@http://www.gamesas.com/user/611423-rambo/
What exactly do you "love" about it?
I could understand it, if smithing was really a cool feature, where you could design unique armor/weapons ... where you could combine several elements. But smithing in Skyrim is just:
Grind it, be imba.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/507218-ahglock/
No, the skill shouldn't be useless. It could for example just offer something DIFFERENT than what you could find/buy.
Or certain artefacts could be better than everything you could smith on your own, but still could be improved by smithing (so that they are still stronger than improved selfmade stuff).

I sometimes ask myself, why people here (and at Bethesda) seem to be so uncreative, when it comes to those mechanics.
The implemented mechanics are very simple ... they don't offer a lot. And because of them being overpowered they also destroy the meaning of other concepts.
Smithing, enchanting, spell creation, etc. could be so much better ... so much more interesting. They could offer unique stuff and could be combined with what you find in a way, which makes everything useful (instead of one feature ridiculously overpowering another one).

One of the main problem is the bad leveling system in TES (as explained http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1326319-dnd-and-tes/page__view__findpost__p__19956087 for example). It has proven to not work so many times now. I think it's really time to move on and finally integrate proper leveling and character development in TES. This would only improve the series.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/703891-nilecroc/
It shouldn't be nerfed? Why?
To have an in-the-game-integrated cheat?
People can still use mods, if they want to run around in god-mode. No need to integrate that BS into the game.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/455631-castozor/
Oh yeah ... sorry ... I forgot, that "real TES fans" are masochists, who play the game to train self control.
Now that's really a good argument.

You can't streamline an RPG without dumbing it down, or at least taking away a few of the aspects that actually make it an RPG.

Todd Howard said that in an interview with IGN, yet their excuse for getting rid of spell making was because it was too.. "spreadsheety". What exactly do they think a pen and paper RPG is? It's obvious that they're turning Skyrim into the exact opposite of what they said TES games should be.

I really hope Bethesda keeps its on the money and not on forum whiners or it will really screw itself. This game was a huge smash success. There's some things I would like them to do more of in the game but I recognise that choices need to be made. They have a limited budget of time and money for a game like this. Getting rid of voice acting in order to allowspell creation? Hilarious.

There are a lot of things I'd like to see added to the game but I absolutely sympathise with the choices they made.

I forgot that some people want to have games catered only to themselves, want to be forced into not making stupid decisions with lasting implications ever and don't want to go back to not being overpowered even when they have the choice to do so because they are lazy.
Really good argument to take out all options for other people because you can't be arsed to resmith some new, non overpowered weapons and armour in 5 minutes time max.

TES isn't a "hardcoe RPG" it's a Fantasy Game where you get to be who you want to be. It's purely fantastic escapism.

The game's been "Mainstream" since Arena, when it wanted to be a more accessible version of Ultima. In terms of direction the game wants to go, Skyrim's a massive step forward.



They removed spellmaking because they didn't want the players showing up the developers

A lot of tabletop RPGs disagree - Savage Worlds, for instance. Skyrim does an EXCELLENT job of re-creating the Pen-and-paper experience, especially with the random encounters, engaging dungeon design, Radiant AI, and Radiant Story. NPCs have lives, and react to your actions. I have no idea where you get a better PnP experience than what I've managed to get out of Skyrim - The only thing its missing is over-used Monty-Python jokes and pizza.



Actually, it's proven to work VERY well four times already. Your opinion, even explained (Rather pathetically) in that other thread, is a very very small minority.

Arena, mainstream? Arena was a cult hit. That alone tells you it's not mainstream, regardless of the inspiration behind it.

Uldred

Why? Many of the choices they made are [censored]. What's wrong with text based ganws. Oh No? You might actually have to read! Voice actors are hardly a necessity.

I think they need to stop cutting content, some content needs to be cut, and is pointless being in the game, but for instance why spellmaking, it was so fun, and made the game interesting when you made your own spells. I can't wait for TES VI though, only 5 skills and 1 race!

I didn`t know that. that`s sad.

Boy with this and seeing companies who once said they`d `never` go Steam, suddenly join Steam without a problem, I`m learning fast not to trust anything said from anyone in any company in any interview.

Money makes them extremely two faced or forked tongue, whichever.

You keep quoting that, yet your objection isn't any less incorrect. The amount of development in Skyrim's world, NPCs, and the quest designs replicate the PnP experience quite well, if not better. The only way to make it more like PnP is:
1. It alternates between buying you pizza and having you buy it pizza.
2. Endless semi-contextual Monty-Python quotes.
3. The game pauses in every swing as you have to argue whether it's a hit or a miss and how much you hit for, pouring over rulebooks and/or gamecode to argue your point and hope the GM agrees.

Why do the games keep getting dumbed down? Because really devoted fans could be sold a pile of [censored] mudcrabs and say that they've never played a better RPG. They encourage Bethesda to strive for mediocrity, and I believe these really devoted fans are a primary cause for the massive cutting we've seen since Daggerfall.

_{Clearly you have NO CLUE as to what TES fans are like.
Because they've seen the series since the earlier games,theyve seen all the changes,for good and for worse.
TES fans are actually some of the most demanding players out there.
So saying they're probably the primary cause behind cutting is utter nonsense.
They're the biggest opposers of mainstreaming and cutting there are,and have been dreading each time the TES games get dumbed down to mainstream audience level.}

And meykeru-sensei, yes, yes i can blame them for trying to widen there audience IF it is because they want money for its own sake, if they want to improve the game then they should try to improve the game while widen their audience but i don't think this is the case they just tried making a game they liked and missed things that others might of wanted(or even themselves if they would have thought of it).

_{Do you have any idea of how corporate business works?
The money is ALL that counts for the higher upps.
I highly doubt it was the developer's idea to push the game to 11.11.11
Such idea's come from the Public Relations/Advertisemant departments and get cleared by the Company Manager and/or Staff.
And its the developers who are pushed into getting the game done by that date.
Now it would be a glorious world where said developers could ignore or go against their bosses,and take their sweet time and all resources required to make the game how it could/should have been,but in the REAL world? You could try,but then you'd fired before you know it.
They can suggest,they can offer advice and do all they want to ensure the end result is what they'd like it to be,but in the end its always the higher upps who make the big decisions.
So blame THEM if anyone.
Theyre the ones who put a timeframe on Skyrim's release and took resources from the TES departement and used it for other game departments (wich in my opinion were a waste).}

I think they need to stop cutting content, some content needs to be cut, and is pointless being in the game, but for instance why spellmaking, it was so fun, and made the game interesting when you made your own spells. I can't wait for TES VI though, only 5 skills and 1 race!

_{Spellmaking in Oblivion was simply a slider system where to add the elemental effect,damage rating and area of effect.
It just made a bigger boom the higher it was.
But all spell effects were much simpler in Oblivion.They all looked the same,just the lighting effects were a bit defferent,mostly only the colour.
Trying to recreate a similar system for Skyrim would be terribly complex,as there are so much more custom spell effects and visuals.
If you were to create a more powerfull 'Flames' type continous flame cone spell,it would be silly,and never be accepted by the players either for that matter,if said flames did 999 damage but still looked the same as the low lvl flame spell.So that would suddenly need grapghical effect scaling to look the part.
Multiple spell combinations like in OB would require overlapping spell effects.
See where i'm going with this?
Trying to implement a spell creation system would either require more dumbing down the system,or otherwise,cause even more whining and complaints about a badly worked out spell creation system.}

Oh dear.

Closed for review.

Here's a tip for some of you to remember: It's a bloody game, not the fate of nations or the cure for cancer. Keep a little perspective when you post and when you play.

Aaaaaand you know what? I am not re-opening this. The amount of pointless condescension, snippiness, platform bashing etc., are ridiculous.

It is tough to see a game change, but being rude, self-righteous etc., about a game is pretty lame, in my humble opinion. I have been gaming a LOT longer than a lot of you. Stuff simply does not stay the same. Being a genre snob, regardless of the game genre, be it RPG, FPS, JRPG, Strategy, Adventure, is a lonely narrow place to be. If you can't discuss the shifting world of gaming these days without civility, then you need to take a good hard look at what gaming means to you.