hard's fault. <_<

If you want to one shot enemies then don't play on very hard.

The problem with the sniper rifle was simply that it was outdoing non sniper rifles in non sniper rifle duties as well as performing far too close to the amr.

As for energy weapons the problem was far too many of them were performing poorly. This isnt the case now BUT some weapons just dont fit well where they are.. examples.. the rcw prolly needs to be a 75 skill weapon.. MAYBE with a slight uptweak or it needs to have its rate of fire downtweaked or its damage needs to be lowered and its ammo cap increased and its mod tweaked to provide more free shots. Its too good a weapon where it is because yes it is 25 skill hihhjer then a laser rifle its firing far faster and doing too close to it in damage per shot and each of its shots is vastly cheaper and lighter.. thats too many pluses.. or too mnay negates anyway you look at its somethings too far off there.

I guess my post was TLDR for you, since I specifically said in the very first sentence that I didn't care about 1-shotting.


Yes, it is Very Hard's "fault"...or more specifically, the way difficulty slider is done. I agree it's probably just fine on Normal. But some of us like to play on VH (because Normal is no challenge whatsoever even with lower end weapons), and imo changes should be at least somewhat balanced for all those difficulties. I realize because of the way the difficulty increase works that this may not be possible, hence my talking about modding it myself. Even before the sniper-nerf a sneak-crit to a limb was not always an auto-cripple on VH. At least it wasn't for me.

Was it too powerful even in VeryHard, overall, tho, before? Yes. It's just a tiny bit too much the other direction now.

I just had a play around with the sr for the first time since the patch. I see no problem with it. I was a little worried it was going to get over-nerfed, but I can still one-shot the numerous enemies like fiends, as they are the reason I have my sniper rifle as they can easily overwhelm a player (More Fiends mod) so sniping the majority from a distance then mopping up the rest is how I prefer to do things. Sniper Rifle still does this, easy as. I haven't tried it on Deathclaws yet though, but for that there is indeed the AMR.

Boo-frikkety-hoo....if gamesas put out a game that would satisfy you soi-disant hardcoe types, it'd be the best game no-body heard of like Sniper Elite.....and it'd sell so poorly we'd never get a sequel. We're not the ones demanding things be nerfed or removed from the game because they offend our sense of uberness....try exercising some self-control and not using them rather than insisting they be taken from the rest of us, too.

dup....deleted.

XD

nice sarcasm detection there. Plus So you like that games today are dumbed down for the lowest denominator in the "main stream"?

This. It is becoming so tiresome to see the arrogance of people berating other people because the other person doesn't play the game the way they consider it should be played. If you pick up the most powerful weapons in the game, and use them, don't carry on about them being overpowered. It's beyond stupid.

Don't like powerful weapons... don't use them. It's not rocket science.

^{Disclaimer: I felt the sniper rifle was overpowered before, and could have done with a tweak. Unfortunately, it was tweaked with a Super Sledge.}

I'm not a "hardcoe" type. I play very games very little these days. It's not an impossible game people are asking. Sense of uberness? No, no, no. An enjoyable experience that leaves a sense of accomplishment and doesn't require selfimposed rules, yes. No you're not demanding things to be nerfed, but it sounds like you're demanding constant backpatting, handholding and playercuddling and that other people need to gimp themselfs because you can't play the game unless it carries you to the goal in a kings chair. Why don't you practice some selfcontrol and take the what little challenge the game offers by the horns and outmatch it instead of giving up instantly after a problem occurs --- or just set the difficulty lower.

Why would a challenging game sell less (and nobody is asking for a game in which the difficulty couldn't be adjusted)? Is the gaming crowd actually so declined that if everything isn't given on a silver platter and free, they get all depressed and shaky?

Anyways, all this could be fixed with a working difficultyslider and proper balancing ---- and I still don't get all the fuss about the sniper rifle.

I used the sniper for a while both pre and post patch, I felt it was overpowered due to it being a mid level gun capable of one shoting end game enemies and though that it was crossing over into the 50 cals role. Post patch I think they defined it role it replaces the varmit rifle and is meant to be replaced by the 50 cal towards the end of the game. I don't think they reduced the snipers damage because sniping was overpowered but merely because the weapon was extending beyond its role as a mid tier weapon.

Sorry I know it sounded like it was a direct attack on your game style ( and made me sound like a jerk ), I found it hard to put into words the question of if the fact of its name.
"Sniper rifle", and the silencer mod was the reason most were so worried about the changes to overall damage.
I.E if the gun was just named the .308 and was a loud gun would this be as much an issue.
It's just I myself get insanely bored playing with the same weapon (s) all the time, and even though I hate high difficulty games.
If their is no risk or creative use of perks / skill I tend to want to start over from scratch than carry on, I was just curious as to if this was an issue with the gun or the idea of the gun.

@ LadyCrimson, For ages I found snipe shots at max range difficult in FO3 then again in NV, untill I switched my playstyle in NV to make it more difficult without changing the slider.

Things I learnt even standing up a max spec distance shot can hit the head 95% of the time;
It just requires timing place the center of the scope over the head and wait to the sway to form a pattern, at max skill it does not take long.
Patience is good even with a medium ranged snipe with a base sneak enemies will just be cautious, their A.I is first to head to the body of a fallen "friend".
Then they'll hang around looking, you may get detected and engaged just stay still as long as possible.
A modded hunting rifle, trail gun or better will take down most things before it reaches you if chased down as it will come from your last kills area 80% of the time.
You can then draw a AP automatic / marksman / slug loaded shottie for the big guys, and a smg for anyone else.
Take steady if you want a near automatic hit to a specific area.

Also on Cazadors just fire a few times to draw their attention, actually trying to hit one while undetected is unlikely imo, but hostile and aware their behaviour is predictable.

See this is why I have no issue with sniper rifles being changed as they allow these or other tactics to not develope.
The fact that you get a safety net with the silencer accomadates for the less power, due to the fact you don't need to deal as much damage as you'll not be taking any.
Plus some areas the npc's have a bunch of them later on, instant kills are less fun when facing them imo.

That would be the best way to go about it, but that might not be possible with the current engine (or required to much tweaking with it).


Boone was freaking nuts. When I acquired him, I could barely get a shot of before he had killed my enemies. I only kept him around for his quest, though I found his godlike damage to be quite annoying.
The Sniper might have been reduced in damage a bit too much. It certainly feels odd to have the hunting rifle do more damage.

How OP the Sniper Rifle was pre-patch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD4FX7cPzzw

I like it! I use it more now than before the patch. I hated how it just outclassed every other gun in your inventory if you used it. Cant stand the V. Hard need to put 30 rounds in a head to kill so I play on normal or hard with END 1, gimping I know, but its the only way I found. It works well as you can still die very quickly if your caught out. It gives the AMR a purpose now and the sniper with a silencer another purpose. I dont see why it should be more powerful than the hunting rifle per shot, its bolt action and the sniper is semi so that balances out the extra damage the hunting rifle does. This Machine has a fair bit of spread so that can't be used as a semi auto marksman rifle just for the extra few points of damage. It all works pretty well in my opinion.